2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

[morbitzerker]

At the end of the 2005 season, in the Fiesta Bowl against Notre Dame, the offense produced 617 yards on 64 offensive snaps - 9.64 yards per play.

9.64 yards per play is a record for any team, in any bowl game, all-time.

It's a record that I've never seen mentioned (except by myself), but there's statistical proof that a JT offense is capable of numbers that would satisfy virtually any fan of offensive production.

{sarcasm}But that was NOtre Dame. That doesn't count{/sarcasm}

used {} since it seems the sarcasm font has gone the way of the sigs.

 

[BB73]

I have 100% faith in Tressel as a Head Coach. But I'm running on about 10% wrt his Offensive Coordinator skills.

This type of negative comment, without offering any suggestions for improvement, isn't what we expect on BP.

It's OK to critique the offense, but also offer ideas as to how it could be improved. Something as simple as saying that you'd like to see more QB sneaks on third and 1, or less power formations inside the 5-yard line.

Because without adding something to the discussion, such negative comments simply lie somewhere between whining and bashing, and we don't want either of those things on our football boards.

Sorry to make an example of you, but I wanted everyone to be able to read this explanation.

 

[CalvinistBuck]

I don't think it takes all of that...just a QB he can trust and feels confident can handle the load.

As for having a dominant offense, I guess that depends on your definition of "dominant". Will it ever put up Oklahoma or Florida type stats? Nope. Not JT's style. Can it get to the point where it averages 35-40 PPG and wins comfortably? I think so, and soon.

That's a fair question. In my mind, dominant does not necessarily mean high-scoring. Dominant means being able to score TDs when presented with ample opportunity. Dominant means scoring more than 3 points when starting multiple times on the other side of your opponent's 50. Dominant means that when the defense takes away your power running game, you make adjustments and still get your points. Dominant on offense means not continually relying on your defense to shut down your opponent.

Admittedly, my initial post may appear as verbose whining. If so, then several points were missed. First, there ought to be some urgency that tOSU offense could significantly improve (outside of the Smith-Holmes-Ginn-Gonzalez era) its production. Second, only if you accept the first premise, how could improvement be realized?

This is a football forum and I was hoping to get people to talk football. Namely, football strategy.

For example, should we (rather, the coaches) concentrate on running the option? Should we employ a read-option in certain situations. Bubble screens? More bootlegs? Scrap the fullback?

1st-and-goal at the two and I'm yelling QB sneak (weren't you?). We're relying on the power run game and we don't have a "power" back! What should we do? I'm an info-haulic who delights in processing information--which is why I've refrained from posting. (Even now, I should be grading tests!)

I've read grad's posts and others, but I'm not so certain that a tweak is all that's needed. And I think it's not fair to simply blame it on poor execution. Good coaches are dedicated to installing a package that their players can successfully implement.

Alas, maybe this has all been covered and this is just me venting. Please forgive me if this has all been rehashed ad nauseum. I love the Buckeyes and think we should've beaten USC by two TDs.

 

[martinss01]

For people that say that JT refuses to open up the offense, let me ask you...what was going on from about the mid point of 2005 through the 2006 season?

your wasting your time. the only games people seem to remember from that time frame is 05 texas and 06/07 florida.

the whole "open up the playbook" argument is getting about as tired as "southern speed". it seems the people who can't figure out why the offense is struggling at any given time based on the personnel and schemes being utilized by the two different teams involved throw that out as the cause for lack of anything better to say. espin said it so it MUST be true!

A lot of us have said we see this year setting up very similar to 2005. By the end of 2005, that offense was turning into a well oiled machine. I think by the end of 2009, we'll see an offense consistently putting up 35-40 PPG.

couldn't agree more. its important to note for those who don't remember exactly how much the 05 offense struggled until ~ mid season. i want to say it was sdsu but im not positive, we won the game handily but no buckeyes were awarded to the offense (black or green) because of how poorly they performed.

With all due respect, this is a complex argument and Coach Tressel is a smart man. I'm just dreaming about the creativity it might take to make tOSU offense dominant.

with all due respect, you saw the scheme you are asking for against usc. usc flat out couldn't cover our wr's. period. they loaded the box to stop our running game and contain pryor. as a result we had wr's open all over the place. we simply couldn't get them the ball. if vintage 06 troy smith had been our qb that night and usc ran the same d we would have won by a minimum of 3 tds. carter was open most of the night. i don't think sanzo was covered at any point on any play. pryor locked onto a single guy and rarely ever looked to anyone else. i can't blame him, ive done that before. it took a sit down conversation with one of my other wr's after a loss to even realize i was doing it.

pryor is young, this team is young. they have grown considerably from last year. but they haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what they are capable of. but until they really start to gel your going to see a lot of inconsistency. the scheme is there. the talent is there. all the puzzle pieces are there. they just haven't put it together yet. it probably won't happen this week. it probably won't happen next week. but its going to happen. likely this season. god help whoever is lined up against us that day.

 

[jlb1705]

Dominant means being able to score TDs when presented with ample opportunity. Dominant means scoring more than 3 points when starting multiple times on the other side of your opponent's 50.

I agree with this, but I would replace the word "dominant" with "competent". With respect to the Buckeyes reaching that point and beyond, I think there are numerous areas that can be improved both on the field and on the sidelines.

And I think it's not fair to simply blame it on poor execution. Good coaches are dedicated to installing a package that their players can successfully implement.

If the player running the offense still doesn't consistently make good decisions in a timely manner and still doesn't have fundamentally sound footwork, there isn't an offense out there that player will run successfully on a consistent basis, regardless of whether or not it is congruent with his strengths.

 

[Steve19]

At the end of the 2005 season, in the Fiesta Bowl against Notre Dame, the offense produced 617 yards on 64 offensive snaps - 9.64 yards per play.

9.64 yards per play is a record for any team, in any bowl game, all-time.

It's a record that I've never seen mentioned (except by myself), but there's statistical proof that a JT offense is capable of numbers that would satisfy virtually any fan of offensive production.

[Domer fans]How dare you bring that up when you know perfectly well that Notre Dame's defense was letting Ohio State get off the field quickly so that we could all witness Notre Dame's schematic advantage.

Really. I'm just disappointed that they didn't run 20 yards a down.Ohio State's selfishness didn't give Charlie enough time to really show his brilliance.

College football suffered as a result. [/Domer fans]

 

[BB73]

That's a fair question. In my mind, dominant does not necessarily mean high-scoring. Dominant means being able to score TDs when presented with ample opportunity. Dominant means scoring more than 3 points when starting multiple times on the other side of your opponent's 50. Dominant means that when the defense takes away your power running game, you make adjustments and still get your points. Dominant on offense means not continually relying on your defense to shut down your opponent.

Admittedly, my initial post may appear as verbose whining. If so, then several points were missed. First, there ought to be some urgency that tOSU offense could significantly improve (outside of the Smith-Holmes-Ginn-Gonzalez era) its production. Second, only if you accept the first premise, how could improvement be realized?

This is a football forum and I was hoping to get people to talk football. Namely, football strategy.

For example, should we (rather, the coaches) concentrate on running the option? Should we employ a read-option in certain situations. Bubble screens? More bootlegs? Scrap the fullback?

1st-and-goal at the two and I'm yelling QB sneak (weren't you?). We're relying on the power run game and we don't have a "power" back! What should we do? I'm an info-haulic who delights in processing information--which is why I've refrained from posting. (Even now, I should be grading tests!)

I've read grad's posts and others, but I'm not so certain that a tweak is all that's needed. And I think it's not fair to simply blame it on poor execution. Good coaches are dedicated to installing a package that their players can successfully implement.

Alas, maybe this has all been covered and this is just me venting. Please forgive me if this has all been rehashed ad nauseum. I love the Buckeyes and think we should've beaten USC by two TDs.

Your posts are fine. Talking about offensive strategy, formations, and red zone calls are real football discussion that is welcome here. The earlier post by someone else that I criticized had none of that.

I'm not sure why the zone read option was shelved against USC, since it had some success last year. In the Navy game, however, the speed option appeared to work better.

The fullbacks are young and lack experience, and that seems to be part of the issue with the struggles of the power play ('Dave', to JT) this year. I also think that there have been times on that play where a cut to the outside would have worked but the RB didn't make that move. And more push in the middle of the line would obviously help, too.

I thought we'd see more bootlegs against USC to buy Pryor time, but USC was protecting the edge. Based on USC's defensive alignment when we had Sanzo in the slot, I thought quick throws to the outside, such as bubble screens, seemed liked they would work.

But other than the interception and the failure to punch it in at the end of the quarter, the offense was functioning very well in the first quarter. Part of the slowdown should be credited to USC, who are known for making effective defensive adjustments.

Personally, I wasn't yelling for the QB sneak on first and goal at the USC game. (I said it in a normal tone of voice so the USC defense wouldn't hear me).

I think it's easy for some to fault play-calling when plays don't work (I'm not saying you're doing that, but it's a common complaint lately). But passing at the end of the second quarter backfired from a game management standpoint. And there were 2 of 3 passes called just before tOSU's last punt, so the calls weren't overly conservative then, either.

I'm responding in detail because of the nature of your posts.

But on the other hand, Big Ten play opens in a couple days and it's gotta be time to move on.

 

[Gatorubet]

pryor is young, this team is young. they have grown considerably from last year.

Not to be pissy, but I've read on here that you were a "young" team every year from '07 until now. Not from you every year, Martins, so don't get me wrong, I am not pointing at you - but it seems to be a pattern. At some point the normal ebb and flow of losing players to graduation and/or the NFL has to be dealt with, and success achived with what you have. See the '07 overachievers. But what you should not have is use of the "young team" excuse in 07, 08, and 09.

 

[jwinslow]

So which year are you objecting to, gator?

07 - young. Lost Troy, Pittman, Ginn, Gonzalez, Hall at skill positions. Replacements were pretty green.
08 - clearly a veteran team but started a frosh at QB & OC, the two toughest positions for youngsters. Boom was the top healthy RB in a handful of games as well.
09 - very young. 2-deep is littered with underclassmen.

Having a lot of veterans in 08 isn't worth much when you're starting a running QB who only had a month of practice.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Not to be [censored]y, but I've read on here that you were a "young" team every year from '07 until now. Not from you every year, Martins, so don't get me wrong, I am not pointing at you - but it seems to be a pattern. At some point the normal ebb and flow of losing players to graduation and/or the NFL has to be dealt with, and success achived with what you have. See the '07 overachievers. But what you should not have is use of the "young team" excuse in 07, 08, and 09.

The team was young in 07 and is even younger in 09.

Anyone who said the team was young in 08 was simply wrong. Before the season last year, I showed some stats that proved it was one of the most experienced teams in quite some time. Not a single person disputed those posts to the best of my recollection.

I don't doubt that you saw someone post it. For every stupid opinion on the planet there is someone on the 'Planet' that will post it. But if it were a board-wide thing, wouldn't someone have disagreed with my assertion to the contrary?

 

[jwinslow]

QB - Pryor, been on campus 14 months. Depth behind him is even younger.
FB - Two true frosh are rotating with a true soph.
RB - Herron, soph, first year as starter. Saine, 3rd year, but also a backup until now.
WR - Lost veteran starters in Brians. Go to WR is a junior possession WR. The other two are a true freshman (2 months on campus) & a true soph who played very sparingly last year.
TE - Jake Ballard, veteran senior. RS Frosh #2 TE. True frosh TE is playing at #3 spot.
LT - Converted TE playing first extended & meaningful minutes. True soph Adams now unsuspended, pushing for time. Injured almost all of 08.
OG - Boren, veteran. first year at OSU, but old guy.
OC - Brewster, soph, starting second year at OSU.
OG - Browning, RS Jr. first year at RG, but started last year at RT.
RT - Cordle, veteran, but at OC/OG. With injury, true soph Shugarts is starting, and missed most of 08 with injury.

The DL & S positions are old, but the CBs, Nickelback & LBs are pretty young/new.

Backups on D:

DT - rs frosh, frosh
DE - soph, senior
LB - frosh, soph, soph
CB - rs frosh, senior
S - rs frosh, senior

 

[Gatorubet]

Hold on a minute guys, I'm not saying you AREN'T young this year, just saying that it seems to be the case two out of three years, and I heard it in 08, but that was more likely the "TP is young" stuff, which was undoubtedly true. And I wondered a bit about the issue, even if 08 is not a good fit.

Back to the youth issue, what is the reason for both 07 and 09 being a problem, as it were? Too much success in NFL early draft ranking? Abnormal number of injuries? Recruiting class not work out retention or skill wise?

I'm sure in a perfect world both Tress and Urban would want to reload with veteran players who had significant playing time the year before, even if in a supporting role. What in your view is the reason for the "young team" thing, being that Tress has been around a while and the recruiting has been good?

 

[zincfinger]

This is a football forum and I was hoping to get people to talk football. Namely, football strategy.

Calvinist, I think the bottleneck here is that even most diehard fans don't really have the detailed knowledge of schemes and formations to redevise an offense. I think it can be a good conversation, but if you have some specific thoughts in mind, maybe you can get the ball rolling by laying them out.

 

[morbitzerker]

tOSU lost 31 players to graduation or leaving early for the draft. That's all I can add.

 

[BrutusBobcat]

Not to be pissy, but I've read on here that you were a "young" team every year from '07 until now. Not from you every year, Martins, so don't get me wrong, I am not pointing at you - but it seems to be a pattern. At some point the normal ebb and flow of losing players to graduation and/or the NFL has to be dealt with, and success achived with what you have. See the '07 overachievers. But what you should not have is use of the "young team" excuse in 07, 08, and 09.

Hey, at least we're not flapping our gums about the flu.

What we shouldn't have are fans making excuses for not winning a national title every f-ing year. Exactly what's wrong with a team that's been to four straight BCS games and four straight conference titles? Why does anyone need to excuse the team as "young"? This is a premier program. Young players play because they come in ready to play. Pryor is ready. Duron Carter is ready. John Simon is ready. Brian Rolle is ready. When Beanie came in, he was ready. The Block O guys are ready.

If a dog's gonna bite, he'll bite as a pup. /johncooper

Does youth come into play? Sure, in terms of experience in close games, two minute drills, knowing the entire offense in week 1, etc. Youth can make a difference in an early season loss, but by the time the bowl game rolls around, there are no rookies.

As far as having a "young" team, OSU does lose as many or more players early to the NFL as any other program, so sometimes guys do have to step up a season early. That happens in a lot of places; Texas and USC are no strangers to early departures, and even Urban Meyer has probably failed to sweet talk an occasional player into staying for his senior year. Granted, OSU tends to be more encouraging to juniors than some other programs (see Carroll, Pete and Sanchez, Mark) and probably loses one or two more star players a year as a result.

If someone wants a team full of fourth and fifth year players as starters, they'd better start following the MAC.

All major programs have waves of young players coming through the system, and all college football teams are a work in progress. Even Florida, "the greatest team evar with 17th year seniors at every positions!!11!" has yet to look like, well, the greatest team ever. Give them five more weeks to get over the flu and they just might.

Back to my point -- there should be no "excuses" for this team. Winning conference titles every year and going to one of the very premier bowl games every year is not "rebuilding", it's reloading with incendiary rounds. It is only cable sports and blogger culture, with their 24 hour hole in the air needing filled with attention-grabbing rants that drives fans to bizarre reaches of logic to make "excuses" for one of the consistently best programs in the country.