2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

[generaladm]

Didn't Ross start to have chronic turf toe type problems just prior to the 03 season? I seem to remember that he was having problems getting up to speed off his initial step, and that's what contributed to his hesitation in the backfield. In fact, I thought both he and Hall were a bit banged up going into 03, it may have been 04, I can't recall.

Either way, I think Boom filled in well when Beanie was out (>4 ypc each game), and really showed some explosiveness near the end of the season. I think the bigger issue will be what formations the offense will run this year, with Pryor as the focal point, and how Boom will adjust to any changes from last year. I imagine there will be more single back sets, but will they show big TE, or multiple WR? TP will be a threat no matter what formation, but do we have a FB that makes power sets worthwhile? I'm pretty confident Boom will be a 1000yd+ rusher, barring injury or major O-line problems. 450-650yds for Saine is not out of the question, but he needs to find his confidence again. If Saine can't produce as a #2, it could be balanced out by more designed runs for TP. Establishing a ground game from the onset would really help TP find his passing game. Boom looked like a starter while Beanie was out, consistency and durability over the season will be the big test.

 

[billmac91]

Regarding Boom, I have to say that I've happily been eating crow since the USC game, where he showed he could produce against top-flight competition.

When we first offered him, and I checked out his film, I was decidedly underwhelmed.

I was dead wrong. He shows exceptional vision, (which Ross lacked)cutting ability (which Saine lacks) and runs very hard, getting every inch out of each run.

Boom is not spectacular. He won't make your jaw drop all the time like Beanie did or the USC guys do. But he is brutally efficient. He is an OL's dream. They know that if they make even a small crease, Boom will find it and get through.

The only thing Boom has in common with Ross is that he will tear Indiana a new one. I have to agree with the comparisons to Pittman.

Mo Hall = Mo Wells, not Saine. Saine just needs to be able to make a cut without slowing down. That's the main huge difference between him and Boom. He just can't seem to change directions without chopping his steps and slowing way down. Saine is a straight-line beast that you would love to get out in the open.

in regards to Saine, I think that is where some of the optomism comes from. You'd hope the coaching staff introduces a lot of option/read option where Saine has an opportunity to get in open space.

Pryor and Saine working the option is a lot of speed on the edge...

 

[NFBuck]

in regards to Saine, I think that is where some of the optomism comes from. You'd hope the coaching staff introduces a lot of option/read option where Saine has an opportunity to get in open space.

Pryor and Saine working the option is a lot of speed on the edge...

Saine needs to develop some moves to compliment his straight line speed if he's going to be overly effective in space.

 

[pnuts34]

Yeah I agree on Saine needing somemore moves to be more effective. And sorry generaladm but I don't think that Boom's getting 1000yds. With him splitting carries with Saine and most importantly Pryor, he'll be more in the 800yd range, which isn't bad but Pryor will be 2nd in rushing more than likely. Saine seems like more of a threat in the open field, but not running between the tackles. Boom has something good going for him, and that's consistency. We know every time he gets the ball he's falling forward and he's not afraid of contact which also will wear him down throughout the season. We need for Berry and Hall to produce as the season goes on, because we honestly can't put a ton of faith in Saine staying healthy. If he does we have one of the best 1-2 tandems in CFB though!

 

[RugbyBuck]

I am excited to see the offense this year. Hopefully, JT will open the book a little and we'll see what all these guys can do. We seem to have complementary pieces at the skill spots and an improving line. Want to drop an offensive H-bomb on ScumWest.

 

[NFBuck]

Yeah I agree on Saine needing somemore moves to be more effective. And sorry generaladm but I don't think that Boom's getting 1000yds. With him splitting carries with Saine and most importantly Pryor, he'll be more in the 800yd range, which isn't bad but Pryor will be 2nd in rushing more than likely. Saine seems like more of a threat in the open field, but not running between the tackles. Boom has something good going for him, and that's consistency. We know every time he gets the ball he's falling forward and he's not afraid of contact which also will wear him down throughout the season. We need for Berry and Hall to produce as the season goes on, because we honestly can't put a ton of faith in Saine staying healthy. If he does we have one of the best 1-2 tandems in CFB though!

How many times has JT really split carries? 2004 was the only year and that was because of injuries and nobody stepping up to take the load. Herron got the load last year when Beanie was out and performed admirably. He was also dynamic filling in. I also don't get why some see Saine as more of an "open field threat". Boom had a number of big runs last year. He also appears to have deceptive speed and much better vision/toughness than Saine. I really think it's Boom's show this year with Saine being his backup. If he can stay healthy, I'd say 1,000 yards is very likely. Again, it's the durability that will be the question with him.

I'm expecting something along these lines as far as rushing yards go in '09:
Herron- 1,100
Pryor- 800
Saine- 450
Berry- 250

That would put us right around 200-210 ypg on the ground.

 

[ysubuck]

How many times has JT really split carries? 2004 was the only year and that was because of injuries and nobody stepping up to take the load. Herron got the load last year when Beanie was out and performed admirably. He was also dynamic filling in. I also don't get why some see Saine as more of an "open field threat". Boom had a number of big runs last year. He also appears to have deceptive speed and much better vision/toughness than Saine. I really think it's Boom's show this year with Saine being his backup. If he can stay healthy, I'd say 1,000 yards is very likely. Again, it's the durability that will be the question with him.

I'm expecting something along these lines as far as rushing yards go in '09:
Herron- 1,100
Pryor- 800
Saine- 450
Berry- 250

That would put us right around 200-210 ypg on the ground.

I'm honestly worried about Saine. He hasn't shown the ability to get the tough yards (I realize he's been injured). I love the comparisons between Pitt and Herron. I love Dan as a running back but whether or not he can put together a full season remains to be seen.

My questions as far as the running game go back to the same place they have gone for the last 10 years: the offensive line.

Will the O line play be improved? We think it will every year and every year we seem to be disappointed. An all american type talent at running back makes the O line look serviceable at best so how will Boom, Saine, Martin and Berry fare? That remains to be seen.

Bruce Hooley was having fun with Spielman this week on the radio because Spielman was "concerned" about Navy. Spiels stated that if the team that played against OU last season shows up (in what he described as a "pillow fight") then Navy has a shot.

Teams like OU and Northwestern made the O line look BAD last season. I'm hopeful that the attitude change that we have heard about is actually there and that the O line gives the young QB, young RBS and young WRs a shot this season.

 

[NFBuck]

I'm honestly worried about Saine. He hasn't shown the ability to get the tough yards (I realize he's been injured). I love the comparisons between Pitt and Herron. I love Dan as a running back but whether or not he can put together a full season remains to be seen.

My questions as far as the running game go back to the same place they have gone for the last 10 years: the offensive line.

Will the O line play be improved? We think it will every year and every year we seem to be disappointed. An all american type talent at running back makes the O line look serviceable at best so how will Boom, Saine, Martin and Berry fare? That remains to be seen.

Bruce Hooley was having fun with Spielman this week on the radio because Spielman was "concerned" about Navy. Spiels stated that if the team that played against OU last season shows up (in what he described as a "pillow fight") then Navy has a shot.

Teams like OU and Northwestern made the O line look BAD last season. I'm hopeful that the attitude change that we have heard about is actually there and that the O line gives the young QB, young RBS and young WRs a shot this season.

Agreed about the OL. That has been an issue for a large part of JT's tenure. Talent has been an issue the whole time too. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say this is by far the most talent the Bucks have had on the OL in a very long time. Certainly during JT's tenure. Boone had all the talent in the world, but it's clear now he had some personal demons holding him back. With that said, one big plus this season is that, as much as I hate to say it, there was probably some addition by subtraction...and not just Alex. I'd say leadership along the line has been an issue for a while now as well. With Boren and Brew, that shouldn't be an issue anymore.

The talent and depth is definately there this year. Health should be the only thing preventing a very solid, consistent rotation from being developed. Last year was a disaster with all the injuries and shuffling of positions. It prevented any consistent rotation. Hopefully that's not an issue this year. I'm cautiously optimistic going in.

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

The talent and depth is definately there this year. Health should be the only thing preventing a very solid, consistent rotation from being developed. Last year was a disaster with all the injuries and shuffling of positions. It prevented any consistent rotation. Hopefully that's not an issue this year. I'm cautiously optimistic going in.

I agree, the line was starting to show some signs of life last year, as the youngsters were just stepping up and pushing the upperclassmen, with Brew sliding into the center spot and Shuggarts pushing to start at RT, and Adams earning some pt as well, when boom the injury bug struck. If the guys can stay healthy, with quality depth to push the starters and the nasty streak that Boren, Shuggarts and Brewster bring, this could well be the best O-line at tOSU in a long time.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Bruce Hooley was having fun with Spielman this week on the radio because Spielman was "concerned" about Navy. Spiels stated that if the team that played against OU last season shows up (in what he described as a "pillow fight") then Navy has a shot.

Spiels has developed quite an affection for the service acadamies, rightfully so imo, over the years so thats part of it I'm sure. That said I think he's right only if the pillow fight breaks out again and then it would have to be gentle even by pillow fight standards. I hope I'm not just whisitling past the graveyard but I don't think we are going to get any of that 2008 "seinoritis" type stuff this year, especially early.

You guys got me thinking about my comments on Herron/Saine and I rewatched some games from last year. I guess I should have said I'm concerned about a 2003/2004-esque lack of production in the overall running game due mostly to OL play and a drop off from elite level RB talent to just "normal" talent. The comparison to Ross/Hall got the main thought off track.

The positive is obviously Pryor and if he can be such a threat as to relieve pressure. The backs are good enough to be effective if they aren't up against 9 man fronts all year.

The negative,like others have said, all gets back to the OL. I know this group is supposed to be the most talented in years etc etc but I'm just out of good will in this department. In 2002 you had Olivea and Stepanovich as the good upperclass guys and Simms/Mangold as the talented young pups with MoC running the ball and CK at QB. The OL play overall was still frustrating to say the least. How much better at this stage in their careers can we reasonably expect this years offense to be?

 

[jwinslow]

The negative,like others have said, all gets back to the OL. I know this group is supposed to be the most talented in years etc etc but I'm just out of good will in this department. In 2002 you had Olivea and Stepanovich as the good upperclass guys and Simms/Mangold as the talented young pups with MoC running the ball and CK at QB. The OL play overall was still frustrating to say the least. How much better at this stage in their careers can we reasonably expect this years offense to be?

I still don't get why you keep equating such different personnel.

Krenzel was a hero for how he finished, but his passing was mediocre and his running merely above average. 2002 was his best year statistically, at 150 ypg passing & 2.9 ypc rushing. That was his fourth year on campus. Pryor had similar numbers as a true freshman thrown out there before he was ready. His awareness, technique & understanding of the playbook all left a lot to be desired, and will certainly improve with time and experience.

Krenzel peaked at 150 ypg & 2.9 ypc. Are you expecting Pryor to stay at that level of execution?

Krenzel also had about half as much yardage and TD output on the ground as Pryor with similar total attempts.

Again, I think the comparison is a very bad one, whether it be talent, skillset, offensive system or other reasons.


OSU's offense may struggle, but I don't think the reasons why relate to a very different offense in 2002 (or 03). Pryor can keep a defense a lot more honest than Krenzel could, assuming his progression continues as a passer. OSU may struggle up front as well, I just don't think that any parallel exists.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I still don't get why you keep equating such different personnel.

Krenzel was a hero for how he finished, but his passing was mediocre and his running merely above average. 2002 was his best year statistically, at 150 ypg passing & 2.9 ypc rushing. That was his fourth year on campus. Pryor had similar numbers as a true freshman thrown out there before he was ready. His awareness, technique & understanding of the playbook all left a lot to be desired, and will certainly improve with time and experience.

Krenzel peaked at 150 ypg & 2.9 ypc. Are you expecting Pryor to stay at that level of execution?

Krenzel also had about half as much yardage and TD output on the ground as Pryor with similar total attempts.

Again, I think the comparison is a very bad one, whether it be talent, skillset, offensive system or other reasons.


OSU's offense may struggle, but I don't think the reasons why relate to a very different offense in 2002 (or 03). Pryor can keep a defense a lot more honest than Krenzel could, assuming his progression continues as a passer. OSU may struggle up front as well, I just don't think that any parallel exists.

I see 4 NFL caliber OL in 2002 and don't see how anyone can expect a whole lot more than that in 2009 especially given their ages.

I see a back in 2002 better than any we have on the roster this year and a QB who was a better game manager than TP.

I agree 100% that TP is the wildcard. He could very well become such a threat as to make the whole offense click into the gear some are expecting. I obviously hope he does and give it a better than average chance of happening.

If for some reason he does not I don't see any reason, given the past 8 years of offensive performance to draw on, that the OL and RB situation will be anything much different than a 2003/2004 type producing unit without Pryor becoming the difference maker we all hope he becomes.

 

[jwinslow]

I see a back in 2002 better than any we have on the roster this year and a QB who was a better game manager than TP.

Give Pryor a defense that routinely won games with 7-14 points of "support" from the offense, and his game management would look pretty good too. Craig was a great fit for that team, but he was also quite blessed. Even before TP fully matures as a player, passer and game manager, he still gives the defense a lot more to account for than Craig did. That's why I dislike the comparison.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Give Pryor a defense that routinely won games with 7-14 points of "support" from the offense, and his game management would look pretty good too. Craig was a great fit for that team, but he was also quite blessed. Even before TP fully matures as a player, passer and game manager, he still gives the defense a lot more to account for than Craig did. That's why I dislike the comparison.

I agree that TP gives them more to worry about than CK ever did.

The lack of that defensive support, the OL, the lack of a difference maker at RB and the youth of the WR corp are the things that make me feel anything less than a wildly successful year by Pryor leaves us with a level of offensive production many here are not even considering there to be a chance of.

I bust scUM fans balls unmercifully about pinning all their hopes to a true freshman QB. It would be dishonest of me to at not least acknowledge the fact we are in a pretty bad place ourselves if we get anything less than very very good from Pryor.

Sophmores slump, QB's get hurt, sometimes people just have bad years or aren't as good early on as fans expect them to be. These possibilities all exist, none are that far fetched and any would lead to a bad offensive team in 2009 imo.

Again I apologize for the comparisons to specific players that are distracting from my point. Poor word choices I guess.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

In a dream that I had a couple of nights ago, OSU landed the top backs from the class of '11 and '12, and the kid in '12 had 120 yards on six carries in two games. QBs are no doubt very important, but I could live with us having just a game manager and a couple of stud backs plus a stout defense.