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Yahoo, Tattoos, and tOSU (1-year bowl ban, 82 scholly limit for 3 years)

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Gatorubet;1896026; said:
Good point Mili. It would depend upon the verbiage in the document, obviously. And again, there is no "perjury" in signing a document that sets forth false facts in a document in the purely legal sense/criminal sense.

You might have committed "fraud" in some circumstances if the other party relied upon your actions, but a document that has to be signed as a part of tOSU's voluntary participation in the NCAA - and its agreement to abide by its rules - does not fit in an easy "fraud" box. I do not see how the NCAA relied upon it to its detriment, unless the tat-five agreement could be said to have relied upon it in determining that outcome.

I have not seen a copy of the certification, or any other schools certification for that matter. I'll try to find out if it is a standard form that is submitted yearly (like I assume) and try to find the wording.
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Here you go... prepare to be confused.

It doesn't go to the NCAA.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI Form XX-2.pdf
 
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I see a clear distinction between Pearl and Tressel.

Pearl committed a recruiting violation. Then, he lied about it and tried to convince others to also lie. Then, while awaiting final judgment, he committed yet another recruiting violation.

Tressel was advised in confidence by a third-party that a federal investigatilon revealed that five OSU players were committing an NCAA violation by selling some of their things. It's not clear whether he disclosed this to anyone but he did not report the violation to the NCAA or investigate it further in his personal capacity, according to his presser and later comments. He appears to have signed a document that says he is unaware of any NCAA violations, which would seem to be a lie, depending on the wording of the declaration. He has not committed a repeat violation.

No comparison in my mind between a repeat offender who was committing NCAA recruiting violations in his personal capacity and then continued offending versus a one-time offender who did not report possible violations by his players.
 
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AKAKBUCK;1896031; said:
And here is form XX-1 for fun...

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI Form XX-1.pdf
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So this is what Tress signed:

By signing and dating this form, you certify that you have reported through the appropriate individuals on your campus to your chancellor/ president any knowledge of violations of NCAA legislation involving your institution.
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Which of course immediately bring up the question "what does 'knowledge of violation' mean?" Is that violation one that is proven?...suspected?....alleged?.......likely?

I have to think that this is understood to mean reasonable suspicion of, otherwise nobody would report, or investigate, as keeping yourself in the dark would keep your certificate valid - if you never investigated you'd never know enough to have "knowledge of violations of NCAA legislation".

So I'd bet money it has been determined by the courts to mean "knowledge that puts you on notice of facts sufficient to cause you to report and/or investigate." Otherwise it is meaningless. This is for the STAFF to sign. This is to say "Whatever I knew I forwarded to the President or his designee". It is not intended, I think, to be knowledge of the outcome of investigations, just the presence of violations to be sent on up the food chain.

Obviously, signing the thing when you knew about the e-mails is what the fuss will be about. And whether the failure to disclose is one continuing violation, or two - or three separate ones.
 
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By signing and dating this form, you certify that you have reported through the appropriate individuals on your campus to your chancellor/president any knowledge of violations of NCAA legislation involving your institution.
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This tells me that as long as you passed it along to "appropriate individuals on your campus....", you are good to go. Is this correct? That doesn't seem right. Where does the NCAA get involved then?


EDIT: Just saw your post Gator. I agree, the wording here is pretty vague.
 
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Saw31;1896052; said:
This tells me that as long as you passed it along to "appropriate individuals on your campus....", you are good to go. Is this correct? That doesn't seem right. Where does the NCAA get involved then?
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This is a "Do you still beat your wife?" form.

If you answer it "I sent everything upstairs" and they find out about a problem, two possible futures await if it is discovered that NCAA violations have indeed occurred.

1) they find that you did not send it on up, and kick your ass for not sending it on up, and for lying to them and saying that you did;

2) they find that you DID send it on up, and then kick your ass with a "Lack of institutional control" bat because the staff found out about a violation, reported it, and that it was not handled right (or at all) by the institution.

3) I guess it is possible in some cases that the staff did not tell the higher ups, but that they somehow knew about it anyway and still did nothing. That would be the SMU money envelopes coming from the athletic department - with knowledge of the coaching staff. :cough: Craig James :cough:
 
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Steve19;1896032; said:
I see a clear distinction between Pearl and Tressel.

Pearl committed a recruiting violation. Then, he lied about it and tried to convince others to also lie. Then, while awaiting final judgment, he committed yet another recruiting violation.

Tressel was advised in confidence by a third-party that a federal investigatilon revealed that five OSU players were committing an NCAA violation by selling some of their things. It's not clear whether he disclosed this to anyone but he did not report the violation to the NCAA or investigate it further in his personal capacity, according to his presser and later comments. He appears to have signed a document that says he is unaware of any NCAA violations, which would seem to be a lie, depending on the wording of the declaration. He has not committed a repeat violation.

No comparison in my mind between a repeat offender who was committing NCAA recruiting violations in his personal capacity and then continued offending versus a one-time offender who did not report possible violations by his players.
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Nothing about Pearl has any mitigation. Scum bag. Arrogant repeat scum bag.

Steve, I honestly think that the confidentiality and the "federal investigation" stuff can be completely ignored. None of the two have any bearing whatsoever in the NCAA rules violation issue. In the court of public opinion, however, it may play differently, both for and against.

You summed it up well. The only issue I see is if the failure to report the violations in April and June is the same failure to report in September, when he signed the compliance deal, and the same as his failure to report in December during his talks with tOSU and after the 12/23/10 Presser with Gene, as (and here I do wish Jag would show up weigh in on Honor Code stuff, which seems similar to NCAA rules) it may be a violation for Tress not self reporting HIS failure to report in Sept and/or Dec. - after and separate from his violation for the delay after the April thru June e-mails.

Ya know, as soon as this stuff happens the schools hire high dollar law firms that specialize in infractions defense. They do this because it is a freaking confusing, nonsensical, inconsistent, mess of crap trap for a school or coach to find themselves in. What we see as important may not be what they care about. And, conference politics comes into play, as well as money issues, as well as "public perception", in that they may bring down a hammer to prove a point - which is unfair to the individual school being made the example, but perhaps "fair" in that everyone else not toes the line better.

Again, when things look dark, all I need to do is think about FSU. The Gator board had hundreds of pages of insightful post from "insiders" and lawyers, and people in the know - and when it was all said and done, FSU went chugging along, with some small scholly reducions and a meaningless to anyone but Bobby vacation of wins. Hell, it was the worst of all things, as it ran Bobby off, and we gators loved him. :p

"Who the Hell knows?" is a pretty good guess. :lol: Pretty boring to wait and see though. More interesting to chat about it. :paranoid:
 
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If there's any indication on how Ohio State may handle this situation - look at how Tennessee handled the Bruce Pearl situation.


KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Tennessee wanted to stick with the coach who led the Volunteers program to its greatest achievements. In the end, the university fired Bruce Pearl for too many transgressions away from the court.

Tennessee athletic director Mike Hamilton said in a statement released late Monday that school officials decided to dismiss Pearl, who has been charged by the NCAA with unethical conduct, after learning of additional violations committed on Sept. 14, 2010, and in March 2011.
 
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alexhortdog95;1896141; said:
If there's any indication on how Ohio State may handle this situation - look at how Tennessee handled the Bruce Pearl situation.


KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Tennessee wanted to stick with the coach who led the Volunteers program to its greatest achievements. In the end, the university fired Bruce Pearl for too many transgressions away from the court.

Tennessee athletic director Mike Hamilton said in a statement released late Monday that school officials decided to dismiss Pearl, who has been charged by the NCAA with unethical conduct, after learning of additional violations committed on Sept. 14, 2010, and in March 2011.
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The biggest violation Pearl committed in March 2011 was losing by 30 to an average Michigan team. You're kidding yourself if you think they'd have fired him if ewe tea went on to win the NC.

I don't know how the Tressel thing will end up, but Pearl is not a good indicator, in my view.
 
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Colvinnl;1895994; said:
OSU has conceded that Tress committed a violation in April 2010. I think the question is whether he then lied in September and/or December 2010. If so, my guess is the NCAA will consider that to be a separate violation. If he just continued to fail to disclose, maybe they will consider it to be a single violation.
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Your adamant about trying to get people to believe that what Tressel did is the same thing as what Pearl did aren't you?
 
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Onebuckfan;1896188; said:
I believe JT is on a short leash but the ball is now in the NCAA's court..I hope they are the next one to speak now..any more negative revalations will make it hard for the Administration to continue to back JT.
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Unless he's already told them everything. Which is a possibility.
 
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