2008 tOSU QB discussion (official thread)

[BuckeyeCrazy107]

I think we would be stupid not to put Pryor is on 3rd and short. I mean come on Beanie & Pryor in the backfeild. Nothing else could possibly strike as much fear into a Defenses eyes then 2 #1 recruits(and Army All American MVP's) in the same backfield on 3rd down.

That would completly take the will out of the defense. Not to mention a redzone option would be very nice.

I'll kind of be mad if we don't utilize Pryors ability's to the fullest this season.

I can only see it now...Or how about a shotgun spread with Beanie and Saine in the backfield on either side of Pryor...

 

[coachveer]

I can only see it now...Or how about a shotgun spread with Beanie and Saine in the backfield on either side of Pryor...

The potential threat of having 3 athletes of that caliber in the backfield at the same time is scary!

 

[Taosman]

With even a decent year Boeckman will get a strong look by the NFL, if for no other reason than because it will be another weak QB draft year.
I think he ends up in the NFL.

 

[matcar]

We can also use common sense. Every other QB that has been with JT for two or more seasons progressed nicely. My faith lies not in Todd improving by himself, but rather Jim Tressel improving him.

I think I saw a post like this before and I saw a "Scarlet colored glasses off" response (probably in this thread somewhere - maybe by O8ch) that went something like this:

QBs under JT at tOSU:
Krenzel - won a NC - heart of a lion. Was he really vastly improved in 2003? Questionable answer here. We can all note that 2003 was a difficult year for many reasons, but you could make a case that Krenzel didn't "progress nicely".

Zwick - Did not progress nicely.

Smith - Heisman - outstanding progress as a human being and a player, thank you very much.

TB - To be determined.

I love JT and what he has done for tOSU and I actually like what's happening at the QB position. I also have stated repeatedly in this thread that I believe (maybe just hope) Todd will play like he did early last year all this season. But there's a case to be made that we haven't seen the nice progression we've all assumed.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Good observations, but -

I would say that: those who get starter's reps, Tressel gets the most out of.

Whether or not CK became more than he was in '02, who among us would suggest that JT did not get the most out of CK's natural ability? Certainly not me.

As for JZ/TS: JZ probably would have done well with a great OL and a running game. He had neither. When Troy had a more credible running game (and OL) in '05, he did more than progress nicely.

Which brings us back to CK: I realize that you acknowledged this, but CK would have looked much better with a credible running threat in '03. He did not have that luxury.

Which brings us all the way back to Boeckman. We have good reason to expect that he may have the best OL in front of him that any OSU QB has had in a decade. And do you think, just maybe, he'll have a credible running threat in the backfield with him? (understatement font)

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

The argument that an above average QB could take us to a very good record but a special QB wins championships is a very powerful argument. However, you have to take into mind that emprical evidence does not support that view. Chris Leak was not a special QB. He was talked about as a mistake-prone SR who never progressed or lived up to his potential. What happened? UF's OLs and DLs came thru and UF took home the title. Against the special QB in Troy Smith nonetheless. And look LSU. Can anyone honestly say that Matt Mauk? or whatever his name is, is a special QB? I think the opinion on him before the game was quite on the contrary, that he was a mistake prone QB and average at best with below average completion percentage. But look what happen. The kid came to play ball and his OL and skill position players backed him up.

We have the best back that we prolly ever had and a great defense that rivals the '05 and '02 defenses. If QB and playcalling does not cost us, we should be fine.

 

[matcar]

The argument that an above average QB could take us to a very good record but a special QB wins championships is a very powerful argument. However, you have to take into mind that emprical evidence does not support that view. Chris Leak was not a special QB. He was talked about as a mistake-prone SR who never progressed or lived up to his potential. What happened? UF's OLs and DLs came thru and UF took home the title. Against the special QB in Troy Smith nonetheless. And look LSU. Can anyone honestly say that Matt Mauk? or whatever his name is, is a special QB? I think the opinion on him before the game was quite on the contrary, that he was a mistake prone QB and average at best with below average completion percentage. But look what happen. The kid came to play ball and his OL and skill position players backed him up.

We have the best back that we prolly ever had and a great defense that rivals the '05 and '02 defenses. If QB and playcalling does not cost us, we should be fine.

And that's what we're all wondering about. If TB doesn't make the mistakes and seem rattled, then I think we have a chance to win it all. The alternative, I'd rather not think about.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

The argument that an above average QB could take us to a very good record but a special QB wins championships is a very powerful argument. However, you have to take into mind that emprical evidence does not support that view. Chris Leak was not a special QB. He was talked about as a mistake-prone SR who never progressed or lived up to his potential. What happened? UF's OLs and DLs came thru and UF took home the title. Against the special QB in Troy Smith nonetheless. And look LSU. Can anyone honestly say that Matt Mauk? or whatever his name is, is a special QB? I think the opinion on him before the game was quite on the contrary, that he was a mistake prone QB and average at best with below average completion percentage. But look what happen. The kid came to play ball and his OL and skill position players backed him up.

We have the best back that we prolly ever had and a great defense that rivals the '05 and '02 defenses. If QB and playcalling does not cost us, we should be fine.

Matt Flynn, but yes I get your point!

 

[zincfinger]

The argument that an above average QB could take us to a very good record but a special QB wins championships is a very powerful argument. However, you have to take into mind that emprical evidence does not support that view...

We have the best back that we prolly ever had and a great defense that rivals the '05 and '02 defenses. If QB and playcalling does not cost us, we should be fine.

I agree with the first paragraph, but not entirely with the second. Beanie is without question a tailback of sufficient caliber to do his part to take OSU to the promised land. Whether he's the best back OSU has ever had is debateable. The defense, in my opinion, is the principle question pertaining to whether OSU will be a very good team, or a great team - a national championship team. Specifically, the DT's. OSU has some great playmakers on defense, and there is no doubt the the OSU defense will generally be very good this year. But what they need in order to be great are DT's who can consistently control gaps and defend the inside rush against powerful O-lines. They've done reasonably well at times the past couple years, but failure at that point has also been the critical absence in most of OSU's losses the last couple of years, in my opinion. Improvement, or lack thereof, in caliber and consistency of play at DT, I would argue, will be the principal determining factor in whether OSU is great this year, or merely very good but not quite good enough.

 

[WaitingforKickoff]

I agree with the first paragraph, but not entirely with the second. Beanie is without question a tailback of sufficient caliber to do his part to take OSU to the promised land. Whether he's the best back OSU has ever had is debateable. The defense, in my opinion, is the principle question pertaining to whether OSU will be a very good team, or a great team - a national championship team. Specifically, the DT's. OSU has some great playmakers on defense, and there is no doubt the the OSU defense will generally be very good this year. But what they need in order to be great are DT's who can consistently control gaps and defend the inside rush against powerful O-lines. They've done reasonably well at times the past couple years, but failure at that point has also been the critical absence in most of OSU's losses the last couple of years, in my opinion. Improvement, or lack thereof, in caliber and consistency of play at DT, I would argue, will be the principal determining factor in whether OSU is great this year, or merely very good but not quite good enough.

I agree with that and I for one have been very critical of DT recruiting over the past year or so. But I think we rode it out. Denlinger, Larimore, Worthington saw their first extensive action last season and played well for the most part. Abdallah and some key FR will provide adequate depth. I feel pretty good about this area now, and for the next few seasons because we have some star players in the pipelines.

 

[zincfinger]

...I for one have been very critical of DT recruiting over the past year or so. But I think we rode it out..

I hesitate to continue a completely off-topic tangent, but since it's out there...this past year's recruiting class at DT was as good as could be hoped for. It was what OSU desperately needed the past several years, but did not get. There were certainly some quality individuals the past several years, but not the quantity. This last year changed all that, and I have little doubt that it will pay huge dividends in the future. But it also probably won't have much impact on this coming year. This year's fortunes rest on the shoulders of the veteran DT's who had their first taste of extensive, front-line, college experience last year.

 

[Zurp]

I think I saw a post like this before and I saw a "Scarlet colored glasses off" response (probably in this thread somewhere - maybe by O8ch) that went something like this:

QBs under JT at tOSU:
Krenzel - won a NC - heart of a lion. Was he really vastly improved in 2003? Questionable answer here. We can all note that 2003 was a difficult year for many reasons, but you could make a case that Krenzel didn't "progress nicely".

Zwick - Did not progress nicely.

Smith - Heisman - outstanding progress as a human being and a player, thank you very much.

TB - To be determined.

I love JT and what he has done for tOSU and I actually like what's happening at the QB position. I also have stated repeatedly in this thread that I believe (maybe just hope) Todd will play like he did early last year all this season. But there's a case to be made that we haven't seen the nice progression we've all assumed.

I would include everyone's most-hated quarterback, Steve Bellisari. (Bellisarri?) Tressel got him in his final year at Ohio State, and his third year starting at quarterback. We, as fans, went from "at least this will be our last year of putting up with him" to "if only he hadn't decided to go driving after drinking, because he may have helped Ohio State beat Illinois." And he brought Ohio State back from 28 points down to tie South Carolina in the Outback Bowl. He still wasn't Troy Smith (that really didn't need to be said) but, in the eyes of most fans, he was a much better quarterback at that point in the season.

 

[martinss01]

I also have stated repeatedly in this thread that I believe (maybe just hope) Todd will play like he did early last year all this season. But there's a case to be made that we haven't seen the nice progression we've all assumed.

dear god i hope not!!! have you actually gone back and rewatched those games early in the year where he "looked so good"? i keep hearing people talk about how well boeckman played in the begining of the year and how it kind of got away from him to the end of the year. that really isn't the case. boeckman was pretty much the same guy with the same skill set throughout the year. the way he played against washington wasn't all that different than the way he played against illi. the only difference? the illi defenders can catch where as washington's can't.

boeckman's issues last season were pretty apparent. he lacked arm strength which cause his passes to float on occasion and be "please pick 6 me" on the deep pass, he threw behind receivers, and did not handle pressure well.

while i expect limited progression from him this year. because of his lack of progression last year im not expecting a lights out season. im just not sold that he is that type of talent. he's a solid qb that will fill the position well, but he isn't going to redefine the way you look at the position. he can absolutely lead this team to a nc. but he can't do it alone. the d absolutely without question has to step it up in a very very big way.

 

[HorticullyBuck]

I completely agree; i went to all the home games last year. The long passes he made early in the year were due (more so) to the fact that the recievers had excellent seperation. When their was no seperation; he forced it into a hole he couldnt thread. Don't be fooled by the numbers. Hes still a good quarterback but the argument could be made his stats benefit more from the system.

 

[matcar]

dear god i hope not!!! have you actually gone back and rewatched those games early in the year where he "looked so good"? i keep hearing people talk about how well boeckman played in the begining of the year and how it kind of got away from him to the end of the year. that really isn't the case. boeckman was pretty much the same guy with the same skill set throughout the year. the way he played against washington wasn't all that different than the way he played against illi. the only difference? the illi defenders can catch where as washington's can't.

boeckman's issues last season were pretty apparent. he lacked arm strength which cause his passes to float on occasion and be "please pick 6 me" on the deep pass, he threw behind receivers, and did not handle pressure well.

while i expect limited progression from him this year. because of his lack of progression last year im not expecting a lights out season. im just not sold that he is that type of talent. he's a solid qb that will fill the position well, but he isn't going to redefine the way you look at the position. he can absolutely lead this team to a nc. but he can't do it alone. the d absolutely without question has to step it up in a very very big way.

I guess I look at the PSU Boeckman as completely different from the TSUN Boeckman. But I do see the point that early there were some struggles and certainly there were underthrown balls. The thing that trip me up (and many others) is that JT himself stated that the staff TOLD TB to underthrow...so I don't know where the error is in some of those throws...is that a bad throw or is he doing what he's coached to do. ...I dunno...