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Vince Young (unemployed)

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Saw31 said:
That sure looks like what you meant. Do I think he is going to go into the NFL and start from day one? No. Very few do that anyway. But to claim this guy can't pass is kind of ridiculous. That pass to the endzone against us happened 20 feet from me, and it was an incredible pass. The guy can play QB at the next level, plain and simple. Is he the best QB out there, depends on what you're looking for. As jwins pointed out, his stats are markedly better than Vicks. Write that off to worse competition if you want, we can say their stats even out then (worst case scenario). He still compares favorably to Vick coming out of college. And as far as stupid mistakes go, he's still a junior in college. He's not in the NFL yet. Remember Peyton Mannings first year in the NFL? I think we can expect some improvement and progress. That's what you betting on whenever you draft someone...
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First off, I'm not at all fond of Vick's passing ability either. I've said that before. And his "I win games" excuse is starting to get old.
I expect him to start in the NFL, just not at QB. Compared to all of the other "elite" quarterbacks in the NCAA, he's below average as far as passing goes. And unless he greatly improves his accuracy and his ability to read coverages and defenses from now until whenever his combine/pro day is, I highly doubt any team will want him taking snaps for them.
 
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crazybuckfan40 said:
Name the real big homerun hitters on his team compared to say USC, that Lienhart has. I would take Bush, white, Jarret, Smith b4 the guys on Texas' O. the only guys I would think about takin would be Taylor and their TE, but then USC has Byrd.

I guess I just don't see is passing defeciencies as bad as you do.

And I am pretty sure I heard all these same things about Vick when he came out, but some how he took a not so good Falcons team to the playoffs and beat Brett Farve in Lambeau.
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Sweed, Pittman, Charles, Selvin Young. But when did I ever compare him Leinart anyway?

When I hear someone label a quarterback a top 10 or top 5 draft prospect, I expect the player be a great passer, not just a decent one.

And the Falcons were far from a bad team when Vick "took" them to the playoffs.
 
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VY is the fourth rated QB in the NCAA in passing efficiency. How does that make him inaccurate? I think this puts him right in there with the "elite"...

1. Drew Olsen..........172.47
2. Rudy Carpenter.....167.68
3. Brian Brohm..........166.73
4. Vince Young.........165.03
5. Brady Quinn..........162.90
6. Matt Leinart..........161.94
7. Phil Horvath..........159.23
8. Troy Smith...........158.45
 
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Saw31 said:
VY is the fourth rated QB in the NCAA in passing efficiency. How does that make him inaccurate? I think this puts him right in there with the "elite"...

1. Drew Olsen..........172.47
2. Rudy Carpenter.....167.68
3. Brian Brohm..........166.73
4. Vince Young.........165.03
5. Brady Quinn..........162.90
6. Matt Leinart..........161.94
7. Phil Horvath..........159.23
8. Troy Smith...........158.45
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I'm not really into the passer rating thing. I look at the actual statistics.
This is how VY's stats match up against the other possible NFL 2006 Draft prospects.
Vince Young - 168/268 (62.7%), 2,576 yards, 23 touchdowns, 9 interceptions
.......
Drew Olsen - 218/322 (67.7%), 2,909 yards, 30 touchdowns, 3 interceptions
Brady Quinn - 263/405 (64.9%), 3,633 yards, 32 touchdowns, 7 interceptions
Matt Leinart - 233/351 (66.4%), 3,217 yards, 24 touchdowns, 7 interceptions
Kellen Clemens - 185/289 (64%), 2,406 yards, 19 touchdowns, 4 interceptions
Colt Brennan - 325/478 (68%), 3,975 yards, 30 touchdowns, 7 interceptions
Cody Hodges - 338/499 (67.7%), 4,042 yards, 30 touchdowns, 12 interceptions

Like I said, the other NFL prospect QBs are leaps and bounds ahead of Young as far as passing goes.
 
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If VY's stats are disregarded for playing against awful defenses, then which of these QBs have stats that matter?

Olsen, Leinart, Clemens all play against non-defenses in the pac10.
Quinn's best opposing D is probably Michigan.
Colt Brennan (Hawaii) hasn't really faced anyone either
And Cody Hodges plays in that horrible big12.

Aren't their numbers inflated due to horrible defenses? I think most are fine QBs, and most are better true passers, but let's make this a fair argument.
 
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jwinslow said:
If VY's stats are disregarded for playing against awful defenses, then which of these QBs have stats that matter?

Olsen, Leinart, Clemens all play against non-defenses in the pac10.
Quinn's best opposing D is probably Michigan.
Colt Brennan (Hawaii) hasn't really faced anyone either
And Cody Hodges plays in that horrible big12.

Aren't their numbers inflated due to horrible defenses? I think most are fine QBs, and most are better true passers, but let's make this a fair argument.
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It's not my fault the majority of them play in weak defensive conferences.
I didn't say anything about VY's numbers being inflated anyway.
 
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no I know you didn't, I was merely responding to the overall debate (where people have been suggesting that point).

As suggested by others, I think Troy would put up some pretty big numbers if he played any of the schedules of those QBs.
 
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To me... Vince Young is a leader of his team. That is something you can not teach. Do you remember what happened to UT every year before VY took over at QB?

His running skills can not be ignored. His Rose Bowl game was as good a game TS had against scUM.

From what I've seen... he's a better passer than Mike Vick was at this stage in his career. He's gotta way to go to be as good as Leinart.
 
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jwinslow said:
He is definitely better than Vick was as a QB in college, and is harder to bring down than Vick (and a LOT more durable, Vick seems to get up slow after every scramble or two).
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Wow. Definitely better? Vick did not have a fraction of the offensive weapons VY utilizes and still made it to the NC game. He was the offense on that team and any form of running game was available due to his effect on the defense. More durable? I don't remember Vick ever being injured in college and the level of contact in the pros is not comparable to college...Jim Brown got up slowly after every run in his career. It was a purpsoseful tactic to cover his fatigue at any point...but I would definitely call him durable.
 
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If Young returns, he is a leading candidate for the Heisman but Bush also is around and the competition looks pretty hot elsewhere if Adrian Peterson is healthy, Troy Smith cranks it up and etc.

So, the return for the Heisman argument has a lot of risk attached to it.

The return and win a national championship argument may be more compelling, but, if they beat USC (and I think they will), then there also is the risk that they don't win and he has that to drag down his market value a bit.

If he comes in second in the Heisman and they win the national championship, my guess is that he goes to the NFL.
 
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a few points here.

1. throwing 3/4 doesnt hurt someone as badly when they're 6'5''.
2. VY is accurate on most short to mid range passes, despite what the preconceived notions are.
and probably the 2 most important things, which he will here plenty of i'm sure.
3. another year at texas wont do him any favors. mack and co. wont be fiddling with his motion. they wont be reworking his mechanics. he will be the same qb throwing the same way next year, behind a far less talented OL.
4. aside from leinart, there isnt a 1st round quality qb in this draft. next year he has to worry about quinn and brohm for starters, let alone anyone else that emerges.

there have been far worse qb's taken in the top 10 than young. there are a host of teams that need qb help in the near future that could take young and work with him for a year or two before starting him. a lot of those teams pick in the top 10. Outside of bush, leinart and deangelo williams, there isnt a lot of top notch offensive talent in this draft. staying an extra year will be kicking young's pocketbook in the balls.
 
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Those that say Young cannot be a top 10 pick, then how the heck did Vick go #1? Compare Vick to Young; Running ability you will have to say they are equal. Vick might be a tad bit more explosive. But what about their passing ability? I would say Young is light years ahead of Vick. Young is accurate on short & intermediate routes where NFL QBs make their living. Vick might have a better deep ball but that is about it.

Yes Young makes made decisions but so does Vick. Vick went #1 where Young will go top 10 mainly because of Leinhart.
 
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