Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

[Jake]

To truly prove intent you would have to have a rather wide range of sales data encompassing both regular purchases and those made by the players (and their families), comparing things such as credit scores, how the car was financed, trade-ins and the value assessment, etc. Or, a statement that preference was given to the players and their families. I suppose a proven link of memorabilia would also shed some light on the truthfulness of their statements.

Kniffin and the owner of one of the dealerships he worked for, Jason Goss, have attended seven football games as guests of players, including the 2007 national championship game and the 2009 Fiesta Bowl.

"What an unbelievable coincidence!"

 

[SmoovP]

I'm not defending illegal actions but on a side thought...

Is there another hometown newspaper that tries to smear its flagship program as much as The Dispatch?

Wow.

I don't know the answer to that, but I know the reverse is just as bad.

All through our long Houston Nutt Nightmare/Drama, our local sports media were his biggest apologists, defenders of the indefensible and excuse makers in chief.

It was just as bad as what (I imagine) is going on in Columbus. It kept a mediocre coach employed for much, much longer than what his record deserved.

 

[CHU]

I'm not defending illegal actions but on a side thought...

Is there another hometown newspaper that tries to smear its flagship program as much as The Dispatch?

I think at this point, since they more/less got beat on that Yahoo! Sports story (the initial investigation), the Dispatch is basically going at all lengths to prove its worth.

I wonder if Gene Smith's name will ever be brought into this entire situation, since it's his athletic department (even though some argue it's Jim Tressel's). It's Tressel's program but Smith's department. Who knows.

 

[MaxBuck]

if the players are getting special deals because they're players, then it is absolutely a problem.

This is true, but short of hiring a perfect lie-detector, it's impossible to determine whether these guys are getting deals because they're Ohio State athletes. And if so, how good a deal they're getting relative to Mr. Average.

But get real: if you have half a brain, you'll recognize that at Ohio State, football and basketball stars have been getting good deals on lots of purchases for no less than 80 years. It's the way things work. Anyone who thinks differently, or that this kind of thing doesn't happen at every major program, is naive.

There is, though, a huge difference IMO between getting 5% lower price because you're a Buckeye tailback and getting a free (or half-price) vehicle.

 

[scarletmike]

Kniffin and the owner of one of the dealerships he worked for, Jason Goss, have attended seven football games as guests of players, including the 2007 national championship game and the 2009 Fiesta Bowl.

"What an unbelievable coincidence!"

Maybe that's proof of a link. It certainly seems damning at first glance. What are the travel arrangements for guests of players? Do they just get a special-looking ticket and "backstage pass?" Are travel costs reimbursed, do they travel with the team?

I'm not saying I don't believe we did anything wrong, I just want more details. When were the cars purchased? Did the players they were the guests of purchase them before there was any idea they were going to those games, or was it a "hey, I have a ticket no one I've talked to can use. You've been nice to me (maybe improperly, we don't know yet), do you want it?"

Certainly it is more likely than not that it was a questionable offer at best, but I'll wait until I know more about the specifics.

 

[MaxBuck]

One other thing - Kniffin is in big hurt with the IRS and is apparently about to lose his house. He apparently entered a sale price of $zero on a car that Thad Gibson claims to still be paying on. This whole business smells a whole lot more like a problem for Kniffin than it does for Jim Tressel.

 

[Systems_id]

Shouldn't the [censored]ing compliance dept be reviewing [Mark May] like this to make sure it's legit? I mean...am I missing something here? Isn't that EXACTLY what the [censored] they're supposed to [censored]ing do? Make sure the loan/contract abides by the rules?

From the Dispatch article, it sounds like the compliance dept did review all of these purchases and they didn't see a problem.

*shrugs*

 

[BuckShot63]

Shouldn't the [censored]ing compliance dept be reviewing [Mark May] like this to make sure it's legit? I mean...am I missing something here? Isn't that EXACTLY what the [censored] they're supposed to [censored]ing do? Make sure the loan/contract abides by the rules?

To be fair, the compliance department was quoted in the article. The compliance department stated that they knew of each of the player's car transactions and had monitored them to see if they were legit. The compliance department also stated that they are of the opinion that there were no violations of NCAA rules in these transactions. This is consistent with their opinion in December when the Dispatch ran essentially the same article. Thad Gibson's statement was that he is still making payments on the car that the Dispatch intimated was free. It is the dealership that puts the price on the paperwork, not the purchaser. Thad can either prove payment or not. What the price on the paperwork reads is not his doing.

 

[scarletmike]

One other thing - Kniffin is in big hurt with the IRS and is apparently about to lose his house. He apparently entered a sale price of $zero on a car that Thad Gibson claims to still be paying on. This whole business smells a whole lot more like a problem for Kniffin than it does for Jim Tressel.

Yeah, I get the impression that Kniffin knows he's screwed, and may be trying to take advantage of an already bad situation by involving players that he scammed in attempt to take the focus off of him. Ironically for him, it just brings even more focus onto him and his shady tactics.

Oh, and does anyone else misread his name as "Kiffin?"

 

[dragurd]

The problem here is not necessarily the sale of cars but the fact that 50+ cars have been sold in the last 5 or 6 years to OSU players. Whether it is they are getting special deals or not that type of thing raises a lot of red flags.

 

[BuckShot63]

The problem here is not necessarily the sale of cars but the fact that 50+ cars have been sold in the last 5 or 6 years to OSU players. Whether it is they are getting special deals or not that type of thing raises a lot of red flags.

The only red flag IS players gettting special deals. Absent special deals, no red flags.

 

[dragurd]

Absent of special deals why would 50+ cars be bought by players in a 5-6 year period from the same dealership? That is going to be the perception no matter what the truth is. So it should of thrown up automatic red flags about it.

 

[OSU_Buckguy]

from the dispatch article:

Officials at two national car-valuation companies - National Automobile Dealers Association and Kelley Blue Book - were asked by The Dispatch to estimate the value of the cars at the time of purchase. The values they estimated were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions.

if the estimated values were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions, then doesn't it follow that the estimated values were lower than or equal to the price paid in more than half of the transactions?

 

[JBaney45]

Oh, and does anyone else misread his name as "Kiffin?"

Several times, I'm still not entirely sure he's not involved in some way..

Kniffin told The Dispatch that he has sold cars to at least four dozen OSU athletes and their relatives, that the OSU compliance staff directed them to him, and that university officials reviewed all documents before sales were final.

I don't believe the underlined part, but if it is true you can kiss tOSU football good bye. See SMU, 1980s.

Ok ok, let's play the devil's (possibly delusional) advocate here. The osu COMPLIANCE staff directed the players to him, why would the COMPLIANCE staff in particular do such a thing? I mean the word of mouth from the player to player would be more discreet and leave less of a paper trail.

Let's imagine though that you are a compliance department and you've got 105 football players you are looking after (plus all of their family members). Wouldn't it be a lot easier for the department to try to funnel the players and families into 1 dealership where they could monitor the transactions rather then having players go all over Columbus showing up with cars from all these different dealers and trying to deal with the headaches that that would cause trying to keep tabs to make sure all of those transactions are in compliance (Not to mention players relatives, who aren't allowed to receive extra benefits either and who often hail from different locations making it all the more difficult to monitor). This is especially true if they felt that that Kniffin had a good grasp of NCAA rules and they trusted him to comply with them (Of course whether they were right to trust him is another issue).

In terms of Gibson's car being sold to him for "$0" the way I understood the Dispatch's rather unclear statements (they are great at that) was that Kniffin's books listed the vehicle as being sold for $0, that doesn't necessarily mean the compliance forms match that (seriously what compliance person would be dense enough to approve that)

 

[Jake]

from the dispatch article:

if the estimated values were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions, then doesn't it follow that the estimated values were lower than or equal to the price paid in more than half of the transactions?

Indeed. Price paid also depends on how well one can negotiate a price.

To me the more compelling issues are the autographed memorabilia and especially the passes to football games, including high demand games like the NC Game and Fiesta Bowl. When the salesman and the owner are getting several such gifts from players it seems obvious to me they got them for a reason.