2009 TSUN arguments, shenanigans (not football)

[BuckeyeNation27]

So, what conference are we moving to along with Penn State and Wisconsin? I mean....that's how RR did it at his old job. I guess the Big East makes sense.

 

[mh20]

all the more reason there should have been a much larger effort to keep him in the program IMO. Well done by RR...alienate the one good QB, ignore the best remaining option and start the walk on.

First of all, who said that Rich alienated Mallett? There was a lot of chatter that Mallett had one foot out of the door since the day he stepped foot on campus.

Secondly, who is to say that he was "the one good QB" on the roster? The fact of the matter is that Mallett hadn't really proven that he was a good QB yet. He was definitely a better option than Threet or Sheridan, but it's not like he was a proven commodity.

 

[jwinslow]

Unless you define serviceable as completing 51% of your passes and throwing only 2 more TD's than INT's. Someone like Adam Weber from Minnesota or Juice Williams from Illinois is a serviceable QB.

Juice Williams threw 9 tds & 9 ints in his first year and 13 & 12 the year after that. Last year was his best year at 22 & 16. There's also the matter of his 39% completion percentage as a freshman despite a sample size of 259 throws.

At certain positions, yes I believe that Carr left the cupboard bare with his recruiting. Carr literally put all of his eggs in the Ryan Mallett basket at the QB position.

Carr did not leave it 3-9 bare. UM cannot use talent or cupboards as a legitimate excuse against Northwestern, Purdue or Toledo... and I'd make the same argument for Michigan State but to a lesser degree (b/c that wasn't as bad of a loss).

Like any football team, you live and die in the trenches.

Which is why UM better grow up in a hurry on defense. Will Campbell & Craig Roh, both of whom could use a redshirt year to improve their S&C & technique, will both be relied upon heavily. The DL is razor thin.

Secondly, who is to say that he was "the one good QB" on the roster? The fact of the matter is that Mallett hadn't really proven that he was a good QB yet. He was definitely a better option than Threet or Sheridan, but it's not like he was a proven commodity.

He could have handled Threet better, both last season and this offseason... particularly when he was one of the biggest guys fighting to get everyone headed in the right direction and on-board with RR, even when things looked bleak.

Tate will have more than enough talent around him IMO.

Threet had Minor around him last year, but RR went with the undersized freshmen RBs.

Threet had Kevin Koger last year, but the offense was designed around bubble screens to Odoms & all sorts of plays to McGuffie. They needed to use him more last year.

The running game got a lot better when it went from a 5'9 slot not picking his spots well and getting yanked down like a rag doll to a 215 lb physical back lowering his shoulder. Now some of that mistaken choice for starting RB is on Minor's shoulders, with his improper approach outside of gameday. But using him as a blocker on almost every running play made life a lot tougher on that offense.

 

[jwinslow]

Bottom line, imo RR did not inherit a team with 3-9 talent. He definitely inherited a team with problems, but to the tune of 5 or 6 losses, at worst 7.

By underachieving last fall, he has brilliantly given himself more breathing room. Now a near .500 season will be a big improvement, even though that should have been the result last year. Had he done so however, another 5 or 6 loss season would not be proof of progress.

 

[Steve19]

So what have we learned from history?

Twice RR has taken teams with a winning record and reduced them to 3 win teams and two times before he has debuted less than stellar teams. Maybe he doesn't adapt well to the personnel at hand. Maybe his gimmicky system takes time to learn.

Once his system takes hold he can have a decent winning percentage team. Glenville St was good but not a multiple national champion team like Tressel and YSU.

If he has the right qb - (Pat White / Shaun King) he will can do very well.

Tulane's competition wasn't be enough to rough up King. Pat White had a hard time staying healthy for WV in the Big East. Is it possible for that kind of QB to stay healthy in the Big Ten?

RR has played the odds with marginal recruits. Marginal recruits (tweeners/ character issues) can build mid majors. Michigan and OSU shouldn't have to settle for marginal recruits. They should be able to recruit people who are big, fast and good kids.

All in all, I love RR at scUM.

I like him there too RR does indeed appear to be unable to run anything well except "his" system. The point is that he is now in a league where everyone knows his system. He doesn't show signs of adapting well to change. +4 would still be a crummy season given their usual performance. I remain unconvinced that he can compete in the Big Ten.

 

[buckeyemania11]

If he has the right qb - (Pat White / Shaun King) he will can do very well.

who was his competition in the Conference USA? Memphis? Southern Mississippi? East Carolina? Houston?

who was his competition in the Big East? Rutgers? Pitt? Louisville? Cincinnati?

I think Ohio State Penn State Wisconsin Michigan State Iowa Illinois and even Minnesota and Northwestern now are a much tougher task than facing Pitt and Rutgers types week in and week out

 

[Jaxbuck]

Someone like Adam Weber from Minnesota or Juice Williams from Illinois is a serviceable QB.

If thats your idea of merely sevicible and you think Tater Tot is going to be more than servicible as a true freshman I'd say you are setting yourself up for dissapointment.


Webber as a R-FR accounted for 3512 yds of total offense and 29 TD's. Not in your wettest of dreams will the Tot approach those numbers.

Williams as a true FR accounted for 2065 yds and 11 TD's and played in all 12 games. Tater Tot may be able to have a stat line similar to that IF he stays healthy. Problem is thats roughly the same production you guys got out of the QB spot last year.

 

[zwem]

There was no "slow decline"...take away the one magical season in '97, and he was pretty mediocre across the board.

Yep. The 99 and 03 Michigan teams had alot of talent and I thought they underachieved in those seasons......... but as always Michigan loses those games they aren't suppose to lose. The 05 Michigan team had 5 loses all by a combined 21 points with their biggest loss only 7 points. 2005 was probably the worst year as far as me when it comes to Michigan football. There wasn't a slow decline. Michigan just couldn't win the close ones.

 

[smithlabs]

Originally posted on the Henderson recruiting thread

That's exactly right, which is mildly annoying, as Michigan has won its fair share of battles against USC just as they've lost them. They've taken Rojo and Nick Perry, we've taken Warren, Schilling and Mouton. Nobody remembers those though, because USC is on a different planet than everybody else and is barely phased when they lose star recruits, even from their own backyard.

There are some Michigan fans who legitimately hate USC more than Ohio State, all because of Ronald Johnson. He was a UM "lock" for more than a year, UM was the only school to stick with him when he tore his knee up, and he was a "silent" commitment before his senior year of HS, and then he mysteriously goes silent when he returns from USC. The mods at both The Fort and GBW essentially said (without directly saying it), "they paid his mom."

Which reminds me...that is a factor in Henderson's recruitment, too. If the NCAA brings the reaper to USC before NSD 2010 (yeah, like that'll ever happen), there is almost no chance 'Trel goes there. The Henderson camp is very concerned about the allegations surrounding that program.




This is also correct, and I doubt that changes at any point. Unless Pride shows great skill playing a different position (skill he has not shown up to this point), there won't be any room for him at Michigan, because we've got our two QBs for this class. Even if guys like Drake and Dileo get a slight...nudge...that directs them to other schools, it would be for more prominent recruits. UM has to be very selective from here on out...the only possible way I could see Pride getting a scholarship would be if some of the big guys UM is after now go off the board elsewhere and there are extra slots open around signing day. Even then, UM would probably bank the scholarship for next year. And these "package deals" almost never pan out. Michigan fans heard Jonas Gray and Kenny Demens say for months that they were a package deal, right up until the point that Gray committed to Nebraska and Demens to Michigan a month later.

Which is to say-

blah blah blah blah...the only possible way I could see Pride getting a scholarship would be if some of the big guys UM is after now go off the board elsewhere and there are extra slots open around signing day. blah blah blah

I feel there is a joke in here some where....

 

[PlanetFrnd]

The joke was funny the first thousand times. The next thousand, not so much. Pretty old by now. But, I'm sure that won't stop you. Keep up the comedic act, it never gets old to anyone. New material is overrated.

You're constitution for things numbering in the low thousands is weak.

 

[Mike80]

The joke was funny the first thousand times. The next thousand, not so much. Pretty old by now. But, I'm sure that won't stop you. Keep up the comedic act, it never gets old to anyone. New material is overrated.

Here's one I'm sure you never get tired of....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8bzZEtOcb8]YouTube - Chad Henne is a Joke[/ame]

 

[NFBuck]

At certain positions, yes I believe that Carr left the cupboard bare with his recruiting. Carr literally put all of his eggs in the Ryan Mallett basket at the QB position.

Well, that's what happens at most places (aside from USC who can pick and chose their QB seemingly at will) when you get a supposed blue chip QB prospect. It was um's administration that chose to hire a coach that brought on a radical philosophical shift on offense. The Carr excuse is almost as comical as the Willingham excuse. If DickRod wasn't a one trick pony, Mallet likely stays and um goes 7-5 at worst last season. At worst he runs an offense built around Threet's skill set (read: ball control) and utilizes Minor and Grady better resulting in maybe a 6-6 season at worst. The other big issue was his comically bad handling of the defense which was supposed to be a strength. I know the offense put them in a bad position, but an offense tapered to the skills of the players he has would have helped greatly.

He could have slowly introduced his system, which most coaches do (see Urban) until he got the personnel he needed, but he decided to try to pound square pegs into round holes. It was glorious.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Here's one I'm sure you never get tired of....

YouTube - Chad Henne is a Joke

I'm not usually one for sentemental sappy folk music but I have to admit that one chokes me up every time.

 

[blueinfla]

Yep. The 99 and 03 Michigan teams had alot of talent and I thought they underachieved in those seasons......... but as always Michigan loses those games they aren't suppose to lose. The 05 Michigan team had 5 loses all by a combined 21 points with their biggest loss only 7 points. 2005 was probably the worst year as far as me when it comes to Michigan football. There wasn't a slow decline. Michigan just couldn't win the close ones.

Lloyd ball = sitting on a 7 pt lead in the third quarter.

Don't forget to throw '07 in there too. That year was full of disappointment.

 

[schwab]

I'm not usually one for sentemental sappy folk music but I have to admit that one chokes me up every time.

Consider those sentiments echoed. If you want rep from the caveman, post videos like that. I'm a softy.