Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

[SEREbuckeye]

He said himself he sought legal advice. He didn't know who to go to at first. How do we know that the legal advice was not to keep quiet about it until the federal case is concluded.

So JT is supposed to believe a stranger that he has never met is a lawyer and that there is a Federal Investigation going on with his team that he has never heard of? Why would the coach of Ohio State just believe everything written and not screen the issues and the emailer?

Think carefully about it. What was to be gained by keeping this quiet? The facts were going to come out eventually in the federal case and they are smart enough to know it.

What do you mean whats to be gained? Whats to be gained is Pryor, Posey, Herron, and Adams all being eligible for the season. Had he brought up the selling of the OSU merch in April there's a great chance they would have been suspended in the beginning of the season just like they will be for next season. A LOT was to be gained by keeping it quiet and hoping it just went away.

 

[Gatorubet]

I hadn't heard this. Do you have a link?

Its in the OSU March 8 Press release containing Gee's letter to the NCAA regarding this matter. The one linked earlier with the e-mails attached. Tress signed the compliance certificate September 13.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/mgmedia/file/127/osu-tressel-emails/

pdf page 4 "Information relating to Violations" "i"


It is commendable to support Tress, and I am not trying to tamp that down in any way. But the discussion has to mirror the facts. Like they say, "You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts."

Not meaning that to you, 07, more to the folks who only watched the presser and are fighting the factual basis of what happened.

 

[BuckStocksHere]

I just don't see this as a major violation. I'm sorry I don't.

What I, and of course only I, would consider major violation worthy would include but certainly not be limited to:

paying a recruit
paying a player
paying a high school coach
paying a runner
paying anyone for anything related to gaining/profiting from a high school athlete signing to your school
changing grades
teaching a course as a head coach and giving a player an A when he deserved anything but, just to pass him and keep him eligible.
Setting up a player with a free car through a "friend of yours" (or anyone for that matter)
point shaving
forgery in any form
cheating during a game(more often seen in baseball)
oversigning(for my sec friends - ha. which i actually think IS worse since you are screwing over a kid)

If JT had introduced the players to the guy at the tattoo shop, knowing they were going to get money for items - that would be a major.

Getting caught up in an investigation in which you didn't have any involvement and then making the wrong choice = not a major violation.

My point is this - I would have made a different decision because I work in an industry where compliance is king. If I even have a doubt about what I can include in an email - I forward it to legal. I would have forwarded the info (most likely) to compliance and washed my hands there.

I will never look at this as anything CLOSE to a major violation since it was not something the JT had "initiated" like those violations mentioned above. If somebody else had followed the rules - this wouldn't have never happened. Unlike those above where nobody else was needed to committ that act.

I know some will/won't agree but just my .02

Go Bucks. Still love ya Jimmy!

 

[matcar]

Of course there is no legal obligation to his friend. But there certainly is a logical reason to be hesitant in running off to the NCAA with confidential information regarding an ongoing federal investigation.

And there certainly is an obligation to make damn sure you understand the complex legal issues here. Neither of us is privy to the facts in the case so if you want to condemn the man based on hastily constructed assumptions I can't stop you. If you it makes you feel all self righteous go for it.

No, there's no good reason for not seeking out tOSU counsel....none. And if there's an "obligation to make sure you understand the complex legal issues here" as you suggest...then why wouldn't you GO TO tOSU COUNSEL....who would be experts in understanding such matters!

Look, I've said all along that I love JT, but the evidence in THIS case is not favorable. It doesn't make me feel self righteous at all...because I don't have anything to do with this case, but I can look at this honestly as see the mistake for what it is. Does it make YOU feel self righteous to stand on the other side of this fence?

 

[DaveyBoy]

One last observation:
Tressel is being torn apart in national media for not practicing what he has preached, kind of the "he/they look down on those of inferior character" with his sophomoric books, messages and personna of righteousness.
But the heart of the Tressel gospel has always revolved around forgiveness. He has practiced it for others who have erred, he has showed mercy for those who have been wrong, he has served as an ambassador of good will and an agent of reconciliation for those estranged.
Will we?

I agree and it's sad that the virtues we cherish most as God-fearing human beings....honesty, humbleness, and forgiveness....aren't considered the most important things for a football coach. This is the dichotomy many of us live with daily. Doing what's right as a man does not necessarily work in my job...or in Jim Tressel's job...or anyone's. We do our best to reconcile the two worlds knowing that deep down we are accountable to our God......or at least that's my feeling.

but I can't help but think that sitting on information like this for a long time and with multiple convenient opportunities to come clean is virtuous. Perhaps the lesson those players needed was to be exposed to the element of uncertainty about what would happen in their relationship with Rife or those surrounding him. Perhaps the best teaching moment was actually missed by Tressel.

Sad, disappointed, disillusioned......but Go Bucks !

 

[Mike80]

In terms of the suspension (length and including the fine), I have to think the athletic department of Ohio State has some inkling of where the NCAA is going to go in its final report on this issue.

If they thought the NCAA was going to really seriously drop the hammer on JT, I think they would have done it for the NCAA. We've all read the Ohio State filing report and I'm certain there were more details that went to the NCAA than was in what was more or less an Executive Summary of the issue.

No, it still won't look good either way and while the NCAA may not lengthen or make the penalties more severe, it also won't be in the business of providing a PR boon to Ohio State or Jim Tressel.

Both parties will need to rebuild their perception through their actions. That's the only real way to do it.


PS - Fuck the haters. Who gives a good goddamn what their perception is - Ohio State (the Athletic Department) only has One primary party and one secondary party to be concerned with. The primary party is the NCAA and that's obvious. The secondary party is the alumni, contributors and to a lesser extent the fanbase at large. Obviously the university at-large has TWO primary parties but I don't want to confuse the issue anymore than it already is....my point is screw eSPIN and their drooling idiot writers and all of the mediots out there that will say whatever it is to enrage Ohio State fans/people and essentially allow our enemies to gang up. Controversy Creates Ca$h, and that's their business.

Rep for anyone who knows who wrote that book BTW.

 

[Deety]

Not reporting the emails is a violation and there are penalties for that; that's fine.

Have to say, though, I am glad I've never had to decide whether to extract players from the situation quietly and take the hit for not reporting it when it inevitably comes out in the reporting of the investigation, or shine a light and set off a media barrage that could ruin a federal investigation and end with a drug trafficking setup of unknown severity free and angry at my players.

From this vantage point, I can't tell if I would have done the same or different. Probably never will know. But it doesn't sound to me like this was as simple as a choice to report and lose good players or not. I'm curious, and think the emails should have come out in December with the rest of it, but definitely still in.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

Not reporting the emails is a violation and there are penalties for that; that's fine.

Have to say, though, I am glad I've never had to decide whether to extract players from the situation quietly and take the hit for not reporting it when it inevitably comes out in the reporting of the investigation, or shine a light and set off a media barrage that could ruin a federal investigation and end with a drug trafficking setup of unknown severity free and angry at my players.

From this vantage point, I can't tell if I would have done the same or different. Probably never will know. But it doesn't sound to me like this was as simple as a choice to report and lose good players or not. I'm curious, and think the emails should have come out in December with the rest of it, but definitely still in.

If Tressel would have taken this to the OSU legal council, no media would have been involved. The legal council would have contact the Federal Agents would would have told them HOW to act in the proceeding months to keep JT clear and also keep the investigation on going.

Please explain by how JT talking to the OSU legal council would have hurt his players or the investigation?

 

[Bucklion]

In terms of the suspension (length and including the fine), I have to think the athletic department of Ohio State has some inkling of where the NCAA is going to go in its final report on this issue.

If they thought the NCAA was going to really seriously drop the hammer on JT, I think they would have done it for the NCAA. We've all read the Ohio State filing report and I'm certain there were more details that went to the NCAA than was in what was more or less an Executive Summary of the issue.

No, it still won't look good either way and while the NCAA may not lengthen or make the penalties more severe, it also won't be in the business of providing a PR boon to Ohio State or Jim Tressel.

Both parties will need to rebuild their perception through their actions. That's the only real way to do it.


PS - Fuck the haters. Who gives a good goddamn what their perception is - Ohio State (the Athletic Department) only has One primary party and one secondary party to be concerned with. The primary party is the NCAA and that's obvious. The secondary party is the alumni, contributors and to a lesser extent the fanbase at large. Obviously the university at-large has TWO primary parties but I don't want to confuse the issue anymore than it already is....my point is screw eSPIN and their drooling idiot writers and all of the mediots out there that will say whatever it is to enrage Ohio State fans/people and essentially allow our enemies to gang up. Controversy Creates Ca, and that's their business.

Rep for anyone who knows who wrote that book BTW.

He's back...in black...Eric Bischoff...

 

[Mike80]

Who cares what they think?

I stole this from another thread to make a point. I hope I don't screw it up.

Who CARES what anyone other than Ohio State and/or the NCAA think about this.....

Tress, from his own explanation, tried to handle it in-house. That was not the correct action and no one should be really debating that at this point.

Here's the deal now - Ohio State and the NCAA will work to deal with this issue. Then it is on Ohio State "the family", meaning the fans, alumni, students, faculty and administration, to heal this wound and move on.

Who gives a crap what other fanbases think - ALL of them hated Ohio State for its successes anyway. This is just an extension of their hate. It's a storm to be weathered, but once the success continues their petty jealousies will become more obvious.

 

[Gatorubet]

Have to say, though, I am glad I've never had to decide whether to extract players from the situation quietly and take the hit for not reporting it when it inevitably comes out in the reporting of the investigation, or shine a light and set off a media barrage that could ruin a federal investigation and end with a drug trafficking setup of unknown severity free and angry at my players.

Deety, you make it sound like those are the two choices. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You report it to your compliance folks. They contact their legal folks. Nobody mashes the "tell the world" buzzer along the way. If there are legal reasons that prevent the dissemination of the information, then the lawyers will decide that. That is what tOSU pays them to do. And that can be as easily figured out as a call to the DA or Justice. "Look, we have this information - do you care if we question our kids about the merchandise because of our NCAA duty, or will that mess up anything for you?"

If it is not something the feds want done, they issue an injunction or some other kind of court order saying "shush for now", and the whole thing is put off until it is OK - and tOSu and Tress and the NCAA are all good with that. But looking at the whole thing, I doubt that the Feds cared much about the autographed stuff and rings for tats. In any event, the only "confidential" problem Tress had was in keeping that quiet because it might cost that lawyer's bar license for possibly disclosing privileged communications with his client.

There was no risk of a "media barrage". Legal was there to get it all figured out. None of what was presented is that big of a deal, legally. I can see Tress not knowing what lawyers know, but he does not have to know. All he had to do is one simple, easy thing: kick anything you learn about possible NCAA violations up to compliance as soon as you know it and you are Golden. More importantly, tOSU is Golden.

 

[Mike80]

Deety, you make it sound like those are the two choices. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Nah - there were MORE than 2 choices, but the point is he took one of the wrong ones.

There was only one RIGHT choice, but a plethora of WRONG choices.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

I stole this from another thread to make a point. I hope I don't screw it up.

Who CARES what anyone other than Ohio State and/or the NCAA think about this.....

Tress, from his own explanation, tried to handle it in-house. That was not the correct action and no one should be really debating that at this point.

Here's the deal now - Ohio State and the NCAA will work to deal with this issue. Then it is on Ohio State "the family", meaning the fans, alumni, students, faculty and administration, to heal this wound and move on.

Who gives a crap what other fanbases think - ALL of them hated Ohio State for its successes anyway. This is just an extension of their hate. It's a storm to be weathered, but once the success continues their petty jealousies will become more obvious.

No he didn't and thats the point. Tressel did absolutely NOTHING with the information. How is this being missed?

 

[Mike80]

No he didn't and thats the point. Tressel did absolutely NOTHING with the information. How is this being missed?

That's not what the emails indicate to me, sorry. He was looking for "more names". That indicates to me he was trying to do it within his own purview, i.e. being a "control freak" about his program.

I'm not saying it's RIGHT because it certainly was not. I am saying that was what the man was trying to do. From what I've read there's no way he had anything to go on in terms of a real investigation - I just wish it had occurred to him that he couldn't possibly have done anything "right" with the information and had put it on the compliance department instead of doing it on his own.

I see this type of action all the time at work with people stepping out of their lanes trying to affect things they have no real power in affecting.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

That's not what the emails indicate to me, sorry. He was looking for "more names". That indicates to me he was trying to do it within his own purview, i.e. being a "control freak" about his program.

I'm not saying it's RIGHT because it certainly was not. I am saying that was what the man was trying to do. From what I've read there's no way he had anything to go on in terms of a real investigation - I just wish it had occurred to him that he couldn't possibly have done anything "right" with the information and had put it on the compliance department instead of doing it on his own.

I see this type of action all the time at work with people stepping out of their lanes trying to affect things they have no real power in affecting.

Handling it "in-house" means that JT includes the AD, OSU's legal council, and OSU compliance department. All these are "in-house" because they belong to OSU. Its not until OSU feeds the information to the NCAA does it become "out-of-house." Also handling it "in-house" doesn't mean going outside of the bylaws, this isn't an excuse to break rules. You can handle something "in-house" while still governing your actions under proper procedures.

So, JT didnt try to handle it in-house. JT sought out facts, got the facts, did nothing with them - those are the facts.