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Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

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If the dealership is the one providing false information, can tOSU even be on the hook for any of that? Car sales are a touchy thing, and even a low-milage, normally expensive car could be worth less than half its used retail value due to a lot of things. If the dealers were providing false information to the state and to the university (if its true that sales were communicated), it would seem the issue isn't one of improper benefits. How do they even determine improper discounts/prices, anyway? So many things go into the price of a car, and to figure out preferential treatment, you would have to have access to a really wide range of sales data and the specifics of each car sold. I would especially doubt the transactions that took place at a true GM dealership (if that's what the Chevy dealer is) were falsified or unreasonably below market value.
 
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scarletmike;1918277; said:
If the dealership is the one providing false information, can tOSU even be on the hook for any of that? Car sales are a touchy thing, and even a low-milage, normally expensive car could be worth less than half its used retail value due to a lot of things. If the dealers were providing false information to the state and to the university (if its true that sales were communicated), it would seem the issue isn't one of improper benefits. How do they even determine improper discounts/prices, anyway? So many things go into the price of a car, and to figure out preferential treatment, you would have to have access to a really wide range of sales data and the specifics of each car sold. I would especially doubt the transactions that took place at a true GM dealership (if that's what the Chevy dealer is) were falsified or unreasonably below market value.
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I'd agree with all that if it were just one or two players, or players relatives, who had bought from the dealership. Not 50. When you hit that kind of number it raises some flags, to be sure.
 
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WolverineMike;1918278; said:
I'd agree with all that if it were just one or two players, or players relatives, who had bought from the dealership. Not 50. When you hit that kind of number it raises some flags, to be sure.
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Very true, but it still seems to me that we have a case of a shady business fronting as a legit one. It is certainly troubling that that many players and relatives went to that dealership, but if they falsified state/legal papers (and Gibson is really still paying off his car) and the buyers have no plausible knowledge of such shenanigans, can you pin it on the buyers? As shady as it may be, through less than honest, but not illegal accounting they may have activated discounts such as 0% financing, increased trade-in value, etc. that they wouldn't pursue for you and I. Could you really find those to be impermissible benefits, though? If they can justify those specials in their books, and someone else (not a player), somewhere along the line got similar or same specials, I don't think that can "legally"* be deemed an improper benefit.

*We all know the NCAA does whatever it feels like with no real reasoning, and that NCAA infractions are not "legal" matters. It just seems to me that something like this should be viewed through the "legal" lens as well.
 
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scarletmike;1918281; said:
Very true, but it still seems to me that we have a case of a shady business fronting as a legit one. It is certainly troubling that that many players and relatives went to that dealership, but if they falsified state/legal papers (and Gibson is really still paying off his car) and the buyers have no plausible knowledge of such shenanigans, can you pin it on the buyers? As shady as it may be, through less than honest, but not illegal accounting they may have activated discounts such as 0% financing, increased trade-in value, etc. that they wouldn't pursue for you and I. Could you really find those to be impermissible benefits, though? If they can justify those specials in their books, and someone else (not a player), somewhere along the line got similar or same specials, I don't think that can "legally"* be deemed an improper benefit.

*We all know the NCAA does whatever it feels like with no real reasoning, and that NCAA infractions are not "legal" matters. It just seems to me that something like this should be viewed through the "legal" lens as well.
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yeah, like the one player said in the article that he was still making payments, but the dealer had the paperwork showing it sold for zero dollars.

That sounds shady as hell to the dealership. For all that player knows, he's paying his car off and this guys pocketing 400 bucks month or something.

I hate care salesmen.....:lol:
 
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jwinslow;1918207; said:
jlb's example is not hypocritical, as cam can legally sell it now also.

It is hypocritical to outlaw all profiting off of Pryor's likeness because he is an amateur and then turn around and sell tens of thousands of Pryor jerseys that you claim are anonymous & coincidental
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That is more like an employee at a research lab who cannot benefit from the inventions he or she makes, because even though the employer will make millions off a product that the employee invented, they were providing other benefits to the employee, although worth less monetarily than the invention proceeds. More importantly, regardless of the money management will make, that is the deal that they both agreed to when the employee agreed to work there and use the employer's facilities.

The kids are like the employee. The value of the scholarship, tutoring, fame, and training provided by tOSU may be dwarfed by the income made by tOSU, but that is the relationship that both agreed to in the beginning. I don't see it so much as a hypocritical thing as an unequal thing.
 
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No, it is nothing like that. The problem is not that Pryor can work at OSU (with room, board and tuition) and they can sell the TDs he makes with tickets, tv rights, etc.

The problem is they are skirting the lines and selling an illegal product, a Pryor jersey, because it doesn't explicitly have his name on the back, because clearly there are a lot of folks who wonder if it is a Christian Bryant jersey when they see it.

That is the double standard and hypocrisy.

If Pryor's likeness cannot be sold in merchandising until he is no longer an amateur, then that should apply to the school as well.
 
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In a joint interview with Archie yesterday, Jack Maxton owner Jeff Mauk and Auto Direct owner Jason Goss both said they never have given athletes special deals.Mauk estimated that 40 to 50 Buckeyes bought cars from his dealership in the past five or six years .
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Public records show that in 2009, a 2-year-old Chrysler 300 with less than 20,000 miles was titled to then-sophomore linebacker Thaddeus Gibson. Documents show the purchase price as $0.
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Both dealers, whose businesses are not connected, say they routinely call Archie's office when an athlete is ready to buy a car, provide the purchase price and discuss who will co-sign on a loan. Archie said he relies on the car dealers to provide accurate information.
"I'm not a car expert. We have to rely on their integrity and their word when it comes to selling a car," he said.
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Archie said that he has spoken to Kniffin only once, never reviews sales documents and has not directed players to any dealerships.
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Archie has the official OSU plausible deniability line down pretty well but the public documents seem like they are going to make his attempt at blaming it all on a rouge salesman somewhat difficult.

Of course to be fair, on the other side of the coin it would seem that if the city of Columbus could just get some ethical used car salesmen and tattoo parlor owners the OSU athletic department would have no worries.
 
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The problem is they are skirting the lines and selling an illegal product, a Pryor jersey, because it doesn't explicitly have his name on the back, because clearly there are a lot of folks who wonder if it is a Christian Bryant jersey when they see it.

That is the double standard and hypocrisy.

If Pryor's likeness cannot be sold in merchandising until he is no longer an amateur, then that should apply to the school as well.
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When Pryor was a well known freshmen and wearing the number 2 jersey and Malcolm Jenkins was best/second best known player on defense and 3 year starter. Whose jersey were they buying that year? How do you split the profits then?
 
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osugrad21;1918313; said:
I'm not defending illegal actions but on a side thought...

Is there another hometown newspaper that tries to smear its flagship program as much as The Dispatch?

Wow.
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Good point. From the article:

Officials at two national car-valuation companies - National Automobile Dealers Association and Kelley Blue Book - were asked by The Dispatch to estimate the value of the cars at the time of purchase. The values they estimated were higher than the price paid in nearly half of the transactions. However, they said it's difficult to accurately evaluate the sales without seeing the vehicles to assess condition and options.
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Doesn't it necessarily follow that in over half of the transactions, the price paid was at or higher than the values estimated? Talk about trying to portray the facts in as negative light as possible.
 
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themongoose32;1918316; said:
When Pryor was a well known freshmen and wearing the number 2 jersey and Malcolm Jenkins was best/second best known player on defense and 3 year starter. Whose jersey were they buying that year? How do you split the profits then?
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One gets cash...the other a free tattoo?
 
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