Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

[MaxBuck]

We're getting hit with LOIC whether we like it or not. And that will suck.

I believe you're right.

I wish I had all-knowledge so I could understand just how widespread the behavior outlined by SI is in Big College Football. My sense is that it is very widespread, but that could simply be my scarlet-and-gray glasses obscuring the view. If it IS widespread, then I'm upset with the prospect of Ohio State being the scapegoat. If it is NOT widespread, how the hell did we come to be such an unusually corrupt program?

 

[Merih]

Really? Seems pretty textbook to me. Self reported or not, there was an issue with "institutional control". Again, step back and imagine this was going on at another program. We'd be howling for armageddon.

My meaning was that we DON'T deserve to avoid the Lack of Institutional Control tag...

 

[Buckeye86]

2.) In the December press conference Gene Smith said with authority that this was an isolated incident and that a internal investigation found nothing further. yet a SI reporter an outsider uncovered 28 players in a couple of weeks and got people on the record as well.

This falls on the AD and compliance. We're getting hit with LOIC whether we like it or not. And that will suck.

If the FBI and NCAA didn't uncover hard evidence in their initial investigations, it seems highly unlikely that any of the verbal accusations that SI was able to gather will hold much water beyond their word against the compliance department.

 

[dragurd]

NFBuck you're misreading the quote he is saying we don't really deserve to avoid it. Not that we don't really deserve the LOIC.

 

[DaBears]

Up to this point I personally hadn't seen anything about the DOJ alerting OSU. If thats old news then I apologize but I'm getting the sense this seems like no big deal to people which is amazing to me.

I really thought that once reality set in, that once Tressel was gone people would come to grips with there being a problem, not continue down the "its all a witch hunt" path.

I think I may have been misunderstanding your argument. The article is obviously a big deal and I think it's biggest impact will be on everyone in compliance and Gene Smith. Although the article targets Tressel the most, it builds and strengthens the lack of institutional control case that the NCAA could (and probably should if the SI stuff is true) level Ohio State with. Even before the SI article, I feared vacated wins and scholarship reductions in OSU's future and the SI article certainly helps that fear.

 

[Oh8ch]

I wish I could share in the opinion that the SI Article is not that big of a deal.

What I read is this: OSU did a supposed investigation of the tattoo parlor activity and reported to the NCAA that only six players were involved. SI portrays ongoing and egregious activity at the parlor as an open secret.

The critical questions are 1) did this activity take place and 2) should OSU have known.

If you don't answer at least "probably" to both of those questions I think you have your head in the sand.

The NCAA doesn't have to be convinced that all of this story is correct. IMO the simple fact that OSU should have known and reported any of it is sufficient to build a case for failure to monitor.

 

[CHU]

If the writer -- Dohrmann -- had a goal of winning an award for that piece, he's not going to win one.

Not with so many holes.

 

[stowfan]

IMO from the beginning, this story really didn't cause JT's resignation no matter what the author says. It does provide a pretty good timeline that this has been going on for quite longer than the one time with 6 players that Gene Smith has stated.

The real issue for me in this story is this and it doesn't have anything to with coach.

1.) This type of activity has been going on since 2002 and compliance was unaware of this.

2.) In the December press conference Gene Smith said with authority that this was an isolated incident and that a internal investigation found nothing further. yet a SI reporter an outsider uncovered 28 players in a couple of weeks and got people on the record as well.

This falls on the AD and compliance. We're getting hit with LOIC whether we like it or not. And that will suck.

Earlier today you posted; we were going to be hit harder than USC, could I ask why?

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Up to this point I personally hadn't seen anything about the DOJ alerting OSU. If thats old news then I apologize but I'm getting the sense this seems like no big deal to people which is amazing to me.

I really thought that once reality set in, that once Tressel was gone people would come to grips with there being a problem, not continue down the "its all a witch hunt" path.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?

It's like you're saying people are only allowed to dismiss the entire article or accept that the whole of it is so damning it can't be ignored. There are a lot of non-documented allegations in the article that, when investigated, could easily prove to be extremely serious. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few of them pan out much less serious than the author suggests they might. Specifically the allegations of the raffles and the extent of players that might be linked to trading memorabilia.

The hype surrounding this article was that it would be like a propane tank dropped into a fire. As is, it's more like a few logs that had already been set next to the blaze were tossed in to keep it hot.

According to the allegations, actual laws were broken. That's a big deal, but not something we didn't already assume.

According to the allegations, a handful of current players are implicated. That's a big deal, but not something we didn't already assume.

According to the allegations, Tressel knew more than he admitted to. That's a big deal, but not something we didn't already assume.

What I'm not seeing is this damning evidence that the entire program was making under the table deals and holding back alley meetings to keep some extravagant embezzlement ring going. I'm not seeing paperwork being shuffled to and fro in order to keep the hands of the department heads clean. I'm not seeing anything new to add to the discussion. Only a bit more public disclosure on things that I can almost guarantee the NCAA already knew about.

This is not so damning that it forced the University to push Tressel out, but it also isn't damning enough that it alone breaks any sort of "huge news".

 

[Buckeye86]

I think I may have been misunderstanding your argument. The article is obviously a big deal and I think it's biggest impact will be on everyone in compliance and Gene Smith. Although the article targets Tressel the most, it builds and strengthens the lack of institutional control case that the NCAA could (and probably should if the SI stuff is true) level Ohio State with. Even before the SI article, I feared vacated wins and scholarship reductions in OSU's future and the SI article certainly helps that fear.

I said it above but I will say it again, the FBI and the NCAA already conducted their investigations and didn't find any hard evidence of anything that the SI article alleges. On top of that, much of what the SI article alleges is based on eye witness accounts. Maybe I am just naive, but it seems to me that the accusations alleged in the article will be extremely difficult to prove.

That being said, I have also said before that I think Gene Smith and the entire compliance department need to go as well and we need a fresh start.

The thing I want the most out of all of this is a fresh start and a turning of the page. Get rid of whoever needs to go from this whole thing and lets get rolling into the future.

 

[Bill Lucas]

Earlier today you posted; we were going to be hit harder than USC, could I ask why?

If Martin traded tickets for a car and this has been going on since 2002 then yes, it is going to be really bad when the sanctions come down.

 

[Thump]

That noise you hear is the collective sigh of big-time programs around the nation hitting their knees and praying to the the big man upstairs that this happened to OSU and not them.

The price of success is getting steep.

 

[Oh8ch]

If the FBI and NCAA didn't uncover hard evidence in their initial investigations, it seems highly unlikely that any of the verbal accusations that SI was able to gather will hold much water beyond their word against the compliance department.

The FBI wasn't looking at OSU player activity beyond giving OSU a heads up about memorabilia that had been discovered. NCAA rules are not laws the FBI gives a [Mark May] about.

I am also not sure how much of an independent investigation the NCAA did. It may have been as simple as meeting with Gene Smith and taking the OSU findings at face value.

As far as "verbal accusations" versus "the word of the compliance department" it goes well beyond that. Cars - particularly those driven by Pryor - require an explanation. And there is a tat or two (expensive tats it appear) that may need to be explained.

 

[BB73]

2 examples in the story of some pretty big deal type stuff and from what I see its open mic night at the BP bar to see who can be more dismissive of the article.

There will always be a mixture of 'gloom and doom', 'scarlet-colored glasses', and attempts at comedy when something like this is revealed.

There are some serious allegations in the article. There are also some aspects of it that seemed to be to be mostly character assassination, and some things that were fairly laughable, like the claim that JT rigged raffles at youth camps back in the mid-1980s.

Based on what some folks had heard about the article beforehand, there were concerns that it could have been much worse. I'd venture to say that part of the mixed reactions in this thread are due to a feeling of relief that it wasn't worse than it ended up being.

I've seen a fair amount of people talking about tOSU getting hit with 'lack of institutional control', and many folks saying that Gene Smith's job should be in jeopardy and that the compliance department needs to be overhauled. So several people are taking the situation quite seriously.

 

[Oh8ch]

According to the allegations, actual laws were broken. That's a big deal, but not something we didn't already assume.

According to the allegations, a handful of current players are implicated. That's a big deal, but not something we didn't already assume.

According to the allegations, Tressel knew more than he admitted to. That's a big deal, but not something we didn't already assume.

What I'm not seeing is this damning evidence that the entire program was making under the table deals and holding back alley meetings to keep some extravagant embezzlement ring going. I'm not seeing paperwork being shuffled to and fro in order to keep the hands of the department heads clean. I'm not seeing anything new to add to the discussion. Only a bit more public disclosure on things that I can almost guarantee the NCAA already knew about.

I think you may be overestimating what it takes to bring a program to its knees.