2010 tOSU Running Backs discussion

[DaddyBigBucks]

I don't take issue with saying VY is more elusive though I don't think there's a large gap either. It's the "TP? Not so much" comment that I don't get. Compared to who? Barry Sanders or Gale Sayers?

TP may not break off long runs but he breaks so many tackles and makes so many people miss. Easily the most difficult player to tackle I've seen since Young.

TP's numbers are also skewed by the bad sacks that he (still) takes. If all he does is eliminate those, the offense improves dramatically.

 

[TheIronColonel]

TP's numbers are also skewed by the bad sacks that he (still) takes. If all he does is eliminate those, the offense improves dramatically.

If you assume that all of the sack yardage for the team falls on Pryor (not correct, but close enough in lieu of parsing the PBP data for 2 whole years; it's 23 sacks for 162 yards in 2009 and 28 sacks for 187 yards in 2008) and account for that in his rushing totals, he'd have 941 on 139 carries (6.8 ypc) and 818 on 111 carries (7.4 ypc) in 2009 and 2008, respectively.

Now, I'm sure that if you did the same for Vince Young then he'd look a lot better, too. This also isn't really fair, because arguably the ability to escape sacks is part of what makes a guy elusive.

 

[Buckskin86]

On the RB front, Carlos Hyde has recovered from an ankle injury suffered in the opener, but not enough to get him carries this week -- too much risk of re-injury. He's working on special teams, though.

-- Newcomer Rod Smith almost certainly will redshirt. He did not report until just before the season began, and with five other tailbacks on the team, there's no point in wasting him in mopup duty, Tressel said. He said at this point, "it's almost impossible for him to catch up; he's not going to catch up."

-- Tressel talked a lot about the running game, and addressed some concerns fans have about it. I don't want to get into that in detail, as I'm writing about that for Saturday's paper. But suffice to say, he is not concerned at all. "There's nothing structural or personnel-related," that he's worried about, Tressel said.

Right now, the passing game is working well and teams are still loading up to stop the run, basically. That makes for some unblocked defenders hitting backs in the backfield.

So there is no change in the backfield pecking order: Saine, followed by Dan Herron, Jordan Hall, Jaamal Berry and Hyde.

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2010/09/personnel_updates.shtml

 

[Buckskin86]

Ohio State Buckeyes backup runners should get some carries today: What to Watch
Published: Saturday, September 25, 2010
Doug Lesmerises, The Plain Dealer

1. Backup running backs

More Jaamal Berry! Ohio State's No. 4 running back, in the pecking order clearly explained by the coaches, continues to be one of the most asked about Buckeyes, with many fans wanting the freshman to get more carries.

Ohio State's top tandem, Brandon Saine and Dan Herron, hasn't put up huge numbers. Yet, it's difficult to believe that on the No. 2 team in the country, which is averaging 41 points per game, taking carries away from two fourth-year players -- one of whom [Saine] is a captain -- to give more carries to two second-year players, one of whom [Berry] missed last season with repeated hamstring injuries, is the way to go.

This isn't to criticize Jordan Hall, the No. 3 back, or Berry, both of whom have shown good moves and a nice burst during practices, scrimmages and at the ends of blowouts. And it's not to say that either Saine or Herron are on the level of former OSU stars Beanie Wells or Maurice Clarett. Saine is a good-sized back with great speed in the open field and when he has a clear hole. But he doesn't break a lot of tackles or grind out tough yards. Herron runs hard and has shown better, but not great, vision this season. But he isn't a big breakaway threat.

However, it seems too many people are swayed by Berry averaging 11.4 yards per carry on seven late runs in the blowout against Marshall and some effective kick and punt returns from both Hall and Berry.

There's more to being a running back than a little wiggle, and it's clear right now the coaches trust their veterans most when it comes to taking care of the ball and taking care of the quarterback by blocking for Terrelle Pryor on pass plays. The best way for Ohio State to get knocked out of the national title race is for someone to whiff on a block and have Pryor get injured on a hit he doesn't see coming. That part of the game is more critical than an extra juke between the tackles.

"They are not going to turn it over," OSU running backs coach Dick Tressel said of his top two backs. "You're going to have to mug them to get the football away from them. That would be the No. 1 thing. They also understand that you do what the team needs. That's not an issue for them. That really takes them to the top, and then throw in talent and they're hard to beat out."

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2010/09/ohio_state_buckeyes_backup_run.html

Ohio State football: Running game still warming up
Saturday, September 25, 2010
By Ken Gordon
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

When Brandon Saine was nailed for a 1-yard loss last Saturday, the Ohio Stadium crowd grew restless.

When he barely made it back to the line of scrimmage on the next play, one could almost hear the muttering.

Never mind that Ohio State was leading Ohio University 34-0 at the time, late in the first half. Never mind that quarterback Terrelle Pryor was in the midst of 16 straight completions and about to record his third straight 200-yard passing day.

For Buckeyes fans, the soul of the program is the team's ability to line up and pound an opponent into submission, with a tailback slashing through sizable holes opened by a dominant offensive line.

More often than not, that has not happened this season. Saine had a 100-yard day in the opener but is averaging just 52.7 yards rushing per game. Daniel Herron is averaging 45.7.

Goosed by Pryor's 165 yards, the statistics overall look fine: Ohio State is ranked 25th nationally in rushing at 206.3 yards per game.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...25/running-game-still-warming-up.html?sid=101

 

[calibuck]

You gotta love it when your #3, #4, & #5 running back puts up better yardages than your #1 & #2 backs (Saine and Herron). Plus you've got another 4* that is 'shirting (smith). Now, there's two recruits that are 4*'s (or better) as well. That's a plethora of talent. Not sure how Tress &Co are going to keep those guys all happy, maybe they believe one or two will transfer, dunno.

Hopefully one will separate themselves (hasn't really this year, methinks), and OSU can balance out the attack. Hate it when the QB has the most yardage, but what can you do. We'll either be dynamite in the 3rd and 4th quarter when the other team's DL's are whupped or ?

:gobucks3::gobucks4: Bring on SCum and their Heisman pretender.

 

[TDunk]

My first memories of OSU football was dominant RB's. And it didn't matter what string they were. There was always a bruising RB set to do damage. That's why 2003 ticked me off. If we had a decent RB we could have gone back-to-back. (RIP Dru). Now that we have an aerial attack, the RB's are being stockpiled again. Which I love, but we don't have a plethora of WR's now (With experience). I like the guys here but have no idea what they bring to the table.

It seems to be one or the other. Sorry but I want my cake and want to f**k it too. (Is that asking too much?)

 

[Meyer]

My first memories of OSU football was dominant RB's. And it didn't matter what string they were. There was always a bruising RB set to do damage. That's why 2003 ticked me off. If we had a decent RB we could have gone back-to-back. (RIP Dru). Now that we have an aerial attack, the RB's are being stockpiled again. Which I love, but we don't have a plethora of WR's now (With experience). I like the guys here but have no idea what they bring to the table.

It seems to be one or the other. Sorry but I want my cake and want to f**k it too. (Is that asking too much?)

It's not asking too much but it might be a little bit weird...

 

[buxfan4life]

I am getting a bit frustrated when I see Saine in the backfield anymore. This kid has a ton of speed and would be great off the edge, but it seems they try to pound him in the middle where he always gets hung up. He seems tentative this year, stutter-stepping himself into DL/LB and not hitting the holes with force. Don't get me wrong here, he is a great asset to have when he comes out of the backfield and catches on the run, but he just doesn't seem comfortable as a true smash mouth back that you run up the middle, yet we see that play over and over.

Boom, on the other hand, seems to be running with head of steam on every play, keeping his legs going and hitting holes quickly. Although he is not as big, he seems to cover the ball up, put his head down and try to bury the DL/LB and run right over them. IMO he should be the one we try to jam up the middle, not Saine.

As far as getting the younger guys reps, maybe a play or two here and there, but, since Boom and Saine are going to be our mainstays this year, I would like to see them utilized for what they CAN do and not what they SHOULD be able to do. Five games in and we can see who can do what in game situations. I hope to see some changes against IU next week. We will see.

 

[Elephant]

I am getting a bit frustrated when I see Saine in the backfield anymore. This kid has a ton of speed and would be great off the edge, but it seems they try to pound him in the middle where he always gets hung up. He seems tentative this year, stutter-stepping himself into DL/LB and not hitting the holes with force. Don't get me wrong here, he is a great asset to have when he comes out of the backfield and catches on the run, but he just doesn't seem comfortable as a true smash mouth back that you run up the middle, yet we see that play over and over.

Boom, on the other hand, seems to be running with head of steam on every play, keeping his legs going and hitting holes quickly. Although he is not as big, he seems to cover the ball up, put his head down and try to bury the DL/LB and run right over them. IMO he should be the one we try to jam up the middle, not Saine.

As far as getting the younger guys reps, maybe a play or two here and there, but, since Boom and Saine are going to be our mainstays this year, I would like to see them utilized for what they CAN do and not what they SHOULD be able to do. Five games in and we can see who can do what in game situations. I hope to see some changes against IU next week. We will see.

Utilized how exactly for Saine? It is not like they are asking him to do impossible runs. The guy is 220 plus pounds but runs like he is a 175 lbs. scat back. Hell we just need a back to do what boom did yesterday, which is pound the ball. Saine being named captain has caused a problem...Saine is a unique back for sure but not sure it is what this team needs right now

 

[bukIpower]

unfortunately it will take either one of two things for some of the backups to get reps... A) For Brandon to mess up on or off the field or B) a Loss.

Numbers don't lie, and neither does film so I'm just not sure why we don't give Hall and Berry a few more meaningful carries to see if he can't spark something. You don't know till you try it, and if they fumble on the first carry WHO CARES it isn't going to cost us the game. That's why you give them a shot in the 1st quarter to see if they can't get something done. What I do know is that with pryor less than 100% now, again, it will be up to the line and RB's to pick up the slack. Can Brandon do it? Maybe, but then again maybe not, and are they prepared to make the switch when the time comes.

I mean over 11 yards a carry? Give him a shot. If he messes up or goes for 1-2 yards a pop then he atleast did no worse than what our current starter has been doing for 4 weeks now. Love Brandon as a Buckeye, and his ability to catch the football but some other backs deserve some reps if he's not getting the job done.

 

[k2onprimetime]

unfortunately it will take either one of two things for some of the backups to get reps... A) For Brandon to mess up on or off the field or B) a Loss.

Numbers don't lie, and neither does film so I'm just not sure why we don't give Hall and Berry a few more meaningful carries to see if he can't spark something. You don't know till you try it, and if they fumble on the first carry WHO CARES it isn't going to cost us the game. That's why you give them a shot in the 1st quarter to see if they can't get something done. What I do know is that with pryor less than 100% now, again, it will be up to the line and RB's to pick up the slack. Can Brandon do it? Maybe, but then again maybe not, and are they prepared to make the switch when the time comes.

I mean over 11 yards a carry? Give him a shot. If he messes up or goes for 1-2 yards a pop then he atleast did no worse than what our current starter has been doing for 4 weeks now. Love Brandon as a Buckeye, and his ability to catch the football but some other backs deserve some reps if he's not getting the job done.

I agree, give Berry and Hall a chance.

 

[cbrian815]

I am not so sure what to think about our running game. It seemed when we lined up late in the 4th quarter to pound the ball.....we did well, but we tried to run our designed stuff we looked average. Honestly without a big power back our running game has never blown me away, especially after watching Alabama and their running backs. I am not so sure I would want to see our averages this year if we took away those long runs from Pryor.

Early last year we tried a lot of single back stuff that also seemed to be hit or miss, then we found something late in the year running I formation with Boren as the fullback. It seems to take awhile for us to find an identity. Without MoC or Beanie we have been an average running team, which leads me to believe we need an above average power back to be good. Pittman may have been the lone exception as he seemed more of a combo back.

We may not have a more talented Oline for awhile (losing both senior guards next year). This line is loaded with talent that should be dominating, like they did late last year. Not sure if our schemes match our talent. I could see Hall and Berry going nuts in the single back, option...misdirection this year as a change of pace and dont get me wrong I loved Boom running hard against Ill but are we really using all of our weapons to the best of their ability and attacking teams offensively?

I look for us to hit our stride again late in the year I just wonder if that is always a great idea especially with our tough road schedule and a stronger Big 10 from top to bottom. Go Bucks

 

[Bestbuck36]

It doesnt matter if Barry Sanders is our running back, that POS delayed handoff up the middle play isnt going to work. The other team has too many men to block in the middle for that slow developing play and the tried to run it with Saine 10 times it seemed on Saturday. Brandon is a better back out of the read option attack or the straight I formation and pound it in there. Herron has the vision for the slower plays but not the breakaway speed. Notice Boom's TD run, he breaks back left and jumps a fallen defender instead of pounding it in the middle. Result is always positive for him in those situations. Look where Brandon is more effective, off the edge or tackle or misdirection where he can find a lane and be gone.

Maybe Berry and Hall can pick a defense apart by "searching" the gaps in the line but when we run that slow developing right up the middle play, you can forget that being effective everytime except for it being play action.

 

[Elephant]

So its been the play calling and not Saine?

It doesnt matter if Barry Sanders is our running back, that POS delayed handoff up the middle play isnt going to work. The other team has too many men to block in the middle for that slow developing play and the tried to run it with Saine 10 times it seemed on Saturday. Brandon is a better back out of the read option attack or the straight I formation and pound it in there. Herron has the vision for the slower plays but not the breakaway speed. Notice Boom's TD run, he breaks back left and jumps a fallen defender instead of pounding it in the middle. Result is always positive for him in those situations. Look where Brandon is more effective, off the edge or tackle or misdirection where he can find a lane and be gone.

Maybe Berry and Hall can pick a defense apart by "searching" the gaps in the line but when we run that slow developing right up the middle play, you can forget that being effective everytime except for it being play action.

 

[southcampus]

Boom makes his own space but lacks the breakaway ability. Brandon can't make his own space but has breakaway ability. I don't like how in short yardage downs, the playcall is a handoff where the RB gets the ball 6 yards in the backfield not running downhill.

I still think we are going to be fine running. Maybe out of a different scheme though. I like what Saine does in the read option. We need to get him the ball in space because that's when he's dangerous. We have things to work on blocking wise also. It will be interesting to see the carries Saine gets next week.