World University Rankings (MEGAMERGE)

[ORD_Buckeye]

I think it's a good complement to the USN&WR rankings. My understanding is that it seeks to value a university in how well it serves the country at large through measuring its commitment to social mobility (educating the poor and first generation college students), cutting edge research and the percentage of its graduates who serve the country through the military, peace corps and other forms of public service.

That being said, I don't discount the USN&WR rankings. The basic data (how smart your incoming students are, how well you do in graduating them, your faculty and financial resources and the reputation that you command among other academics) is quite fundamental to a university's underlying quality. My problem with the USN&WR rankings are an inherent bias towards private universities (Notre Dame a better university than Berkeley) and the inordinate focus that's put solely on the overall ranking.

Whatever valid criticisms there might be about a bias towards private universities, the particular matrix that is used to combine the data or the infatuation with the overall ranking, those rankings have done a great deal of good--not least of which is in forcing the universities to create a large degree of transparency on data that most would like to keep quiet.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Except that this poll rewards the Boise State and USFs of the world by penalizing schools for having good recruiting classes (see social mobility factor).

How so? There are plenty of universities in the top 15 of the Washington Monthly rankings that manage to have both highly selective admissions standards without ending up as exclusive boarding schools for the rich.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

IMO, what you do with your education is much more important than where you go. Except for probably the Ivy League schools, and a select others, which will certainly set you up big time for job offers, you could go to a long list of colleges and still do very well. Many schools can provide the same kinds of things to you, and it just matters on what kind of student, and person, you are.

 

[Gatorubet]

Any rating system that has Florida 26th in the nation and places LSU 193rd despite their tougher schedules is inherently flawed :)

Les Miles went for it on fourth down with one second left, so LSU is now 192...

 

[calibuck]

Academically Speaking - SEC VS B10

About a month back, I was 'called out' by a poster for stating "as we all know, the SEC takes athletes with lesser GPA's", and "as we all know, the Big Ten schools have higher standards than the SEC schools", or words to those effects. I was chastened to be 'accountable' with which I spoke, and back it up. Okay, here 'tis. U.S. News and World Report has issued it's findings for 2008, and I will attempt to 'prove' my point (with their claims) that the above which I asserted is true......

The following is for what USNWR calls 'National Universities' (164 public and 98 private = 262 total) offering wide range of undergrad, masters as well as doctoral degrees, and the data is ranked by up to 15 indicators of academic quality and tabulated.

FIRST TIER - from #1 to #50
#14 Northwestern University (1)
#19 Vanderbilt University (1)
#25 University of Michigan (2)
#38 University of Illinois (3)
#38 University of Wisconsin (4)
#48 Pennsylvania State U. (5)
#49 University of Florida (2)

SECOND TIER - from #51 to #124
#57 The Ohio State University (6)
#59 University of Georgia (3)
#64 Purdue University (7)
#64 University of Iowa (8)
#71 Michigan State University (9)
#71 University of Minnesota (10)
#75 Indiana University (11)
#91 University of Alabama (4)
#96 Auburn University (5)
#96 University of Tennessee (6)
#112 University of South Carolina (7)
#122 University of Kentucky (8)
#124 University of Arkansas (9)

THIRD TIER - ranked from 131 through a tie at 187 ranked alphabetically
Louisiana State University (10)
University of Mississippi (11)
Could not find: Mississippi State U.

I'll leave it to the readers to decide whether I was correct in my assertions. All in all, the academics are better in the Big Ten than in the SEC. Not to say that the best students in the SEC wouldn't succeed in the B10 - they would, but overall, the universities in the North are better than those below the Mason-Dixon line. I'm just sayin'.......Mods, couldn't find a category for 'who gives a hoot', but thought I'd plant it here....

:gobucks3::gobucks4:

 

[Sportsbuck28]

This argument isn't too solid unless you show the GPAs/test scores of scholarship football players.

 

[DiamondBuck]

It's a start... While the list clearly shows the B10 schools on average rank more highly, I believe many of us have taken swipes at UM's "backdoor" (namely Kinesiology) for matriculating prized recruits who are borderline academically. And, on a tangential note, I can't help but be reminded of apparent lack of correlation between the high academic standards at Coral Gables and its football team. So, academic reputation appears to have only a marginal correlation with the academic capabilities of the football team members.

 

[Gatorubet]

Explain to me WTF Coral Gables has to do with the SEC?

 

[Gatorubet]

This argument isn't too solid unless you show the GPAs/test scores of scholarship football players.

Yep, and - I dunno - maybe at minimum providing the respective entrance requirements at the various schools/conferences for football scholarship athletes would be nice.

The fact that you quote US News and World Report ranking is not proof of your hypothesis.

 

[jwinslow]

Explain to me WTF Coral Gables has to do with the SEC?

It has to do with UM. Try reading at b10 speed. If anything, Diamond is questioning the b10, sport

While the list clearly shows the B10 schools on average rank more highly, I believe many of us have taken swipes at UM's "backdoor"

So, academic reputation appears to have only a marginal correlation with the academic capabilities of the football team members.

aka undergrad nerds aren't the best measuring sticks for jocks. Coral Gables was merely another example.

Yep, and - I dunno - maybe at minimum providing the respective entrance requirements at the various schools/conferences for football scholarship athletes would be nice.

Well the entrance requirements for an offer/LOI seem to be rather different across the board.

 

[Gatorubet]

It has to do with UM. Try reading at b10 speed. If anything, Diamond is questioning the b10, sport

I should slow down my reading? Gotcha.
Cali was speaking about entrance requirement issues exclusively.

About a month back, I was 'called out' by a poster for stating "as we all know, the SEC takes athletes with lesser GPA's", and "as we all know, the Big Ten schools have higher standards than the SEC schools"

I took Diamond's "its a start" to be generally recognizing that topic, and true, adding the competency of athletes once accepted.

But you say that Diamond was questioning the Big 10..?? Do you mean that UM means TSUN, and not Da U? I took both as references to U of M in Coral Gables. If the Kinesiology deal references an issue with TSUN instead of Da U, I missed that.

My bad Diamond.

 

[jwinslow]

But you say that Diamond was questioning the Big 10..?? Do you mean that UM means TSUN, and not Da U? I took both as references to U of M in Coral Gables. If the Kinesiology deal references an issue with TSUN instead of Da U, I missed that.

Ah now we're all on the same page. A large portion of UM footballers can be found in kinesiology, general studies or undecided. Here is a breakdown from a year or two ago.

 

[DiamondBuck]

I should slow down my reading? Gotcha.
Cali was speaking about entrance requirement issues exclusively.


I took Diamond's "its a start" to be generally recognizing that topic, and true, adding the competency of athletes once accepted.

But you say that Diamond was questioning the Big 10..?? Do you mean that UM means TSUN, and not Da U? I took both as references to U of M in Coral Gables. If the Kinesiology deal references an issue with TSUN instead of Da U, I missed that.

My bad Diamond.

Sorry I wasn't clear. BP members spend a lot of time arguing that Wolverine supporters are a bit hypocritical when they bring up Michigan's supposed superior academics as a selling point for recruits.

With regard to Coral Gables, I know that the U is not part of the SEC.. I did mention that I was making a tangential reference but the Hurricanes program is a prime illustration of the apparent disconnect between the academic level of the general student population and that of those who play Football.

 

[Gatorubet]

Sorry I wan't clear.

Nah man, you were clear on a Buckeye board. It was me.

I'm not as up to speed on Big 10 issues and never will be to the extent I am about the SEC.

 

[Muck]