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Young or Leinart?

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Who would you rather have directing your offense?

  • Vince Young

    Votes: 56 60.9%

  • Matt Leinart

    Votes: 36 39.1%
  • Total voters
    92
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fair enough about the bowls. tho it's easy to conclude such things that I already "knew" :tongue2:
methomps said:
It's a tough crowd when 177 yards rushing and receiving is cause for second-guessing one's Heisman worthiness.
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I agree he still had a pretty good game... which is why I won't write him off for the pros. It was the big play potential that was severely limited in this game, and not for a lack of smarts by Bush (other than the lateral).

The big play potential by beating everyone to the edges, or switching fields, was there all year long, on nearly every play (at least when I watched... Fresno, ND, UCLA). Against Texas, it was not.

disclaimer (bush is far better than ginn, but the big play argument still stands somewhat):
Same thing with Teddy, against poor defenses like Michigan, Notre Dame, Michigan State, Oklahoma State... he ran wild, and his dancing paid huge dividends. Against solid defenses like Texas and PSU, he did very little.

Bush would have an excellent year regardless of conference. I simply feel he would not have a 'greatest ever' type of season had he played tougher defenses.
 
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I'll take Young, and resist the urge to play him for the first year and a half, like the Titans did with McNair. After the learning period, he clearly started without alot of the troubles that rookie qb's have.

That said, it's highly unlikely that N.O. or the Jets would let him sit that long.

I'll still take Young.

Leinart=Marijuanavich=Paul McDonald.

Young hands down.
 
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as i am sure it would be easy to guess... I would take young. As for the Reggie vs. Vince thing...it has to do with timing, promotion, and excitability. I don't have a problem with reggie winning the heisman, he was as good of a player as I have ever seen....ever. However, I have a HUGE PROBLEM WITH THE MARGIN OF VICTORY!! There is no way in the fucking world that it should have been a landslide and that was a slap in the face to vince young. The huge gap in votes is the reason that so many people have become fed up with the heisman and more specifically ESPN and the way that they promote.
 
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Vince Young's Pro Day Work-out - Houston Chronicle

This one is the relatively glowing report from the Houston Chronicle.
Passing he looked good per this report. Ran a ~ 4.60 40-yd dash. "Legitimate candidate to be first pick in the draft."
LINK
AUSTIN - Quarterback Vince Young's coming-out party at the University of Texas' pro day Wednesday turned into his coronation as a legitimate candidate to be the first pick in the NFL draft on April 29.
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The Texans will lead off the draft, and even though they are expected to take Southern California running back Reggie Bush, Young's outstanding performance Wednesday at the Longhorns' pro day should make them think long and hard before making the selection.
"He did a great job," Texans coach Gary Kubiak said. "I was real impressed. He showed a very strong arm, and he was accurate on the move. He looked like he could have thrown all day. He made every throw. He did everything you could ask a guy to do in this situation."
Young — who was measured and weighed at 6-4 5/8 and 228 pounds — put on an impressive performance in the Longhorns' practice bubble.
Young performed before an audience that included Longhorns coach Mack Brown and offensive coordinator Greg Davis; his agent, Major Adams; and his mother, two uncles, friends and former teammates such as Chicago running back Cedric Benson, Kansas City linebacker Derrick Johnson and Seattle defensive tackle Marcus Tubbs.
Young threw 57 passes. One was dropped, and only four were off target.
"I was impressed, but I wasn't surprised, because we already knew Vince was a great athlete," Texans owner Bob McNair said. "He showed a super arm. He was really accurate. He put the ball on the numbers. He was accurate throwing on the run, and he didn't have to break stride. It was a great performance."
Young's showcase was orchestrated by his personal coach, Jerry Rhome, a former NFL offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. For the last month, Rhome has been tutoring Young in Houston to prepare him for Wednesday.
Rhome had Young drop back as if he were taking snaps from center instead of playing in the shotgun as he did for the Longhorns. Young threw from the pocket. He rolled right and left. He threw short, intermediate and long passes.
Young's most impressive pass came when he rolled to his left and threw across his body 60 yards down the left sideline.
"Rhome did a good job with him, which I fully expected him to do," Texans general manager Charley Casserly said. "He threw the ball well, and his footwork was good."
Young threw to four receivers, including three Longhorns: tight end David Thomas, wide receiver Brian Carter and fullback Ahmard Hall. Young also threw to his close friend, receiver D.J. Smith, who has been working out with him regularly.
Young even ran a reverse option, catching a long pass from Carter in stride down the right sideline.
"I may be a quarterback, but I can still get down the field and catch the ball," Young said.
Young knew he had put on quite a show but was as cool as he was in the Rose Bowl.
"I feel like I did a good job, and I had fun," he said. "I wanted to showcase my ability. I wanted to show that I can make all the throws from a three-, five- and seven-step drop. I know I still have a lot to work on, and I want everyone to know that I can be coached."
Veteran scouts said they could see Rhome's influence, especially on dropping back.
"Jerry's really helped me," Young said. "I was excited to throw today. I felt real confident doing it."

Sprint session

When the pro day began, Young didn't plan on running the 40-yard dash at the Longhorns' training facility. But he changed his mind and ran one time. Four scouts had him timed at 4.57, 4.60, 4.60 and 4.61 seconds.

"The scouts wanted to see me run, so I ran," Young said. "I'm a team guy."
Young joked with his receivers as well as some of his teammates who lined up behind him. He also called out to his grandmother in the bleachers.
"I'm a different breed of quarterback," he said. "I like to interact with my people."
Kubiak likes Young's leadership qualities.
"One of the things that impresses me about him is the way his teammates gravitate to him, which I think is important for a player at that position," Kubiak said. "You could see a little of that today. He handles himself real well."
Tennessee has the third pick. A Titans contingent of general manager Floyd Reese, coach Jeff Fisher and offensive coordinator Norm Chow spent time with Young on Wednesday night and will work him out again today.
"The Titans were the first team to call to set something up, so we did," Young said. "I don't mind doing this again for the Titans or any other team that wants me to work out for them. I love football. This is my job now."
Young is going to visit Baltimore. The New York Jets are coming to Houston to work him out, and the Texans will bring Young to Reliant Stadium in early April.
" I'm really interested in sitting down with him and getting to know him," McNair said. "We'll get some quality one-on-one time with him. We'll do the same with Reggie Bush, too."

Pack mentality

Green Bay has the fifth pick. General manager Ted Thompson walked away from Young's workout shaking his head in amazement.

"That was a hell of a workout," Thompson said. "What impressed me the most was his velocity on all his throws. And he's just so smooth in everything he does."
The Packers used a first-round pick on California's Aaron Rodgers in last year's draft, so there are doubts they would take another quarterback.
"I'll go back to the Sam Bowie situation," Thompson said. "If you have a chance to get Michael Jordan, you get Michael Jordan."
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ESPN's Take - Less Glowing - Emphasizes Reported 40-yd dash

ESPN doing a glass half empty on Vince Young's Pro day.

Emphasis on the 40-yd dash time which they report as 4.58, "slower than anticipated."

(Just my take, but he looked plenty fast enough making the Trojan defensive backfield look flat-footed on his game-winning TD run .. and there was no lack of track speed on the field for USC).

LINK
Scout: Young runs 40-yard dash in 4.58

Quarterback Vince Young was timed in 4.58 seconds in the 40-yard dash Wednesday on what is considered a fast track at the University of Texas in Austin, one NFL scout told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. The scout said Young's time was slower than anticipated.

<!---------------------INLINE TABLE (BEGIN)---------------------><TABLE id=inlinetable cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TH style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"><CENTER>QB 40-yard dash times</CENTER></TH><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ececec" vAlign=top><TD width=184>Reggie McNeal, Texas A&M, 4.35
Marcus Vick, Va. Tech, 4.42
Brad Smith, Missouri, 4.46
D.J. Shockley, Georgia, 4.56
Barrick Nealy, Texas St., 4.57
Bruce Gradkowski, Toledo, 4.59
Ingle Martin, Furman, 4.68
Tarvaris Jackson, Alabama St., 4.75
Brett Basanez, Northwestern, 4.75
Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt, 4.77 -- Vince Young's time of 4.58 would put him in sixth place among QBs

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!---------------------INLINE TABLE (END)--------------------->According to the same scout, Young's overall workout was "fairly impressive," but the scout said that Young was not asked to make certain drops and throws that he would have to perform in a private team workout.

While Young completed all but five of more than 50 passes, a scout told Mortensen, "That wasn't a remarkable achievement because he wasn't asked to make many tough throws and he waited a lot on his receivers to get out of their breaks. Teams that are curious about the guy are going to want to see more when they work him out."
One of those teams is the Tennessee Titans, who will give Young a private workout on Thursday in Austin, site of Wednesday's pro workout day for Young his his Longhorn teammates.
Other teams that have scheduled private workouts include the Houston Texans and New York Jets.

Asked to compare Young's workout to one given last Friday by Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler in cold weather and swirling winds, one scout said told Mortensen, "There was no comparison. Cutler made all the throws in tough conditions while Young limited his range of throws and he was indoors."
USC quarterback Matt Leinart, the consensus top passer available for the April 29 NFL draft, will work out on April 2 on the Southern Cal campus.
Young, the former Texas quarterback, worked out for 30 minutes in front of more than 100 NFL scouts, coaches and executives who are paying close attention to the quirky throwing motion that still raises questions despite delivering a national championship.

"Very impressed," said new Texans coach Gary Kubiak, whose team owns the No. 1 pick. "The kid put on a show."
Texas officials said Washington was the only team not to have someone watching the workout.

One owner, the Texans' Bob McNair, introduced himself to Young before the throwing session. Young is from Houston and has said he'd like to play for his hometown fans.

"I think he had a good workout," McNair said.

The Texans, who were 2-14 last season, are expected to lean toward drafting USC tailback and Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush after extending quarterback David Carr's contract for three years.

McNair said he hopes to attend Bush's workout early next month. But he also indicated the Texans haven't decided who to draft or whether to keep or trade the pick.

As a quarterback who can run or throw, Young is the most intriguing player in the draft, scheduled for April 29-30 in New York. He may also be the most scrutinized as teams try to decide whether his Rose Bowl performance of 467 total yards and three rushing touchdowns will translate into the NFL.

"It's a very valuable pick," McNair said. "We all want to make a good decision."
According to NFL.com, Young measured 6-foot-4 5/8 and 228 pounds. He ran one 40-yard dash, timing 4.57 seconds, although Young said he was told he timed between 4.4 and 4.5.

Although Young wasn't scheduled to run Wednesday, he said he wanted to after watching some of his teammates do it.

"They wanted to see me run, so I ran," he said.

The change of heart impressed Kubiak.

"He's very competitive and got in an environment where everybody wanted to see him operate," Kubiak said. "He did a great job."

Young spent most of the last two seasons operating out of the shotgun. Wednesday's drills had him taking simulated snaps under center and working with five- and seven-step drops in the pocket.

"I showed them everything they wanted to see," Young said, adding he'll do individual workouts for teams that ask.
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High Lonesome said:
well yes, but that is beside the point

every media outlet not names espn has said that young looked great, espn says he created more questions than answers.....even the packers gm said that they now had to consider taking young if he was there
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They weren't saying that on Sportscenter this morning, at least not that I saw. Salisbury was singing Young's praises. Most teams loved his arm strength and thought that he was very accurate. There was only one report that mentioned that Young waits until his receivers are actually out of their breaks, before throwing. Everyone else was very complimentary.

As for the original topic. I would take Leinart.

Leinart has stepped up in big games in his college career, and he's done it using his arm and using audibles to get out of bad plays.

Young, with the exception of the last touchdown against us, has always taken to improvising with his legs, i.e. primary receiver's not open, better run it. People don't think that Reggie Bush will be as effective in the NFL because of the speed difference. What about the speed difference when it comes to Young? NFL defenses have had a few years to adjust to a, faster than Young, Michael Vick. Vick probably can't wait for Vince to enter the league, so everyone can talk about how much better of a passer he is than Young.

Young didn't work under center much in college, and he still didn't read or react to defenses well, until after the ball was snapped. It was all improvisation.

Can Young be coached? The best thing to ever happen to Mack Brown was when he realized that he didn't have to coach anymore. Texas has tried to coach Vince up, and it just confused him. Vince is better when people leave him alone and don't tell him what to do.

Leinart can run, but he doesn't run a 4.6 so he's not going to run a lot. Leinart has worked under center, and done it successfully. Leinart thrived under two offensive coordinators and has proven that he can be coached. He has also shown that, like Young, he can improvise if there's something wrong with the play he's in.

I love that we run from the spread a lot, and how effective Troy is. I hope that for Troy's sake that we run from under center a lot more this year. That, along with his Heisman win, national championship, strong arm, good mechanics, and the 30 on his Wonderlic test will translate into a top 3 pick in next year's draft.
 
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VY ran a 4.58 and Bruce Gradkowski ran a 4.59? So there's almost no difference in trying to tackle them, right? Fans can only hope their teams rely more on looking at film than these workouts.

And NFL teams engage in a lot of disinformation before the draft. Some teams want to have VY slide down so they can grab him, and others want to pump him up so he gets picked before their spot comes up, leaving somebody else available since they don't need a QB.

I'd take Leinart, but I'll be amazed if VY slips to 10th or lower.
 
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You can't go wrong with either one. The key will be a team that can give them a year or two to learn the systems. I believe the learning curve is much shorter for Leinart and I certainly would take VY over Culter. Jets take Matt L and Tenn take VY.
 
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