2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

[blueinfla]

Last year UM tried a number of players at a number of positions and didn't advance the team. Instead they learned a lot of things that didn't work..but didn't seem to build on those growing pains to start zeroing in on what will work going forward. There is no reason to think they will be better next year because we didn't see any growth last season...hell in some areas they regressed as the season wore on.

It is one thing to have a [censored] season..but I would expect a good coach to be able to build on those failures..but UM doesn't seem to have done that...no benefit from the lumps they took last year..it was just a lost season. UM fans might start to disagree...but if you ask them where they will be better the list is mostly comprised of guys who haven't played yet..or guys that are going to get better..just because.

Part of the problem is that the RBs were hardly healthy. Minor was slated to start the season, but got hurt. When he came back, he played very well (5.2 Yds/carry). Also, the Oline was returning one starter? The oline definitely gelled as the season moved on, to the point that Carlos Brown ran for 100+ in his first start despite not being healthy. With the entire line coming back and the addition of 6 redshirt freshmen to the mix, a couple of which have shown a ton of ability in spring ball, there's no reason to think the UM running game won't be good.

It was tough to see any improvement in the passing game, because the QBs UM did have were inept and couldn't get the receivers the ball. Odoms was a bright spot and had the best freshman campaign in school history. UMs best receiver, Hemingway, was out for the season with an injury or illness, can't remember which it was. The one game he did play, he was a big factor in what little passing game UM had. I think it's pretty telling how bad the passing game is when you average less than one TD per game.

they had to use walk ons to fill in the two deep in spring ball.

Because 4 starters didn't participate at all, and quite a few more only played one or two series.

And the only reason they found something at RB is because McGuffie got waxed and they had to start plugging guys in.

Again, the only reason McGuffie started was because Minor and Brown were both injured. Had they both been healthy, McGuffie would have seen action much like Shaw did, which was something like 3-4 carries a game.

It looks like they are turning over their line up again

How so? To me, it looks like UM is returning 10 starters on offense. That may be true for their defense since the DC is new and a couple guys have moved positions to suit their skillset better. Like Brown to S/OLB position, Brandon Smith to OLB. Jonas Mouton progressed nicely throughout the season and should have a good year. So, UM is returning 2 of 3 LBs, 1 of 2 CBs - Cissoko had a good freshman year, Warren is healthy. The d-line will be thin, but with moving to more of a 3-4 defense, the need is lessened. Martin had a very good freshman year. The one place on defense that is a huge question mark, to me, is at safety. Yes, they are uproven. But, can they be worse than the '08 starters? That would be a pretty difficult task.

 

[calibuck]

A couple of observations......what you've seen (all that doesn't work) is what the NEXT coach will focus on, and ergo, be successful. This is the anti-John Wooden, Bear Bryant, Ara Parseghian, Woody Hayes (following a legend is a disaster) issue (following a disaster is a blessing). After RR, the only place for Michigan football to go is up...........

Second, the new recruit will be the new LT. Why, because while his size is perfect (5' 8" and 160 lbs), his voice is even better......."Here he comes" is important to yell to your QB once your man has beaten you.......

:gobucks3::gobucks4: And SCUM still :scum4:

 

[jwinslow]

Part of the problem is that the RBs were hardly healthy. Minor was slated to start the season, but got hurt. When he came back, he played very well (5.2 Yds/carry).

Brandon's approach to the game cost him as much PT as anything. He was the poster boy for "not buying in".

Odoms was a bright spot and had the best freshman campaign in school history.

Odoms was solid, but he should catch at least one TD before hailing him as the best. Besides the fact that most of his passes were basically horizontal running plays... he only racked up 443 yards and ZERO touchdowns. Mario had 443 yds & 6 tds and had a huge catch to beat PSU.

UMs best receiver, Hemingway, was out for the season with an injury or illness, can't remember which it was.

When did Junior become UM's best receiver? He's been hurt for most of his career here, and is more of an old UM type WR. He doesn't have the potential of Stonum or the craftiness of Odoms imo... and that trend will only continue when Stokes arrives and if Gallon qualifies

Again, the only reason McGuffie started was because Minor and Brown were both injured.

Not really. Freddy also liked Sam a lot more.

Jonas Mouton progressed nicely throughout the season and should have a good year.

Agree to disagree there.

So, UM is returning 2 of 3 LBs, 1 of 2 CBs - Cissoko had a good freshman year, Warren is healthy.

Cissoko showed potential. He also showed a ton of mistakes. Now that he can't come off the bench, will those gambles cost UM?

The d-line will be thin, but with moving to more of a 3-4 defense, the need is lessened. Martin had a very good freshman year.

Yes he did, as a 4-3 DT. We'll see how he does as a nose, which was a potential position move that concerned him in Dec 07 when RR was hired.

The one place on defense that is a huge question mark, to me, is at safety. Yes, they are uproven. But, can they be worse than the '08 starters? That would be a pretty difficult task.

Not really. That's what folks said after Barringer/Englemon, and they continued to stink. Vlad, Williams & Woolfolk all have certain limitations at this point, and none are the athlete that Stevie Brown was. They also have little to no experience. Now if Justin Turner gets back there, it's a different story. I still see a talent problem at safety in 2009. That should change next year, with Robinson, a more seasoned Turner (and more bodies at CB to let him move to S), etc.

 

[buckeyemania11]

Rich Rod is pretty much a one trick pony

if the Zone Read option is not working he is like a fish out of water (see the Pitt WV game that knocked WV out of the national title game for best example)

 

[jwinslow]

Going into signing day, RB coach Fred Jackson was telling folks privately that he thought McGuffie might start, even before he got on campus. This confused me, given Minor's more prototypical skillset and size. This was even harder to fathom when McGuffie proved he had no business doing anything but redshirting, given his size and inability to face contact without turning and cowering. He was at best the third most promising back on roster, shaw was inconsistent at times, but showed a lot more natural talent and production at the position.

It made more sense as the season wore on and the backstory on minor came out, about his attitude and off-field conduct costing him PT.

RB is definitely a position of strength going into the season, but UM has to prove they can keep teams honest downfield or Tate & Minor/RBs will face stacked boxes all season long.

 

[Oh8ch]

Talking to one of my friends today and he asked a question I was unable to answer.

Does anyone know if Michigan still sucks?

 

[HINYG8]

Because 4 starters didn't participate at all, and quite a few more only played one or two series.

Doesn't change my quesiton...actually confirms my point.

Again, the only reason McGuffie started was because Minor and Brown were both injured. Had they both been healthy, McGuffie would have seen action much like Shaw did, which was something like 3-4 carries a game.

How so? To me, it looks like UM is returning 10 starters on offense. That may be true for their defense since the DC is new and a couple guys have moved positions to suit their skillset better. Like Brown to S/OLB position, Brandon Smith to OLB. Jonas Mouton progressed nicely throughout the season and should have a good year. So, UM is returning 2 of 3 LBs, 1 of 2 CBs - Cissoko had a good freshman year, Warren is healthy. The d-line will be thin, but with moving to more of a 3-4 defense, the need is lessened. Martin had a very good freshman year. The one place on defense that is a huge question mark, to me, is at safety. Yes, they are uproven. But, can they be worse than the '08 starters? That would be a pretty difficult task.

Not buying your Mcguffie excuses..read too much from too many about how awesome he was and how the B10 wouldn't have an answer for his quicks He was an internet and camp superstar..I think he was going to play..and likely start just about no matter who was healthy. Esp. given all the fumbles from the other backs early on.

Am I the only person that thinks switching to a 3-4 actually puts *more* pressure to perform on the DL? Certainly the center......I think being thin at the DL is a bigger problem with the 3-4. If DL play is a weakness..switching to a 3-4 won't help..but it might kill you. OSU is only looking at it because we have the horses (both the talent and the depth) to stay fresh and effective with only 3 with a hand in the dirt. We also have an abundance of LBers and a few that can put their hand down and be effective on the edge....I don't see the talent at the second level for UM to say the same..and I don't see the LBers needed to plug what the 3 man front can't handle. I think you are in deep shit if you go 3-4.....no depth...limited experience and not a ton of clear talent.

Everything else you said is full of *shoulds* and *mights*....nothing firm there.

Color me unimpressed with Mouton and his spring sounds less than good.

Cissko showed flashes...of both talent and bad decisions...we will see if that gets corrected. He is but one player in a secondary that looked over matched even against bad teams.

I won't even comment on your safety play..except to say there is no reason to think it improves by getting less experienced. You may be more athletic..but that doesn't mean you will be more productive. You were bad their last year..now you are young too.

Your D looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Maybe RR will surprise me and you guys will be lights on on D like UM used to be..but for the life of me I don't see the recruits or the game plan that makes me think I am going to be shocked by the UM D...unless you consider giving up a TON of points shocking.

 

[jwinslow]

Am I the only person that thinks switching to a 3-4 actually puts *more* pressure to perform on the DL? Certainly the center......I think being thin at the DL is a bigger problem with the 3-4. If DL play is a weakness..switching to a 3-4 won't help..but it might kill you. OSU is only looking at it because we have the horses (both the talent and the depth) to stay fresh and effective with only 3 with a hand in the dirt. We also have an abundance of LBers and a few that can put their hand down and be effective on the edge....I don't see the talent at the second level for UM to say the same..and I don't see the LBers needed to plug what the 3 man front can't handle. I think you are in deep shit if you go 3-4.....no depth...limited experience and not a ton of clear talent.

OSU has two DE/DT hybrids in Worthington & Heyward, both which played good football last year. Larimore is a solid nose. Moreso, Sabino & Homan are good LBs, Rolle is a human missile (if a bit undersized), and Spitler is a smart Mike (if a bit average athletically). Their versatile 4th DE/LB has established himself as a strong pass rusher in Gibson. They have excellent depth behind the DL as well, with another hybrid in Rob Rose and a promising young DE in Nate Williams.

Michigan has Graham (who is good but not as much so as he should be) outside, a youngster in Van Bergen, a good 4-3 DT playing nose. Their LB play is average. Mouton is a tweener, Ezeh is solid. Their DE/LB hybrid is not particularly strong as a lineman or linebacker, and looks to be a body filling the position until someone like Roh can grow into the position (which he'll be undersized for this fall). They have very poor depth, there isn't a single good tackle behind Martin, and no spinner to speak of yet. The ends aren't much better. Fitzgerald is a solid backup LB.

 

[HINYG8]

They have very poor depth, there isn't a single good tackle behind Martin, and no spinner to speak of yet. The ends aren't much better. Fitzgerald is a solid backup LB.

Good thing for them that they have so many DTs on their verbal list for their next class.

 

[goblue15]

Because 4 starters didn't participate at all, and quite a few more only played one or two series.

Doesn't change my quesiton...actually confirms my point.



Not buying your Mcguffie excuses..read too much from too many about how awesome he was and how the B10 wouldn't have an answer for his quicks He was an internet and camp superstar..I think he was going to play..and likely start just about no matter who was healthy. Esp. given all the fumbles from the other backs early on.

Am I the only person that thinks switching to a 3-4 actually puts *more* pressure to perform on the DL? Certainly the center......I think being thin at the DL is a bigger problem with the 3-4. If DL play is a weakness..switching to a 3-4 won't help..but it might kill you. OSU is only looking at it because we have the horses (both the talent and the depth) to stay fresh and effective with only 3 with a hand in the dirt. We also have an abundance of LBers and a few that can put their hand down and be effective on the edge....I don't see the talent at the second level for UM to say the same..and I don't see the LBers needed to plug what the 3 man front can't handle. I think you are in deep [censored] if you go 3-4.....no depth...limited experience and not a ton of clear talent.

Everything else you said is full of *shoulds* and *mights*....nothing firm there.

Color me unimpressed with Mouton and his spring sounds less than good.

Cissko showed flashes...of both talent and bad decisions...we will see if that gets corrected. He is but one player in a secondary that looked over matched even against bad teams.

I won't even comment on your safety play..except to say there is no reason to think it improves by getting less experienced. You may be more athletic..but that doesn't mean you will be more productive. You were bad their last year..now you are young too.

Your D looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Maybe RR will surprise me and you guys will be lights on on D like UM used to be..but for the life of me I don't see the recruits or the game plan that makes me think I am going to be shocked by the UM D...unless you consider giving up a TON of points shocking.

He was hurt all spring, so I dont see how he could have gotten worse. Grob thinks he will be our best linebacker this year.

 

[DontHateOState]

They got a commit from a Jordan Paskorz today. He's a DE/LB type of player. Other significant offers were Pitt, Virginia, and Minnesota. He seems like solid "filler" type.

I do find it funny how SoJ is acting like they just out-recruited USC, OSU, UF, etc, for this kid. Comes off as very forced excitement.

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

Scout $

05/27

From GBW.com...Michigan gets verbal #11 with Jordan Paskorz joining the class.

 

[muffler dragon]

They got a commit from a Jordan Paskorz today. He's a DE/LB type of player. Other significant offers were Pitt, Virginia, and Minnesota. He seems like solid "filler" type.

I do find it funny how SoJ is acting like they just out-recruited USC, OSU, UF, etc, for this kid. Comes off as very forced excitement.

Scout $

05/27

From GBW.com...Michigan gets verbal #11 with Jordan Paskorz joining the class.

How do you find out if the recruit even visits? Does it say anywhere?

 

[heisman]

How do you find out if the recruit even visits? Does it say anywhere?

It says he hasn't taken any visits on rivals.

Jordan Paskorz - Football Recruiting

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2398

 

[Buckeye86]

Scout $

05/27

From GBW.com...Michigan gets verbal #11 with Jordan Paskorz joining the class.

at 6'4" 225 he seems too small to be a 3-4 DE (which is basically just a glorified DT in my opinion), and as a DE in high school with a listed 4.74 (listed as 4.9 on rivals) forty time you have to wonder if he has the speed or athleticism to play outside linebacker

Michigan fans (at least SoJ) are jumping for joy about getting a defensive recruit and saying that it proves that anyone who says dick rod ignores defense is a fool, but recruiting a guy who doesn't seem to fit in with the defensive scheme that you plan on running doesn't exactly prove to me that he knows what the hell he is doing on the defensive side of the ball