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2009 tOSU Offense Discussion

crazybuckfan40;1541802; said:
I have a real hard time with this discussion.

1. Many point to the ranking of our low offense. This doesn't bother me, we run less plays, than other teams, we run and pass in balance, we run lots of playclock. So this argument holds no weight in my book.

2. Tress doesn't adapt to change...Once again this bothers me some...When Smith took the reigns of the offense we saw a totally different offense. He has recruited different type of athletes...The smaller type receivers with speed, he put in the shot-ginn offense...Keep in mind I am not saying he is an offensive Genious...I still go back to Miami in 2002 when he had them completely off balance.

3. Execution...This is a tough question for me as well...I understand the running plays, but truly there are only a couple ways you can run the ball. You line up in the I, singleback, Shotgun, and you either do the dive, lead with someone in the hole, trap, toss it outside...With this said we do see the Power play quite often, it is back to the question of execution...we knew against Navy they were going to option left option right, and we couldn't stop, because they executed. With as many times as we run the power it should work...Why isn't it working? To me it is execution.

4. Playcalling...This is another one...Tress called a pretty good game the other night. He surprised me with a couple calls...he broke tendencies...The only thing I question is there are lots of weapons, we just need them in a way that we have some sort of identity. It is almost like he trys to get creative at times, and either it is something we have not really worked on or we don't execute and he doesn't come back to it. I think we almost get too complicated trying to outthink, and then we oversimplify with the running plays. Think about USC in how they put a mcknight out at receiver and just run a short pass to him, or playaction to fullback who is an athlete.

5. Oline...The talent level here has been up and down. It is getting better. We have not had drive blockers that you just line up behind and smash the defense in the mouth. Obviously at times us being predictable hurts this,

With all that said. I think Tress could use a true offensive coordinator. I feel he has his hands in everything which is good, but at some point being in everything is too much. Delegation is a tough skill to learn for a leader, but if he could he could sit back and really watch this team go to the next level. I am not talking a whole new scheme change either. Just someone that is a 100% dedicated to this task.

I think the biggest challenges we face on offense are scoring touchdowns in the redzone. It is almost like Tress wants to make sure we come away with the field goal as well as try and score a td.

And Short yardage. We struggle to pick up short yardage, because 90% of the time it is the same play.

We just lack sustainability. We have a decent drive going, we stall due to third down play...Or we get in the redzone and settle for the field goal.

Let me preface I don't want to see Texas Tech offense, I don't want to see Florida offense. I want to see an offense that creates mismatches. Makes things easier on us.

Look at teams like USC, FLorida, etc. Against [censored]ty teams they know that their athletes are better than theirs. So if they ever get one on one on the outside they beat them deep. They know their guys can get to the corner easier so they run outside in space. Obviously they do alot of their base offense, but their base offense works better when they strike fear into defenses and make them play zone, and not crowd the box because if they don't they go deep and score easily. Also about keeping the defense on their heels.

Obviously lots to digest there, and I don't think we drop Tress, I don't think Bollman should be fired, I think we bring in an offensive coordinator who takes the reigns and we find ways to score tds instead of Fgs and convert short yardage plays and use our athletes in situations where they are more likely to succeed.

Great post. I went over it pretty quickly, but that was a great breakdown with goods and bads. *highfive* I agree with the OC comment and the Redzone comment. That is the most frustratiing thing. When you have a 6'6 235 runnign QB you should not struggle to score TDs in the RZ.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1541802; said:
Let me preface I don't want to see Texas Tech offense, I don't want to see Florida offense. I want to see an offense that creates mismatches. Makes things easier on us.

This is one thing I haven't been able to understand about the offense. Why not throw a screen to Saine for example? I see other teams do this kind of stuff all the time. Simple plays that exploit a flaw in the D or a mismatch. It does seem to me that the Bucks could do more of this. One of the reasons why "execution" comes up as a reason for problems it that the Buckeyes appear to run an offense that is dependent upon excellent execution. Maybe that is just part of the identity of the program going back to Woody.

Now, I am firmly in the camp that the USC game was particularly one where execution was an issue, as opposed to game plan. However, I agree that there is generally something lacking in the offensive imagination here.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1541802; said:
Obviously lots to digest there, and I don't think we drop Tress, I don't think Bollman should be fired, I think we bring in an offensive coordinator who takes the reigns and we find ways to score tds instead of Fgs and convert short yardage plays and use our athletes in situations where they are more likely to succeed.
9 coaches allowed to coach a NCAA team. Even Uleker can't coach this year. We bring in a new OC? Fine. Who gets the boot?
 
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Eh. Playcalling vs. execution....still doesn't explain the awful game management this year. The offense has struggled yet again, I don't care the reason why, but the game management has just been atrocious. I just never thought I'd see the day where Tressel-ball resembled a coach who didn't understand down and situation. It's been sad...
 
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I really hope some changes are made next year but I'm not holding my breath. It would make it easier on the whole team if we had a really good offense to go along with a really good defense. One part of the machine appears to be in place. I think we need an offensive coordinator to complete it.
 
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billmac91;1541855; said:
Eh. Playcalling vs. execution....still doesn't explain the awful game management this year. The offense has struggled yet again, I don't care the reason why, but the game management has just been atrocious. I just never thought I'd see the day where Tressel-ball resembled a coach who didn't understand down and situation. It's been sad...

I'm in complete agreement here. The offense is like my walk as a Bengals fan...I don't want to here excuses as to why it isn't working, I want results after it has failed for so long. All I know is that there are teams with nowhere near the personnel we have here scoring more points than we are, against similar competition. We have had the opportunity so many times in the last couple years to put teams away offensively, only to become lethargic on a 3 or 4 point lead and leave it to the defense. The defense is so stout that if we had a somewhat effective offense, we could be playing for a national title. No more excuses, I just want production with whatever it takes.
 
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A couple things I see. We rarely handle pressure well as an offense. Defenses tend to beat us by pressure. The next time I see JT and JB run a screen to negate the pass rush will be the first time......so if I play JT I know that I will not see a screen nor have to cover or tackle a FB in the I formation. Now things are getting simpler for me as a DC. I rarely even have to cover the TE....well ok JT has worked the TE a few times this year. I have 3 or 4 base running plays that my scout team needs to know and we will learn to destroy those.

Well thats about it, now I understand why usc held out all world 5 star qb and all that talent on offense to 265 yards.....that embarrassing. We have issues here that should have already been fixed and if they had we wouldnt be discussing it. I really like JT as a coach but I think he needs help to deliver a good offense with good talent. He is much better when he turns it over to a Heisman qb....but then again so would anyone. Go Bucks
 
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ysubuck;1540353; said:
You can't go to the 06-07 Troy Smith stuff because Pryor simply cannot make those throws right now. Everything is high. High throws will kill you. Every now and again he'll throw one right through the window (last night's big one to Dane) in the middle of the defense and you think "that's it!" But the more you watch him throw the more you think that the good ones are more luck than anything else.

TP came to Ohio State because they run a "pro set" and he wants to be an NFL QB. What we see may be TP wanting to prove that he can be a pocket passer rather than doing what comes naturally to him. I don't know. He definitely took two steps back last night.

Respectfully disagree.

If TP can make the throw to Posey in a 6 inch gap, he can make the basic outs or even the 18 yd deep out that we saw to Anthony and Robiskie.There's no question he's got the tools to make most of the throws.

It's less TP and more the coaching.Our offense lacks cohesion and constancy. TP's playing tight. As a Coach, you want your guys loose and confident. He's going out there terrified to make a mistake and playing with the weight of Buckeye Nation on him. The least that can be done is give him some decent calls to work with.

The frustrating thing is that this is not rocket science. Coaching is complicated as hell, with a lot of moving parts. But keep it football. Don't pull the guard, just on block. Don't give TP a million pre snap reads, just play sandlot ball.Leave room for improv.
 
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Joe56;1543667; said:
It's less TP and more the coaching.Our offense lacks cohesion and constancy. TP's playing tight. As a Coach, you want your guys loose and confident. He's going out there terrified to make a mistake and playing with the weight of Buckeye Nation on him. The least that can be done is give him some decent calls to work with.


Well I'll go ahead and disagree with you on this one...especially as a coach, you should know players don't always do exactly what they are coached to do.

The option looks were not good calls? Horrible execution but they were there.

How many open WRs did Pryor miss? How many times did he hold the ball too long.

Decent calls become awful calls when they are not executed. Add in the excellent chance that someone will simply flatout get beat on one side or the other, and you have the game of football.

I'd love to see some tweaking of the offensive philosophy, but Terrelle Pryor was put in many situations to have success and he did not deliver.

He did not lose the game singlehandedly and I agree there were choices made that could have been worked differently. However, your simplification of this situation surprises me.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1541802; said:
I have a real hard time with this discussion.

1. Many point to the ranking of our low offense. This doesn't bother me, we run less plays, than other teams, we run and pass in balance, we run lots of playclock. So this argument holds no weight in my book...

Your counter-argument would hold more weight if not for the fact that OSU ranks very low in terms of Yards per Carry and Yards per Attempt when compared to elite teams. The differentials for both are actually pretty dramatic. I will post more on this later in the stats thread if I have the time...
 
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DaddyBigBucks;1543800; said:
Your counter-argument would hold more weight if not for the fact that OSU ranks very low in terms of Yards per Carry and Yards per Attempt when compared to elite teams. The differentials for both are actually pretty dramatic. I will post more on this later in the stats thread if I have the time...

Reading the Tressel seminar transcripts that were linked in the Mill, one of the things going on there is that he and his staff rate a play's success not on total yards, but on how many were needed in that situation. Specifically, the success metric for first down is four yards; on second down it's half of the remaining yardage needed, and on third it's getting the first down.

Three yards and a cloud of dust, with an extra yard on first down. :wink:

With regards to running plays, his metric is the running back arriving at the LOS untouched and with his shoulders square, the presumption being that he will gain positive yardage at that point.

What's interesting is that in both of those measures that gaining more yards than the needed minimum, hitting big plays, and having a high yards per play average aren't goals and seemingly aren't measured. Consistency is what's measured, meaning that JT would rather see 3-4 yards per play every single play, than average 5 yards a play that goes: 15, 0, 0, 5 or 25, -5, 1, 2, 2.

It seems to me that one could emphasize both, or emphasize the big gain on second down as a better solution than merely half the yards remaining. Perhaps that's self-evident.

Anyway, here's the links to his talks. Several pages into the first linked talk, there's an extensive discussion on QB development which I found very interesting:

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/pdfdocs/tressel_pa_passes.pdf

The running game discussion, and a breakdown of "Dave":

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/pdfdocs/tressel_run_game.pdf
 
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