Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

[AKAK]

After the recent press conference, most people assumed that a FOIA request had uncovered the emails from April and June, 2011. Many assumed that Yahoo uncovered them, or assumed that tOSU uncovered them when doing research for the NCAA appeal trying to reduce the 5-game suspensions. But the emails were actually uncovered by somebody at the University researching something related to Big Ten expansion. That was a minor news item that came out a day or two after the press conference.

However, I think it's safe to assume that at this point, there are a handful of reporters (and other 'yahoos') who have submitted FOIA requests for the email accounts of JT, Smith, and Gee for at least the last 12 months.

It's an advantage that private schools like Miami and USC have, I'm pretty sure that they're not subject to FOIA requests since their higher-ups aren't state employees.

Yeah, I understand that the e-mail discovery by the University was in regard to an unrelated matter-- and not by Yahoo or by an FOIA request in the timeframe that the Yahoo story ran...

I guess what I was getting at was an FOIA request fulfilled in the time since then?

 

[Steve19]

Negative attitudes toward Ohio State athletics have more to do with perennial success at Ohio State than anything else. It's so easy to rationalize one's own mediocrity by attributing the success of another team to cheating.

Clearly, there are several schools out there that make cheating an artform. Ohio State isn't one of them and neither is Jim Tressel. Make no mistake. Tressel's behavior has tarnished his image forever and hurt the Ohio State brand. He has provided the easy opportunity to say, "See, I told you Ohio State had to cheat to be that good."

But, the haters were haters already.

 

[BB73]

Yeah, I understand that the e-mail discovery by the University was in regard to an unrelated matter-- and not by Yahoo or by an FOIA request in the timeframe that the Yahoo story ran...

I guess what I was getting at was an FOIA request fulfilled in the time since then?

As of two weeks ago, based on articles written right after the press conference, Yahoo still had an unfulfilled FOIA request regarding JT's emails.

I'm sure there have been several other FOIA requests made since then. I think this is the relevant info for FOIA requests in Ohio. I believe the requestor needs to specify a topic and a timeframe, but I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[AKAK]

As of two weeks ago, based on articles written right after the press conference, Yahoo still had an unfulfilled FOIA request regarding JT's emails.

I'm sure there have been several other FOIA requests made since then. I think this is the relevant info for FOIA requests in Ohio. I believe the requestor needs to specify a topic and a timeframe, but I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Ok, so the answer is... "Probably not fulfilled"

 

[zincfinger]

Many pages ago, I had a spirited debate about the fact that no coach would ever out his players for anything that he couldn't handle internally. Interestingly, Mr. Bucknuts basically says this same thing in his bucket this week.

http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Article/Mr-Bucknuts-First-247-Bucket-18895

?Bob Hunter's relentlessly critical column about Jim Tressel's NCAA rules violation has it wrong. There is no doubt that there is a violation that must be punished. However, Hunter misses the most important point. Tressel did the right thing. There are times when a principled person like Tressel has to do something that violates the rules because, notwithstanding the rules, it is more important to protect his kids against being treated like criminals - when they are not. When that happens, he must suffer the consequences, but he still knows in his heart that, consequences and all, he had no other choice.

Just for clarity's sake, the part you quoted above wasn't written by "Mr. Bucknuts", it was written by David Goldberger, a law professor at OSU, in a letter to the editor of the Dispatch.

 

[Gatorubet]

Negative attitudes toward Ohio State athletics have more to do with perennial success at Ohio State than anything else. It's so easy to rationalize one's own mediocrity by attributing the success of another team to cheating.

Clearly, there are several schools out there that make cheating an art form. Ohio State isn't one of them and neither is Jim Tressel. Make no mistake. Tressel's behavior has tarnished his image forever and hurt the Ohio State brand. He has provided the easy opportunity to say, "See, I told you Ohio State had to cheat to be that good."

But, the haters were haters already.

There is a whole lot in what has transpired to have even neutral fans think negatively of tOSU. More specifically, fans who had no prior negative attitudes towards tOSU. Saying "They all hated us anyway" does not cover all of it. Haters gonna hate is true for some of it. Percentage can be debated; I have no idea how to quantify that. Certainly the SEC is giving you no slack at all, nor, I assume, will your in-conference rivals.

But there are folks with no prior axe to grind that will see - let's call it a vignette. They will notice the way the tat-gate 5 violations were announced, and almost immediately was followed by the announcement that they all allowed to play in the Sugar Bowl. Some will remember AJ Greene and wonder why the penalty was delayed. And then they will learn how Coach Tressel knew about it all along. They may remember him being at the December presser. They will have seen the reporting of the March Press Conference, which was not a PR masterpiece, what with Gee's bone-headed "I hope he doesn't let me go" statement. The press reported the next day or so more about the e-mails, which was widely posted on websites and blogs. They - or the blog writers they read , will compare that info to what was said in the presser. And - I know this will shock you - some will get a negative view that is entirely based upon the limited information they read in the e-mails in light of the way the press conference was handled. That is followed up by the timing of the "Voluntary" 2 to 5 game ban, which looks like a calculated attempt at sanction management having less to do with repentance and more to do with strategy.

While all of this is going on, nobody will be thinking of the enormous good that one James Tressel has done for your program at tOSU for years and years.

All they know will be what has happened since December, and some vague memory of MoC, and possibly some knowledge of ESPN focusing on how Tressel's YTS program was sanctioned after he left. Those people are NOT haters, nor WERE they haters. They are just not as well informed about the people and facts as fans of the institution. What you fail to see is that there are plenty of folks who do not give a [Mark May] so much who are being - led - to a negative conclusion by the totality of information THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT.

Haters are gonna hate. Sloopy and you are right. But there are fans who did not give a [Mark May] about tOSU, and who did not have an axe to grind, who now have a negative opinion of you because of the Sugar Bowl deal with the NCAA and the various things arising from tat-gate and the revelation that Tress knew all along.

Their perception does not mean you are horrible cheaters. Their perception does not mean that Tress is some slime ball like Kiffin. But you really need to know that reasonable non-haters do, in fact, have a basis for thinking poorly of tOSU right now. Hell, "haters" in the media help create that impression. But the casual fan sees and reads the coverage as it is put out there. It is not "hating" to be led down a path that was blazed by the players and Tress. The fact that the path was hi-jacked and resurfaced by haters is a problem. And Steve, none of that will make any difference as to the type of program you run, or the type of man Tress is. No difference whatsoever. The program is not an Auburn, and Tress is not a Kiffin.

But please, some of you need to stop insisting that any one who has a negative perception of tOSU right now is a former hater who is just hating on your because of your success. While you do not deserve all the [Mark May] you are getting, you deserve some. Blaming it only on "haters" is short sighted, and short sightedness is not the path to removing that perception and giving the world a better, truer vision of what y'all truly are.

 

[BayBuck]

There is a whole lot in what has transpired to have even neutral fans think negatively of tOSU. More specifically, fans who had no prior negative attitudes towards tOSU. Saying "They all hated us anyway" does not cover all of it. Haters gonna hate is true for some of it. Percentage can be debated; I have no idea how to quantify that. Certainly the SEC is giving you no slack at all, nor, I assume, will your in-conference rivals.

But there are folks with no prior axe to grind that will see - let's call it a vignette. They will notice the way the tat-gate 5 violations were announced, and almost immediately was followed by the announcement that they all allowed to play in the Sugar Bowl. Some will remember AJ Greene and wonder why the penalty was delayed. And then they will learn how Coach Tressel knew about it all along. They may remember him being at the December presser. They will have seen the reporting of the March Press Conference, which was not a PR masterpiece, what with Gee's bone-headed "I hope he doesn't let me go" statement. The press reported the next day or so more about the e-mails, which was widely posted on websites and blogs. They - or the blog writers they read , will compare that info to what was said in the presser. And - I know this will shock you - some will get a negative view that is entirely based upon the limited information they read in the e-mails in light of the way the press conference was handled. That is followed up by the timing of the "Voluntary" 2 to 5 game ban, which looks like a calculated attempt at sanction management having less to do with repentance and more to do with strategy.

While all of this is going on, nobody will be thinking of the enormous good that one James Tressel has done for your program at tOSU for years and years.

All they know will be what has happened since December, and some vague memory of MoC, and possibly some knowledge of ESPN focusing on how Tressel's YTS program was sanctioned after he left. Those people are NOT haters, nor WERE they haters. They are just not as well informed about the people and facts as fans of the institution. What you fail to see is that there are plenty of folks who do not give a [Mark May] so much who are being - led - to a negative conclusion by the totality of information THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT.

Haters are gonna hate. Sloopy and you are right. But there are fans who did not give a [Mark May] about tOSU, and who did not have an axe to grind, who now have a negative opinion of you because of the Sugar Bowl deal with the NCAA and the various things arising from tat-gate and the revelation that Tress knew all along.

Their perception does not mean you are horrible cheaters. Their perception does not mean that Tress is some slime ball like Kiffin. But you really need to know that reasonable non-haters do, in fact, have a basis for thinking poorly of tOSU right now. Hell, "haters" in the media help create that impression. But the casual fan sees and reads the coverage as it is put out there. It is not "hating" to be led down a path that was blazed by the players and Tress. The fact that the path was hi-jacked and resurfaced by haters is a problem. And Steve, none of that will make any difference as to the type of program you run, or the type of man Tress is. No difference whatsoever. The program is not an Auburn, and Tress is not a Kiffin.

But please, some of you need to stop insisting that any one who has a negative perception of tOSU right now is a former hater who is just hating on your because of your success. While you do not deserve all the [Mark May] you are getting, you deserve some. Blaming it only on "haters" is short sighted, and short sightedness is not the path to removing that perception and giving the world a better, truer vision of what y'all truly are.

This, along with much of the rest of your treatises on this subject, seems to be your own thought processes projected onto the various groups of people you are able to create these engaging vignettes about.

Are you literally incapable of giving it a rest?

(Besides, you have not established with any certainty that these "neutral" observers have actually become "haters", only that they are likely to view OSU/JT with suspicion and distrust. As far as actual hatin' goes, the haters were haters already.)

 

[BUCKYLE]

I thought it was "Haterz gonna hate". The Z gives it that extra flair to really drive the point home.

This, along with much of the rest of your treatises on this subject, seems to be your own thought processes projected onto the various groups of people you are able to create these engaging vignettes about.

Are you literally incapable of giving it a rest?

Haters gonna hate, bro...haters gonna hate.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Hatters gonna hat

 

[BUCKYLE]

Hatters gonna hat

Mm...indeed. Nice mou-stache as well good sir.

 

[CalvinistBuck]

Make no mistake. Tressel's behavior has tarnished his image forever and hurt the Ohio State brand.

This is the point I have been trying to make.

Negative attitudes toward Ohio State athletics have more to do with perennial success at Ohio State than anything else... But, the haters were haters already.

There is some truth here to be sure; however, I think some on this board are naive if they think that all of the "haters were haters already." There are many college football fans who formerly admired Coach Tressel beyond most coaches. Criticism of JT was seldom about his character, but about his vanilla playcalling or inability to win a big game. Now, in the eyes of many, he has, as you have said, "tarnished his image forever."

 

[Colvinnl]

This is the point I have been trying to make.



There is some truth here to be sure; however, I think some on this board are naive if they think that all of the "haters were haters already." There are many college football fans who formerly admired Coach Tressel beyond most coaches. Criticism of JT was seldom about his character, but about his vanilla playcalling or inability to win a big game. Now, in the eyes of many, he has, as you have said, "tarnished his image forever."

And the unfortunate thing is that if JT is around for several more seasons---and I hope that he around for a long time---it is likely that another scholar athlete will accept improper benefits. It is an unfortunate part of big-time college football that no coach can entirely prevent. The next time the media will not be as easy on him as they were with Troy Smith.

 

[UpNorthBuckeye]

While "haters are gonna hate" may not seem a valid statement to Gator Guy, I would say that there are those who are neutral about OSU and Tressel, and then they hear about the email he didn't disclose, and now they don't like him. Now they hold him up as an example of a CHEATER. Now they want to void everything that has been done the last ten years.

To me, this is another version of "haters hatin'". What it is, is the joy of bringing a big guy down. But it's an unqualified take down. It's maybe not "hatin'", but it's a negative dismissal of everything JT has done.

And it's not qualified. Like Haters who just wanna hate, an awful lot of people like bringing down icons.

Like when I hear that Lance Armstrong is suspected of PEDs and masking, it's very easy and tempting for me to say, "see? That's how he won seven Tour de Frances." (tours de france?).

I don't know squat about Lance Armstrong. But it's fun bringing him down.

When Elliot Spitzer cheats on his wife with a New Jersey hooker, it's fun to say, "See? the guy is a jerk."

But I don't know him and I don't know what really happened and I don't know how much of a biotch his wife was.

But it's fun to bring down the Governor of New York.

Of course, now he's got his own talk show, so what do I know?

So maybe it's not hating, but a LOT of people enjoy bringing down superstars.

This will pass. And after it's all over the dam, and JT brings us a national championship in 2013, then I hope he walks away on his own terms.

It's not that he would feel hated. It's just not that much fun being a superstar some days....

 

[Gatorubet]

(Besides, you have not established with any certainty that these "neutral" observers have actually become "haters", only that they are likely to view OSU/JT with suspicion and distrust. As far as actual hatin' goes, the haters were haters already.)

I would say that there are those who are neutral about OSU and Tressel, and then they hear about the email he didn't disclose, and now they don't like him. Now they hold him up as an example of a CHEATER. Now they want to void everything that has been done the last ten years.

Your stories, straight they are not!


Not everyone who formed a recent negative opinion is a long time hater with a hater agenda forged by your past success. We'll just disagree.

Can we not find common ground on something? Can we not all agree Calipari is a scum bucket - and hope for his public humiliation tomorrow?

 

[fanaticbuckeye]

Calipari is a scum bucket - and hope for his public humiliation tomorrow?

Would you settle for Friday?