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2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

UpNorthBuckeye;1547248; said:
yeah, I'm confused about the 5-wide formation.. I was at the Navy game, and 7 or 8 times, our 3 wideouts to one side were covered by 2 db's. Where was the quick throw??

I believe that Pryor ran out of the formation every time but one. Never passed.

Why wouldn't we want to throw the pass when we line up like that??

The defense does not need to line up directly over a WR to have him accounted for...especially in 5-wide. #1 will always be covered, #2 may be covered or have a safety sitting on the hash, but #3 is usually going to just have a LB bumped out somewhat in zone coverage...you have your deep coverage, flats player, and hook/curl player.
 
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That thinking is what you try to do to a zone formation. WR's are told to find the soft part of a zone and when they reach it sit down. When running deep routes you either have to run a streak/fade and a skinny post to play off the deep safety but again it is according to the defenses safety coverage. If it is a cover 3 zone then that only works with a WR on the backside coming into the zone or a third WR on the same side doing a deep crossing route or normal post thru the middle third.

Sanz and Posey did it well against USC on their two deep plays. Especially Sanz's play, even drew Mays over too far.
 
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UpNorthBuckeye;1547248; said:
yeah, I'm confused about the 5-wide formation.. I was at the Navy game, and 7 or 8 times, our 3 wideouts to one side were covered by 2 db's. Where was the quick throw??

I believe that Pryor ran out of the formation every time but one. Never passed.

Why wouldn't we want to throw the pass when we line up like that??

Zone coverage often disguises this to make it appear as if your receiver is open. Grad pretty much covered it.
can you beat that by running two deep routs, etc? basically put two receivers in the same defender's zone? or does that just make the D's job easier?
Depends on how good their secondary is. I think what you're referring to is known as a 'flood'.
If the safety's are two deep you can have the split receiver run a 9 route which is a fly to clear the safety, and then have the slot receiver run a 3 (which is an out).
 
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lvbuckeye;1547275; said:
can you beat that by running two deep routs, etc? basically put two receivers in the same defender's zone? or does that just make the D's job easier?

If I'm following you...you mean vert routes attacking the zone? In that case the DB stays on top and splits the difference. For instance, 4 verts vs. cover 3 the FS will split the verts from the #2s while the corners handle the #1s. Now if you mean feathering or flooding a zone, like a smash/deep out paired with a flag, then the safety has to play the flag and trust the flats player to climb the shorter route. The thing about a zone coverage is there will always be a 'soft' spot...it comes down to protection and execution from the QB
 
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MUBuck;1547406; said:
IIRC Mays came up looking bubble to Small.
I was talking more finding the soft spot than exploiting the safeties cause Posey found a similar spot on his catch.

I also thought I heard him say after that he wanted lay a big hit on the outside receiver but maybe I'm wrong.
 
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I know he's not even listed as a backup WR anymore, but when r we gonna start using Lamaar Thomas more in different formations. Our run game isn't looking too hot with pounding it out in the I with Boom, why not run more screens or end arounds for Thomas, just a thought to spice up our O! I've always seen Thomas more of a Percy Harvin type who isn't a pure WR but more of a hybrid.
 
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pnuts34;1547679; said:
I know he's not even listed as a backup WR anymore, but when r we gonna start using Lamaar Thomas more in different formations. Our run game isn't looking too hot with pounding it out in the I with Boom, why not run more screens or end arounds for Thomas, just a thought to spice up our O! I've always seen Thomas more of a Percy Harvin type who isn't a pure WR but more of a hybrid.

Yes I would love to have flash run screens but i think Tressel will probably use Jordan Hall. Just my opnion!
 
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TheIronColonel;1547683; said:
T-Wash drops out of the 2 deep, too. That kind of surprised me, but we haven't really seen much of him this year.
It would appear the drops have facilitated his drop on the depth chart. And now with Posey, Sanzo, Carter, and Small in front, I can only guess that his time is limited unless injuries occur.
 
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OSUbuckeye09;1547735; said:
Yes I would love to have flash run screens but i think Tressel will probably use Jordan Hall. Just my opnion!



Just wondering what u were basing that off of? I didn't see Hall on any screens this season, just handoffs. I have no problems with his game but I like seeing run the ball off tackle, Thomas seems like he'd be harder to bring down in space, IMO.
 
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Buckeyefrankmp;1544264; said:
Are you saying these guys were not good? From what I have been reading, these guys were considered great coming in. Here are what people were saying.

Ben Person "Ben is a great player and better yet a great kid. I think our troubles up front will be over soon enough with Ben, Mitchum, Skinner and Rehring on board and Boone on the way next year."

Steve Rehring "First off let me say that this guy is a complete bad ass.

This guy could very easily be the best offensive lineman we have had since LeChales Bentley as a Freshman. Sure he has made some freshman mistakes, but it has become clear that he is the type of player that you can run behind to get 3-4 yards a carry."

Alex Boone "After watching his films on Insiders, I was most impressed with the way he finishes blocks. His tenacity was obvious as he washed his man completely out of the hole...there were a few clips with combo blocks where you can see his footwork and technique. Kid will be a good one at the next level"


I understand that some kids can't make the progression from the High School level to the College level. I also think the coaching staff needs to look internally and see if what the coaches are doing is not helping these players develop on the next level. I would like Bollman to get replaced, although I don't think will ever happen. There was a post back in 2004 saying "What happens if Bollman is fired, or leaves, and the problems continue on the o-line?". Apparently this problem has not been fixed yet.

Buckeyefrankmp;1546798; said:
I think it is very relevant to look back and see what people were saying about them as they were coming into the program. People were not saying they were average. People were saying they looked great. These old posts are like a time capsule. We can read them and see how people were thinking at a certain point in time. Maybe we need to look at the evaluation process of these high school players. Is the coaching staff missing something since they are recruiting "average" players?

I will restate this, I do not want to see JT fired.

The evaluations you're using as evidence are message board posts. Of course people on a Buckeye message board are going to say all of these players are going to be great. We all have a vested interest (bad pun, I know) in it. Hell, when somebody on here dares to point out that an incoming player might be average you get about 100 people pounding them with the tired old "AJ Hawk was a 3-star recruit" thing. If you want to argue that the coaches have come up short in evaluating or developing talent, be my guest. Doing so by appealing to the past opinions of message board homers is not the way to do it though.
 
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I have a dream.

"Even with the best of intentions, however, we still must be willing to look at what we could do better." Jim Tressel

I have been a regular reader of BP (and the o-zone.net) for about seven years. I have been reluctant to participate in the forums because my passion for Buckeye football is so intense that I'm fearful that once I start posting, I may not be able to control my urge to be continually engaged. However, I can no longer hold it in and feel compelled to encourage constructive discussion of Coach Tressel's handling of tOSU offense.

I may not know as much about X's and O's as Grad, I certainly don't know Buckeye history like BB73, or recruiting like Wade, or statistics like DBB, I'm probably not as smart as Jeff, and I'm definitely not as funny as Kyle, but, as a husband, father, teacher and coach for over 20 years, I know something about looking at what I can do better.

Before I even start my rant, I want to thank Clarity and the others who had, and continue to have, a vision for developing and maintaining a productive community for supporters of Buckeye athletics. The mods are to be commended for their persistent effort to keep this site focused on the positive.

Permit me to make it clear at the outset that Coach Tressel stands out as one of my heroes. He gives every indication of a man who stands by his principles. He is a coach and teacher who cares about integrity and I especially admire his patience. Indeed, there is no one else I would want to run the program.

Still, I'm discouraged. I recall something he said during the presser after the Bucks got whipped by Iowa in 2004. Coach said that the game of football has changed dramatically in the last five years. The fact that he identified the dynamic nature of the sport led me to believe that he would prepare to grow with the changes he and his staff perceived.

As defenses have become more sophisticated, we have witnessed many coaches modify their offensive philosophy as well. And, for example, while I don't expect Coach Tressel to totally abandon the power running game and run a read-option offense, I do expect the coaching staff to implement a package that yields better results than what we've seen. As a math teacher, I know you can prove just about anything you want with statistics. However, there's no disguising the fact that even with the superior athletes the Buckeyes typically have, their total offense is typically below the norm.

Jim Tressel regularly refers to himself as a teacher--and rightly so. However, as I know personally, we teachers often teach the way we were taught. Indeed, Tressel's approach is more "tight" as Coach Earle Bruce would say and this can be a very good thing when you are an elite team in the Big Ten. A stingy defense, superb special teams and a conservative offense is a good recipe for beating most teams that Ohio State plays. But while this game plan nearly ensures that tOSU will not lose to a Stanford or Appy State, how often will it garner a win against a USC or Florida?


To be sure, the glass is certainly half-full. Winning your conference and beating your rival is most important. Admittedly, we Buckeye fans are currently spoiled. However, if Coach Tressel is to maintain his integrity based on his own stated principles, he is obligated to continually investigate ways to improve.

I can certainly relate. As a chaulk-and-chaulkboard type of guy who teaches the way he was taught, I have been slow to embrace technology. And though I teach content (geometry) that is older than Jesus, I have found that proper use of innovation can make me a more effective teacher. In the same way, I am simply suggesting that Coach Tressel re-evaluate his game plan on offense in the light of modern advancements.

Unlike other recent losses to Top 5 teams, the loss to USC still stings because I?m not convinced the better team of football players won. We can complain about execution, bad calls, or the fact that TP is only a sophomore, but the bottom line is that, on offense, the Buckeyes did not have an effective game plan. And if Coach Tressel believes what he preaches, then he would agree with this assessment. Consider his own words: "Remember, the fact that you didn't achieve the desired outcome doesn't mean that you are a failure. It simply means that the plan you had in place didn't work, so you have to get better."

Coach Tressel is most definitely not a failure, but his game plan on offense in big games has typically been a failure. The plan he had in place did not work. Coach Tressel says we should "never makes excuses for one's own shortcomings." And the coach is certainly entitled to lament mistakes in execution by his players, but, ultimately, when your team continually wins the field position battle, the coaches need to devise a game plan that scores more points.

So, is my lengthy post just my way of venting? Perhaps. But, I would like my contribution to serve a purpose. I want to encourage thoughtful discourse on how Coach Tressel and his staff should approach change. Now, if the results in big games have been acceptable to you within the context of overall success, or you think that Coach can do no wrong, then you probably should refrain from entering this discussion.

Take off the scarlet glasses. I want to know. What do you think Coach Tressel should do about his game plan on offense? Furthermore, I would like to work under the premise that firing Coach Tressel or Coach Bollman is unacceptable. Such talk is silly and counter-productive.

I am thinking that any measurable change will be incremental, but more than just a tweak is necessary. Let's presuppose that change is possible. Where does it start? What does it look like? I am looking for thoughtful, constructive responses that facilitate useful discussion. From a coaching standpoint, what kind of change is realistic and advisable?

Coach Tressel quoted C. S. Lewis this week. Well, Prof. Lewis also said, "You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream." I dream of a dominant defense and a dominant offense. Are the two mutually exclusive? I would like to think they are not.
 
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