2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

[jwinslow]

I have stated my generally accepted theory that trench play determines most games.

But Todd threw interceptions, we racked up cheap penalties, and WR play could've been better. Yet you are still able to criticize the trench play and say it will hold them back. See how that works?

Todd was not alone in making mistakes in those losses. But if he does not learn from them, he will repeat them and it will keep OSU from fulfilling it's TEAM goals.

Shrugging off mistakes because others made them too is a pretty terrible way to approach athletics.

 

[Seenile]

Your talking about two completely different ideas here and calling them the same. Florida 2006, LSU 2007, etc brought in an athlete to run a very specific set of plays that were either runs or fake runs, much like we might do with Henton or Pryor. Seenile is proposing that we split starter's reps between two quarterbacks doing the same things on the field. Completely different ideas, and telling Boeckman that we are so skeptical of him as a starter that we want other QB's to split reps with him is only going to hurt his confidence and prevent the swagger you want to see develop. I'm all for other QB's getting garbage time reps, so long as they all know the job is all TB's.

To clarify, I am suggesting that we find out who is our Chris Leak in the Leak/Tebow combination. Although that may entail splitting Boeckman's reps so that we can see Bauserman or Henton against a team's 1st string defense in the first two games, it should not be seen as a permanent solution. Rather, it is highlighting the increased importance of our early games of auditioning QBs to determine who is going to lead us against the Trojans.

I'm going to hope the coaches know, seeing as they have hundreds of hours of practice with all of these quarterbacks. You really think that the coaches have no clue who is the better quarterback? And you really think that if they were that unsure that they wouldn't have played other players more last season, and that they wouldn't have taken the precautions with Todd that they did during the spring game so as to prevent injury to him? Thats an awful lot of conjecture, even more than you already had.

And yet, time and time again coaches, including Tressel, Heacock, Pete Carrol, etc, are shown for being what they are: human. Like Powerlifter said about Tressel starting Zwick over Smith. Like Billick doing the same with Boller at Baltimore. How many times have we seen coaches make mistakes and errors in judgment? I'm not saying they shouldn't be given their just due and credit; it is far easier for people like me to judge. But just about everybody but Tressel knew that we should have given a Coach's challenge to an Illinois fumble, which ended up being the difference in the game. And the last two NC games, especially the first one, highlighted that our coaching staff is far from perfect, if for no other reason than having two teams at the end of the season committing that many personal fouls. Schematically, we did not adjust either to what happen to us (Ginn injury) or what they were doing and are now paying the price with a lack of respect nationally. Sometimes, it is easier to see the big picture from the press box or from the HD screen.

I'm really confused by something that people seem to keep bringing up in this thread. In one sentence they say that Todd needs to cut down on the interceptions because all we need is someone to manage the offense and let Beanie, the O-line, and the defense take care it. Just manage the game, no turnovers, and we will win easily. Then in the next sentence they say that we need Todd to be more of a playmaker and they bring up Troy and say look what Troy did and we need Todd to do that and we need Henton or Bauserman to come in because they can make the big plays. I just cant understand what people are looking for out of Todd this season.

Here's my vote: Todd (or whoever the QB is) needs to make plays. Having a QB simply manage the offense behind a running game in this day and age of college football is dangerous. It may work, but most likely, a talented defensive line is going to take away your edges and force you to go over the top or deep middle with a passing game. This has happened the last two years in the NC game and I shutter to think of this happening again. Just look at the 2007 Rose Bowl with USC and UM. I believe the game was tied at halftime. Everyone thinks of it as a blow-out but it was only until back-to-back Henne interceptions that the USC began to pull away. Tressel has to make sure he does not forget his own words about protecting the football if we want this year to be the year.
:osu:

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

In all honesty, i think the turning point was when we were driving down, looking to go up 14-0, but the offside penalty forced us to settle for a FG. That was an enormous momentum killer and I don't think we ever recovered.

The same thing happened on our first possession of the '85 Rose Bowl. We squandered a great drive (and an awesome run by Byars) and settled for 3 and never got the momentum back.

... Having a QB simply manage the offense behind a running game in this day and age of college football is dangerous...

Dangerous or not, it worked in 2002. The difference is that CK was a part of the running game, especially in the NC game.

The problem we have is that we have a much more productive quarterback who isn't nearly as good at taking care of the ball. He's not simply managing the game. If he did, I would feel better.

 

[Seenile]

Dangerous or not, it worked in 2002. The difference is that CK was a part of the running game, especially in the NC game.

The problem we have is that we have a much more productive quarterback who isn't nearly as good at taking care of the ball. He's not simply managing the game. If he did, I would feel better.

2008 does not equal 2002. I loved OSU winning the National Championship as much as every other Buckeye but that was 6 years ago. Think about how much has changed since then. Text messaging, MySpace, Rivals.com, etc. The same has happened with the game of football and that is why teams like WVU, Missouri, and Kansas have risen up and teams like Michigan and ND have struggled to make that transition.

Ohio State fits somewhere in between the new offensive/defensive schemes and the old. A lot of progress that has been made is because of two players, Smith and Ginn. Articles used to quote Tressel about how much Troy Smith helped Tressel try new things and gave him confidence that he could do so without sacrificing ball control. Troy Smith wasn't a grand scheme of Tressel but more like something he stumbled upon. Obviously, with Pryor coming in, he is sticking to that template.

Tressel himself is quoted as saying that you build an offensive scheme around the type of players that you have and their abilities. With Krenzel, he was the best choice for that year given our level of talent at QB. Like you said, it was his running ability and clutch big-time throws that helped OSU win the NC, but even then with an incredible defense, it took several close games to squeak that one out. That is not a strategy; that is a lottery.

Right now, we have a plethora of talent at QB. The challenge of last year was that Tressel said that Boeckman had one of the best deep balls he had ever seen. So he built an offense around Boeckman's strength. And what he, and we, thought was his strength ended up being an area that he really needed to work on. Tressel looked the other way at first, considering it a long punt and taking the blame, but there is no doubt that he (and everyone else that bleeds Scarlet and Gray) has noticed this pattern.

There is no doubt in my mind that Boeckman will (and should) start. But unless we are satisfied with "Close enough" or "It was a rebuilding year anyway" or being the laughing stock of the rest of CFB, then contingency plans must be put in place, especially with playing USC so early in the season (see Texas 2005).

We had enough firepower to overcome Ginn getting injured in 2006. We had enough weapons to overcome Boeckman's inexperience. We did not have enough overall talent, however, for our coaching staff not to adjust or have backup gameplans in 2006 or to not address some fairly obvious challenges we had as a team in 2007.

I love Coach Tressel and everything he has done for the program, both in terms of win-loss record and character building. And, there is a reason why he asks for and listens to plays submitted by fans (Statue of Liberty vs UM in 2006, etc). It is because he is trying the best he can but he realizes that he is only one person and that he is not perfect (see Bellisari, Zwick, etc.).

Let's hope Boeckman shakes off the rookie mistakes and throws a liitle more like Tom Brady (minus the UM affiliation). But if he starts throwing more like Marsha Brady on the deep ball (key for not allowing teams to stack the box against Beanie), then it is time we roll the dice on at least looking at the possibility of another QB.
:osu:

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Was Boeckman responsible for not stopping Illinois in the fourth quarter?

Did Boeckman drop a touchdown pass in the biggest game of the year?
Did he jump off sides? Or rough the punter? Or fail to wrap up a receiver?

Did Robo, or any other of your examples, throw six picks and fumble twice in the last three games?

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

Boeckman never got better at minimizing mistakes and risks for the team. However, he was helped by the progression of Brian Robiskie and the emergence of Chris Wells as possibly the best back that Ohio State has ever had. If it wasn't for Chris Wells' gutsy carries at the end of the MSU game, or the 3 TDs that he ripped off in the 2nd half against Wisky, or the TDs late against Illinois or the 222 yd performance against Michigan, simply put Boeckman would not be in the discussion right now.

With that said, the offensive cohesion that Boeckman has built with the WRs and the Linemen and the Backs play a very large role in the decision making process. Right now, Boeckman is the only guy that brings enough cohesion and possesses enough understanding of the offense to lead. Henton tries to do way too much, and tries to make things happen instead of letting opportunities come to him. However, I think he is going to get a look early in game situations. Bauserman is the guy for the future right now (don't shoot me yet) and it's going to be an interesting battle between him and Pryor for sure.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Henton tries to do way too much, and tries to make things happen instead of letting opportunities come to him. However, I think he is going to get a look early in game situations.

I think Henton did well in his limited touches last season. There were some plays where JT just had him kill time.

Bauserman is the guy for the future right now (don't shoot me yet) and it's going to be an interesting battle between him and Pryor for sure.

While Bauserman impressed me in the spring game, I think there's little doubt that once Pryor is acclimated to the college game, he'll be the starter, regardless of how well Bauserman is playing.

 

[Jaxbuck]

All I know is that TB set an OSU record for INT's in a season last year and anytime you set a record in football at OSU you've done something.

Not taking care of the football is the holy of holies for JT's QB's. I will say to anyone that IF TB does not improve in this area, or gets worse, he is indeed in danger of getting benched. Based on my interpretation of the spring game I didn't see anything that looked like improvement to me. Hopefully I am wrong.

Based on this line of reasoning and that monster of a bet offered out there I'll take DBB up on that 10,000 to 1 bet to the tune of 1000 vcash if he's still willing(not that I think TB will get benched but the possibility exists and 10K to 1 is 10K to 1 ).

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

All I know is that TB set an OSU record for INT's in a season last year and anytime you set a record in football at OSU you've done something.

Not taking care of the football is the holy of holies for JT's QB's. I will say to anyone that IF TB does not improve in this area, or gets worse, he is indeed in danger of getting benched. Based on my interpretation of the spring game I didn't see anything that looked like improvement to me. Hopefully I am wrong.

Based on this line of reasoning and that monster of a bet offered out there I'll take DBB up on that 10,000 to 1 bet to the tune of 1000 vcash if he's still willing(not that I think TB will get benched but the possibility exists and 10K to 1 is 10K to 1 ).

To be candid, I don't disagree with anything you say here Jax. I'm just very optimistic about JT's ability to develop a quarterback, the Spring Game notwithstanding. To me, the INTs at the Spring Game bother me more than anything else because he should have improved more (one would think). Yet I remain optimistic.

As for the bet.

LINK

 

[cjmik_75]

One thing I hope Tress gets done throughout the season is getting Bauserman Pryor and Henton some early playing time, especially with the first string guys still in the game. Let's face it Todd is gone next year and getting all these guys some quality experience early is going to be a challenge.

Todd will be the starter, barring injury or some horrific drop off, for most likely every game this year. Personally, I think with the defense being as strong as ever, any 14-17 point lead and JT runs one of those guys out there even if just for a snap or two just to hand off to beanie or even take a shot down field. This also has alot to do with the defense playing lights out and the offense is not in a bad situation. (like backed up against their own goalline)

I could see TP in a slash or tebow type role but getting all three backup guys snaps at QB is important for next year's team too. Pryor is an amazing athlete and he'll be a sick weapon especially down in the red zone. He could line up at QB, RB, WR or TE in the red zone and let's face it, we haven't seen a guy that could do all that at tOSU in a long time if ever. This year's offense is gonna be about how to divert the opposing defense's attention away from Beanie and surrounding him with players like Robo Hartline Sanz Stoneburner Washington or Pryor (WOW) is only gonna make the team better. It's crazy thinking about the possibilites on offense this coming year. I just hope JT doesn't forget about getting the guys experience that'll still be here next year too.
:osu:

 

[Buckeye86]

All I know is that TB set an OSU record for INT's in a season last year and anytime you set a record in football at OSU you've done something.

You give him too much credit.

Schlichter threw 21 in '78
Greg Frey threw 16 in '90

Boeckman's 14 ties Hoying's 14 in '94 for third place.

 

[smithlabs]

You give him too much credit.

Schlichter threw 21 in '78
Greg Frey threw 16 in '90

Boeckman's 14 ties Hoying's 14 in '94 for third place.

Was Schilchter's Illinios game where he throw for three picks but the ball never touched the ground

Edit: Tomzack against Illinios I believe. Hey, I wasn't through puberty at the time...

 

[coachveer]

I am new to this site and therefore have not read all the previous posts on this thread but I would like to chime in with my 2 cents...

IMO TB has some major improvements to make for the QB situation not to be considered shaky! I want TB to perform on a very high level as much as anyone but his past performances against good teams certainly give me reason to wonder if he will ever evolve into a QB that can get the job done against elite competition. Sure, he has shown signs of greatness, but those performances have came when facing inferior competition. TB has a lot to prove and a close eye should be kept on him throughout the season by JT and staff. For a guy that was greyshirted and has been at OSU for as long as he has, TB should be performing on a much higher level than he is. I hope he comes out this season and sets the world on fire, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Should TB be the starter heading into the '08 season? Certainly. But, the idea of working Henton or whoever into the mix should defenitely be considered just incase things go south with TB.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

To be candid, I don't disagree with anything you say here Jax. I'm just very optimistic about JT's ability to develop a quarterback, the Spring Game notwithstanding. To me, the INTs at the Spring Game bother me more than anything else because he should have improved more (one would think). Yet I remain optimistic.

As many supporters of Boeckman have pointed out, he has been here for over four years...if he was going to be developed, you'd think he would've been by now.

 

[NFBuck]

As many supporters of Boeckman have pointed out, he has been here for over four years...if he was going to be developed, you'd think he would've been by now.

Which is the exact argument I made earlier in the thread: Most athletes have a God-given ceiling. Question is, did TB reach his with his fast start against the weaker teams and come back to earth against tougher competition. I certainly hope not for our sake, but I think TB will have a much shorter leash this year than most incumbent QB's. If he doesn't show marked improvement in taking care of the ball, somebody else needs a shot.

I'm rooting for him and think he'll be okay, but to state the obvious, our chances for an MNC and much sooner a win vs. USC rest on Todd's shoulders.