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Zwick vs. Smith (official thread)

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Zwick has not been tested, IMO. He did good enough against Texas, and well against crappy opponents. I used to be a big TS supporter, now I'm not sure where I stand. What I do know is that if Zwick gets tthe starting nod now, we will see a similar situation to 2004, where the new starting QB faces easy defenses and will seem a lot better. I think Zwick is a better QB at reading and delivering, but his bane has always been when he is under pressure. The few times that has happened, it hasn't been pretty (fumble, INT). We also haven't seen enough Zwick vs. toughD to judge properly.
 
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True. It wasn't the fumble that bothered me, that's a huge defender. It was always the fact that he scrambled that was the poor decision, there was no way he was gonna make it to the marker. I can understand going with Zwick now. If he throws tons of short hitches to our WRs, it's a huge step up from what we had. We have the best blocking WRs most years in CFB, which is why so many get drafted that aren't superstars here (Vance, Carter).
 
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Someone said on another thread that Troy Smith would make a great backup QB... and then another responded to say, "sadly, so would Zwick." An accurate observation.

It seems that everyone crucifies Justin for the fumble during the Texas game - but Troy can and does fumble too. His fumbles occurred in victories, so they don't stand out so much. I was really excited to see Zwick look sharper than the previous season during the Miami game, if only to quiet his critics; but then after a mediocre Texas showing the ball was given to Smith. We really don't know what Zwick might do against a better team at this point in the season.

I don't know that Zwick or even Boeckman could have done better against Penn State. It does bother me, though, when people are so incredibly negative towards this one Buckeye player who has never done anything to harm the program, never said a word negatively against our program, who struggled in the spotlight and lost his starting position and has chosen to take a back seat without complaint to stay with the team instead of transferring. I have a lot of respect for him, and I can't understand the honest HATRED I see so many people expressing.

I don't profess to be an expert on football; rather, the whole reason I'm here is because I want to learn more about it. I see the benefits Troy brings to the table with the scrambling and his athleticism, but I have to admit that I hold my breath every time the ball touches his hands. :( With some intensive practice, hopefully we'll see the evolution of a good quarterback. I have a feeling he's our starter for better or worse right now.
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
I didn't get to watch on TV, but from what I saw Ginn was open A LOT. Troy just doesn't look his way.
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Gonzo was wide open all day long. And I mean WIDE OPEN. Hall was also open a lot, usually 10-15 yards downfield. I didn't see Ginn open very often. I don't like the routes the coaches have him running...seems to be a lot of hooks and up-and-outs, as opposed to quick slants or posts. If his strength is speed, why not try to get him the ball deep, or at least while he's running? The several times when you could see Ginn running his routes, though, it looked like he was going half-speed, and sloppily at that. I wasn't impressed. Of course, I was already pissed by then, so maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion.

What is humorous to me is that everything people are saying about Smith right now was said about Zwick at exactly this time last year. Some are even questioning Smith's arm strength? Give me a break...but what bothers me are the trends we're seeing. Is it coincidence that both Zwick and Smith have established a pattern of locking onto only one receiver, and missing the wide-open reads? Personally, I think it is. Something to think about, though. I really would like to see Zwick get another chance, but I don't know if it would help or hurt the team at this point.

Another big disappointment for me was the OL play. After the Iowa game, I was encouraged. I know that PSU's DL is better than Iowa's, but their blocking was bad. Especially the pass-blocking. Of course, Smith made some REALLY dumb decisions in the pocket -most notably thinking he had 10 seconds when he did get a little protection.
 
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Zwick hasn't even had a chance this season. He has looked good against OkSt, Miami, and most people thought that he looked better than Smith throwing the ball against Texas. He has completed nearly 75% of his passes this season. He seems to get the ball to his playmakers more often. The thing about Smith is that as long as he is the QB he will be the offensive player of the game for better or worse because he doesn't get anyone else involved. I would put Zwick back in and if he doesn't cut it give TB a chance.
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I could not agree more with that entire paragraph - especially the part I bolded.

I don't know that Zwick or even Boeckman could have done better against Penn State. It does bother me, though, when people are so incredibly negative towards this one Buckeye player who has never done anything to harm the program, never said a word negatively against our program, who struggled in the spotlight and lost his starting position and has chosen to take a back seat without complaint to stay with the team instead of transferring. I have a lot of respect for him, and I can't understand the honest HATRED I see so many people expressing.
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I don't understand it either. All he ever did "wrong" was struggle in the early going of 2004 when the entire team (especially the O-line looked different than it did in the second half of 2004.

After that, he lost his job to injury and watched his backup (who had whined to the media about playing time - unthinkable in my book) play poorly, but beat the weakest teams on the schedule. When he got his shot to play with the new offensive group (when his backup got suspended AGAIN), he played well through rust and an injury. He dedicated himself in the offseason and showed in the opener that he probably can be the blue chip QB we thought we were getting when he was recruited. As icing on the cake, he didn't get a fair shake in the Texas game too.

Yeah, it's hard to see why some hate this guy so much.
 
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osugrad21 said:
I thought Zwick was much improved in that area this year....
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I think he's better at not locking onto just holmes (tho last year, who else did he have?). However, late in the play, like when they roll out to buy time, neither QB has any ability to see Holmes wide open down field. How many times has the TV crew gone back and shown Holmes waving his hand vigorously while wide open? Surely there are many other times where that happens for him and other WRs. Would a new OC be nice? Sure, but one thing has been glaringly obvious, we don't produce good QBs. And I can't believe that's a talent problem.
 
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osugrad21 said:
I thought Zwick was much improved in that area this year....
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Agree 100%. My point was more to ask - is this a "trend" because of coaching, or is it just occurring with each of these guys because of their relative inexperience? I haven't seen enough of Zwick this year to judge for sure, but he sure looked 100% better in this particular area this year as opposed to last year. The opposite is true for Smith....and I don't EVER remember Zwick missing such wide open receivers as Smith did on Saturday.
 
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...but what bothers me are the trends we're seeing. Is it coincidence that both Zwick and Smith have established a pattern of locking onto only one receiver,
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I agree with grad, Zwick does seem to have improved in this area in the time we've seen him from the bowl game forward.


Another big disappointment for me was the OL play. After the Iowa game, I was encouraged. I know that PSU's DL is better than Iowa's, but their blocking was bad. Especially the pass-blocking. Of course, Smith made some REALLY dumb decisions in the pocket -most notably thinking he had 10 seconds when he did get a little protection.
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Yes, PSU's line is better than Iowa's. Still, our line, even without Barton, did not do a poor job. They blocked to the tune of 3.8 YPC for both RBs. They provided adequate time for a quality QB to find our many open receivers on most passing downs.
 
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jwinslow said:
However, late in the play, like when they roll out to buy time, neither QB has any ability to see Holmes wide open down field. How many times has the TV crew gone back and shown Holmes waving his hand vigorously while wide open?
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If a QB is rolling out late in play...and I'm assuming pressure is coming...a WR 40 yards downfield or anyone across the QB's body is not usually an option no matter how wide open he is.

That is why WRs are coached to go into "scramble drill" when the QB is flushed...

However, I do agree that development and preparation needs to be addressed.
 
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At some point the coaches need to consider that Troy will never get it done CONSISTENTLY and will have some good games, and bad games. I am not sure if that will ever change. I think he tries hard, but he just cannot get it done some days.

We all get caught up in the fact the Troy LOOKS like he should be great. Great body, he is fast and can throw the ball a mile. But there is a diff between what we see vs what we get. It is like a Camaro with a V6.

I just want to see a QB that can see the field and deliver the ball to the open guy. I do not think Troy Smith is the guy. We are 3-2, fuck it. Lets find out who else can.
 
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RMosack said:
Yes, PSU's line is better than Iowa's. Still, our line, even without Barton, did not do a poor job. They blocked to the tune of 3.8 YPC for both RBs. They provided adequate time for a quality QB to find our many open receivers on most passing downs.
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you should go back and watch the game. There were tons of times where protection broke down immediately... not just the times where Smith held it too long.
 
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