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Zwick vs. Smith (official thread)

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JonathanXC said:
Even if Zwick does transfer, am I right in the understanding that he would only get to play one year at the school he transfered to. If this is the case, it may not be worth it to him, he may have a better shot at playing at tOSU.
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That is a good point about him transferring, he'll lose a year of eligibility if he does infact transfer so he'll have to sit out the entire season and come back on a brand new team as a senior.

May not be worth the risk, unless he transfers to a University that he is confident that he'll get the playing time after taking a year off.
 
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LightningRod said:
"If all things were equal and all things balanced off and once we get through the spring and the 29 practices, and once we get through the first game, chances are he would start based on what has happened last year," said Daniels.
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Two keys to this quote. First, IF ALL THINGS WERE EQUAL = If Zwick shows us a ton in spring and then Miami I don't think this is "equal"

Second, based on what happened last year. Heck yeah, Smith was the better QB last year. And like Daniels said in the article they are treating it like it was an injury.

I just don't see this as really being a big deal. He is not bashing Zwick in any of his quotes and really the article is more around Smith getting past the NCAA suspension and what he has to do.
 
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Here's what the Ozone posted in the middle of the night, same as L-Rod's link.

I have two comments: The first paragraph is poorly worded, it makes it appear that Smith's involvement with the booster occurred after the scUM game, when we all know it was about a year ago.

Second, Daniels says "Tress and I haven't talked about it". I'm thinking that is no longer the case as of this morning!

Daniels Sees Smith as Odds-On Favorite to Reclaim Starting Spot After the Opener Against Miami
By John Porentas

OSU quarterback Troy Smith won the hearts and minds of Buckeye fans last season with a brilliant performance in OSU's win over Michigan, then lost his own mind a little when he got involved with a booster who supplied inappropriate cash payments to Smith.

As a result of his action, Smith was suspended by OSU for the Alamo Bowl, allowing Justin Zwick to find his way back into the starting lineup and win a few minds and hearts himself with a gritty performance in the bowl game. Zwick piloted the Buckeye offense to a convincing victory despite suffering an early-game hamstring pull. In some people's eyes, his performance put him back in the hunt for the starting quarterback job.

The NCAA has said that Smith must sit out the season-opener with Miami of Ohio next fall and make restitution for the money he took. Smith is practicing with the Buckeyes and says he has begun to make the necessary restitution. The burning question has been, however, what would Smith's status be for the second game of the season, a blockbuster intersectional matchup between the Buckeyes and the Longhorns of Texas. Would Smith be welcomed back with open arms? Would he simply resume his starter's status?

OSU quarterbacks coach Joe Daniels took some of the mystery out of those questions yesterday as he talked to reporters at the Woody Hayes Athletic Facility.

"If all things were equal and all things balanced off and once we get through the spring and the 29 practices, and once we get through the first game, chances are he would start based on what has happened last year," said Daniels.

According to Daniels, the OSU coaching staff is taking the approach the no disciplinary action past the NCAA sanctions is necessary for Smith, and since he did not really lose his position on the field, he should be able to reclaim it, much like a player coming back from an injury who has missed some games.

"What he did was wrong, but as a football player, as a player playing, he didn't do anything wrong. That's how I look at it," said Daniels.

"We just don't have him because of this situation, kind of like he was injured and couldn't play," Daniels said.

Smith will sit out the opener, but will practice with the Buckeyes all spring, participate in the spring game, then practice with the Buckeyes all fall despite his ineligibility for the opener. While Daniels said that the likelihood is that Smith would resume his starting role, he added that the ultimate, final decision on that issue is not yet made, and that things could happen to change his mind, though he hinted strongly that he didn't really expect that to happen.

"You sort of have to let things play out," said Daniels.

"Everyone wants to have a decision yesterday. Tress (OSU Head Coach Jim Tressel) and I haven't talked about it, Bolles (OSU offensive coordinator Jim Bollman) and I haven't talked about it, the three of us haven't talked about it, because it's going to be 'Lets see what happens,'" said Daniels.

For his part, Smith feels a tremendous sense of relief now that he knows what his NCAA sanctions are and that he will be able to get on with his football life soon, a fact that is an obvious pleasure for Smith.

"A tremendous amount of pressure has been lifted off," said Smith.

"Just being able to be out there with the guys. It's an old saying that you never miss your water until the well runs dry. I never knew how much I would miss my guys until I wasn't with them," Smith said.
 
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At the start of last season folks were talking about Smith transferring. Incredible sage that I am I tried to make the point that he would be foolish to do so as he was only one play away from being the starting QB at one of the major programs in the nation.

Lo and behol, that happens and a few games later folks start talking about Zwick transferring. Then Smith screws up and Zwick is the starter again.

I can't imagine Zwick is so foolish as not to see that his position as being one play from the starting spot (especially behind a player who likes to run as much as Smith) will remain unchanged unless and until Boeckman pushes him down the depth chart.

I have zero problem with Daniels comment. We see those comments all the time in relation to DL, OL LB or whatever and don't bat an eye. If that is where the coaches see Zwick he should be grateful for their honesty.

And if he is a Division 1A caliber athlete he should be motivated to prove them wrong.



Once Smith got the job last year folks started talking about Zwick transferring.
 
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martinss01 said:
most punishments in life go far beyond the initial consequence. would you have a problem with a convicted sex offender moving in next door? they served their time right? therefor they should be viewed the exact same way they were before they were charged with anything. so you'd be willing to let this person babysit your children or work the late shift with your wife? im sure you would have been willing to trust that person before you knew of their crimes... so why would that have any impact after they have served their punishment?
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This example is ridiculous. In trying to make a valid point below, you elevate Smith's action to that of a felon. The example is so extreme it gives the impression that Smith should never be trusted. Thus detracting from your point.

The best example that I've come across reading messge boards was comparing Smith's infraction to a speeding ticket. Yes a law was broken by not following the legal speed limit. Lives were at risk. It was a poor decision, but if he goes to court, pays restitution, takes a driving course, he can regain his priviledges to drive. The infraction will cost him points on his driving license. The insurance company may raise the price of his policy. However if the driver has no speeding tickets in a two year period his points will be restored and the price of his insurance policy will be reduced.


martinss01 said:
no, smith's actions hardly compair. but the example isn't a compairson, simply to prove a point. everything you do in life alters the way others deal with/perceive you. which includes levels of trust. if im your boss, my level of trust in you often is directly proportional to the level of responsibility i am willing to give you. if you loose or damage that trust not only could there be immediate consequences. demotion, termination, write ups, etc... but more often than not, your initial punishment will bleed into how your boss deals with you and the roles you are permitted to play in the future. right wrong or indifferent, thats just the way life works.
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I think this is a valid point about trust. You're right Smith's action don't even come close to that above example.

martinss01 said:
the football world works the same way. all players bring a list of potential rewards and potential risks. be they injury, attitude, off the field problems, etc.. as well as positive attributes. its all risk vrs. reward. do the rewards smith brings to the table outweigh the risks? thats a question for the coaching staff and i have 100% confidence they will make the right call.
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Just as the staff is evaluating Smith's off the field, they are evaluating him on the field. Smith brings alot to the table leadership, skill, and whole new dimension not tapped earlier last season. If you look at Daniels statement on the O-zone he does seperate his evaluation from off the field and on the field.


And just as the trust issue must be dealt with off the field ...I think the trust issue on the field was questioned with Zwick's performance last year in the 3 game slump. I know alot of people who wanted to brush it off and blame the OL, running game, play calling ect but it seems in the REAL football world the coaches aren't. They are also looking at how Zwick responds to adversity on the field. Ok state was a good start.

Zwick maybe able to regain the confidence of the coaches and start like last year but as I said before he is going to have play a near perfect i.e. Brady to unseat Smith on the field.
 
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It seems like Tress and Co. are being a little more outspoken this year. First he said he belived they should be thinking about being national champs (when in years past he would talk one game at a time.)

Now the Daniels comment.... I think I like this approach more.

Maybe "Senator" Tressel is gone...
 
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I wish everyone would relax a little bit about the quarterback situation. If Tressel starts Troy vs Texas then so be it. The fact is that we have two quarterbacks in my opinion that are pretty even and the staff, at least Daniels thinks if everything stays the status quo, Smith starts. Is this really a suprise to everyone?

Maybe the timing of the comments could be suprising but I always felt that Troy would be the starter upon his return from suspension. I am taking a wait and see approach. Its way to early to name Smith the starter at this point, but like Daniels said, if everything stays equal.....then Smith is the better quarterback for this team.

You can't question his production the last few games of last season. I am a Justin Zwick fan also, but the most productive quarterback should start. Just keep in mind everyone, that things can change in a heartbeat. Its along way to September.
 
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From the Dispatch:

OSU FOOTBALL
Expect Smith to start vs. Texas
QB coach: Job likely is his after he serves suspension
Thursday, April 07, 2005
Ken Gordon and Tim May
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
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The totem pole that Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith supposedly had to climb was fed into the chipper yesterday.

It’s mulch.

Texas coaches should prepare to face Smith when the teams meet Sept. 10 in Ohio Stadium, quarterbacks coach Joe Daniels said.

"If all things are equal and all things balance out, and nobody lays an egg during 15 days of spring practice and 29 days of fall (preseason camp), then Troy probably will start the Texas game when he’s eligible," Daniels said.

"Is (Smith starting) a given? No, I don’t think so," he said, adding that he had not discussed the subject with coach Jim Tressel or offensive coordinator Jim Bollman. "You’ve sort of got to let things play out. . . . it’s going to be, ‘Let’s see what happens.’ "

After the NCAA suspended Smith in December for accepting money from a booster, Tressel said Smith knew he would return at the bottom of the totem pole.

But he seems to have made a full and speedy comeback.

First came the spring practice depth chart, which listed Smith as second team behind Justin Zwick and ahead of Todd Boeckman.

Then came Daniels’ revelation yesterday. Tressel was vague on the quarterback situation last week, leaning toward the camp of open competition, but Daniels was candid.

Smith still must sit out the Sept. 3 opener against Miami University, but then the coast looks clear.

Daniels made his statements after Smith was done talking with the media yesterday. So when Smith spoke, he clearly had no clue he would momentarily be all but anointed the starter.

Still, it also was apparent that Smith never really felt he was third string. When a reporter asked him about starting over at "square zero" this spring, Smith shot back, "It’s not square zero, not at all."

And last week at the prespring luncheon, receiver Santonio Holmes said he thought the coaches "probably" still considered Smith the starter.

Zwick was not available for comment yesterday because he had a class conflict, a school spokesman said.

Daniels said he considered the situation just as if Smith were injured and unavailable for the season opener. Holding him out of more games for an off-the-field incident is unnecessary, Daniels said.

"What he did was wrong, but as a football player on the field playing, he didn’t do anything wrong," Daniels said. "That’s how I look at it."

Yesterday, Smith said he fully felt the weight of his NCAA violation. He was most upset that he had brought shame to his high school (Cleveland Glenville).

"The decision that I made affected my community back home, it affected my family, and that’s the hard part," he said. "The guys who come . . . to a major university, they are a reflection of the organization that they just left (Glenville). So we’re trailblazers for the guys that come behind us."

Smith knows his image has again been tarnished. He has dealt with self-inflicted adversity before, most seriously when he was kicked off the Lakewood St. Edward basketball team for a flagrant elbow in December 2000.

Asked why he cared about how others viewed him, Smith said, "It’s just like if you were in an insane asylum and you thought you weren’t crazy, but you’re in a straitjacket, so everybody else thinks you’re crazy.

"There’s something wrong with you — you’re in a straitjacket. So usually, you’re thought of (by) what someone else thinks, not what you think about yourself."

In a sense, the straitjacket came off yesterday.



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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but could you imagine being poor old Mack Brown and not knowing who to gameplan for!?!?

Think about this situation. This could be a beautiful predicament for us when you consider the dilemma it might put the Texas coaching staff in. If we go into that week without declaring a starter, ole' Mack (call him Sac like me if you like) will have to gameplan for two QBs and I don't care who you are, that SUCKS as a coach.

Let's just hope the coaches have considered this and use it to its full potential. I think we could really make a strategic move out of this.
 
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JonathanXC said:
Even if Zwick does transfer, am I right in the understanding that he would only get to play one year at the school he transfered to. If this is the case, it may not be worth it to him, he may have a better shot at playing at tOSU.
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Only if he goes from tOSU to another DI-A school, but not if he goes to DI-AA.
 
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