tOSU Recruiting Discussion

[buddyguy]

The working number for 2017 is 20.

I don't think they'll advertise it (since it implies some attrition) but that's what the staff is planning for.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

Yes, drue is a 2017 recruit. No, that does not also erase cam as a senior.

There are many charts, like in the thread I'm about to link to avoid guesses :p like Warren ball, who is done this year and does not count nor erase any further spots from 2017. That already happened.

They aren't recruiting for merely 2-4 more spots. There will be plenty of attrition. I laid out a general breakdown here. This isn't specific but shoes you generally how they could end up there. I didn't include the glut of 6 TEs on scholarship, with find of them beginning this season with the same eligibility
Berger has since been announced as a medical hardship guy.

Firstly, I think we're both saying the same thing for drue/cam. I meant that since drue isn't included on the 2016 roster for the 85 but will be on the 2017 roster, cam graduating won't really open a spot for a 2017 kid. It's not 1-1 to open a spot for a new schollie in 17, it's 1-1+1 creating no new spot.

And just to clarify, you have numbers allotted for transfers/medical/being kicked off the team, but then also have numbers allotted to "OL" and "DL." would those players not fall under transfers/medical/being kicked off? You're assuming A TON of players leaving during a year where I wouldn't expect 9 early enrollees like we saw this year. Using your numbers, you have (roughly speaking) around 10-15 guys leaving other than through the draft. That's a crap ton of players "leaving." I usually estimate about 10 max, not 10 minimum. And that's including the draft, not excluding the draft. Obviously more this year due to 9 guys leaving for the draft, but I'd estimate on a more normal year 5 early entrees, 5 other early exits.

 

[bucknut11]

I'd estimate on a more normal year 5 early entrees, 5 other early exits.

3 NFL early entrees was the OSU record prior to this year. Expecting 5 on average is very ambitious.

And yes, I agree that some people are expecting a ton of players leaving via ways that we've historically classified as over-signing.

 

[jwinslow]

3
And yes, I agree that some people are expecting a ton of players leaving via ways that we've historically classified as over-signing.

I don't like it but I definitely expect it. The northern soapboxes caught fire a long time ago.

There are also degrees to it. The medicals, NFL departures and non renewed fourth year juniors are completely above board (medicals can be iffy but these hypothetical ones are not ).

Dismissing backups that screw up off the field is murky but probably the least evil of the remaining dismissals. This is also something every school of America did even before roster management was a common practice.

Where it gets sticky is being blunt with kids about where they are on the depth chart and encouraging that if they wish to play, it's in their best interest for them to move on. OSU has a ridiculous amount of offensive lineman and plan to add at least two more extremely talented ones with only one departing. Are they really going to keep all of those guys on scholarship especially when a guy like Pridgeon was added because some of the scholarship guys aren't cutting it?

 

[pnuts34]

With a big numbers crunch for 2017 forcing OSU to pick more top ranked OOS prospects, If they play it right MSU and UK can have a very scary class filled with a number of kids that other years would find a way into S&G like Danny Davis, Jigg Richardson, Jarell White, etc. I'm not saying their class will too OSU's but they'll have some very good quality that will make a run in a few years like this past one.

 

[bigdog3300]

With a big numbers crunch for 2017 forcing OSU to pick more top ranked OOS prospects, If they play it right MSU and UK can have a very scary class filled with a number of kids that other years would find a way into S&G like Danny Davis, Jigg Richardson, Jarell White, etc. I'm not saying their class will too OSU's but they'll have some very good quality that will make a run in a few years like this past one.

I agree with the premise but not that UK is going to be cleaning anything up - I don't see them holding onto most of their Ohio kids already. Now MSU/PSU I could see having that, and that has a trickle down effect for programs like Indiana....or it should, but they can't recruit soooo I guess not.

 

[NorthCoastKid]

I'm guessing scUM will be able to capitalize on a few Ohio kids this cycle as well (Bowden, Pugh, and Ajian to name a few).

 

[pnuts34]

I agree with the premise but not that UK is going to be cleaning anything up - I don't see them holding onto most of their Ohio kids already. Now MSU/PSU I could see having that, and that has a trickle down effect for programs like Indiana....or it should, but they can't recruit soooo I guess not.

I see Franklin going down in a blaze! And he hardly recruits OH. I can still envision UK keeping their kids and signing the lower 3star kids, their recruiting coordinator does his job.

I'm guessing scUM will be able to capitalize on a few Ohio kids this cycle as well (Bowden, Pugh, and Ajian to name a few).

I don't see scUM getting much of the lower tier guys, they'll be in the thick for some big names. As much as I hate to admit it, Hairball is doing a pretty good job recruiting. Dantonio is more of the do more with less coach, not Ballhair

 

[buddyguy]

And yes, I agree that some people are expecting a ton of players leaving via ways that we've historically classified as over-signing.

OSU can't simply "cut" players who aren't playing well since they give 4 year scholarships. The only ways that players can be removed from the roster are: medical hardship (and you need supporting documentation for that); academic failure (and you don't want that if you're a coach because that screws up your APR); violation of team rules; or not being invited back for a 5th year.

Now, a player can elect to leave on their own and that's where "the talk" comes in -- the player will be given a frank assessment of their performance and the depth chart and told they'll never play. But it's still up to the player to decide. Urban had "the talk" with Rod Smith and his parents a few years ago but Smith refused to leave. Urban later gave him credit for stepping up his game and staying out of trouble and said he became a real contributor. Unfortunately, after digging himself out of a hole Smith eventually failed another drug test and was gone.

 

[buckeye4ever21]

OSU can't simply "cut" players who aren't playing well since they give 4 year scholarships. The only ways that players can be removed from the roster are: medical hardship (and you need supporting documentation for that); academic failure (and you don't want that if you're a coach because that screws up your APR); violation of team rules; or not being invited back for a 5th year.

Now, a player can elect to leave on their own and that's where "the talk" comes in -- the player will be given a frank assessment of their performance and the depth chart and told they'll never play. But it's still up to the player to decide. Urban had "the talk" with Rod Smith and his parents a few years ago but Smith refused to leave. Urban later gave him credit for stepping up his game and staying out of trouble and said he became a real contributor. Unfortunately, after digging himself out of a hole Smith eventually failed another drug test and was gone.

I disagree because I've seen it happen before usually involving: effort, off field behavior, misgauged talent or not buying into a system. If it a player who has any of the above mentioned issues the coach will inform the player of his status and that they don't fit in anymore and at that point they go forward in opposite directions.

 

[jwinslow]

Firstly, I think we're both saying the same thing for drue/cam. I meant that since drue isn't included on the 2016 roster for the 85 but will be on the 2017 roster, cam graduating won't really open a spot for a 2017 kid. It's not 1-1 to open a spot for a new schollie in 17, it's 1-1+1 creating no new spot.

And just to clarify, you have numbers allotted for transfers/medical/being kicked off the team, but then also have numbers allotted to "OL" and "DL." would those players not fall under transfers/medical/being kicked off? You're assuming A TON of players leaving during a year where I wouldn't expect 9 early enrollees like we saw this year. Using your numbers, you have (roughly speaking) around 10-15 guys leaving other than through the draft. That's a crap ton of players "leaving." I usually estimate about 10 max, not 10 minimum. And that's including the draft, not excluding the draft. Obviously more this year due to 9 guys leaving for the draft, but I'd estimate on a more normal year 5 early entrees, 5 other early exits.

Drue is +1-1 which is already in the sheet. That was my point. It doesn't reduce the senior class further nor does Warren. Both hits are already accounted for.

Medicals are legitimate (at least my numbers).
Dismissals are screw ups (even if backups get less grace but that's life)
Transfers can be encouraged or guys that are discouraged. There is a ton of talent and much that will have to wait. Someone will probably bolt.
The two groups I highlighted just because there is a glut of bodies there. Obviously it's similar to the transfer category.

Most of all, look at this list. Almost all of these guys are buckeye leans or definite positional takes (someone else could replace them if things change ). They are recruiting with this many spots expected, meaning there will be plenty of attrition

My best guess on this class at this point (19 man class):

QB Danny Clark
RB Todd Sibley
WR Trevon Grimes
WR Jaylen Harris
WR Emmanuel Greene/Donovan Peoples-Jones
OL Josh Myers
OL Micah Clark
OL Jake Moretti
DT Darnell Ewell
DT Jerron Cage
LB Santino Marchiol
LB (player to be named)
CB Shaun Wade
CB Lamont Wade
CB Marcus Williamson
S Jeffrey Okudah
S/LB Isaiah Pryor
S/LB Brendon White
K Blake Haubeil

Emphasis in 2017 has got to be on defense... LB, S, and DT specifically

With fewer scholarship numbers, we've got to be SUPER picky about the quality of the guys we bring in (think Pete Carroll's USC recruiting classes). This would be a 4-5 5*, 14-15 4* class... unreal amount of talent, but surprisingly VERY realistic (DPJ is the only guy I'm remotely reaching for, and we're going to be in it until the very end for him). Would be hands-down the best DB class we have ever landed on paper. Would love to get a SDE/DT combo kind of player in this class as well, but I think I'm pushing it with 19 considering the amount of seniors on the team currently

 

[buddyguy]

I disagree because I've seen it happen before usually involving: effort, off field behavior, misgauged talent or not buying into a system. If it a player who has any of the above mentioned issues the coach will inform the player of his status and that they don't fit in anymore and at that point they go forward in opposite directions.

You may have seen it before OSU started giving 4 year scholarships (which began with the 2012 class). But for any player signed since then you haven't seen it happen simply at the coaches' discretion.

Again, if a player fails academically or violates team rules their scholarship can be terminated but not for something like "misgauged talent".

 

[sparcboxbuck]

You may have seen it before OSU started giving 4 year scholarships (which began with the 2012 class). But for any player signed since then you haven't seen it happen simply at the coaches' discretion.

Again, if a player fails academically or violates team rules their scholarship can be terminated but not for something like "misgauged talent".

Four years if a kid stays between the guardrails. Those guardrails can be subjective, no?

We don't know how it's going to play out, and we may never know the details, but we'll see what happens over the next 11 months.

 

[buddyguy]

Four years if a kid stays between the guardrails. Those guardrails can be subjective, no?

We don't know how it's going to play out, and we may never know the details, but we'll see what happens over the next 11 months.

Ohio State and Gene Smith were among the leaders in the move to 4 year scholarships to prevent "roster management" abuses. Some of the SEC schools were particularly guilty of over signing and cutting guys.

OSU's written offer letter explicitly lays out a 4 year scholarship dependent on academic performance and meeting team rules (which are also in writing). Given the scrutiny OSU has brought to this issue I don't see any way legally or ethically they can simply cut a kid.

They can and will still have "the talk" with kids who have been recruited over and won't play. But the kids have the final say if they're meeting academic standards and not violating team rules. As I mentioned above, Urban had the talk with Rod Smith and his dad a few years back, telling them that Rod would never play at OSU and he should move on. Smith refused to leave so he stayed on the team for another year (before ultimately failing another drug test and then getting the boot).

 

[sparcboxbuck]

Ohio State and Gene Smith were among the leaders in the move to 4 year scholarships to prevent "roster management" abuses. Some of the SEC schools were particularly guilty of over signing and cutting guys.

OSU's written offer letter explicitly lays out a 4 year scholarship dependent on academic performance and meeting team rules (which are also in writing). Given the scrutiny OSU has brought to this issue I don't see any way legally or ethically they can simply cut a kid.

They can and will still have "the talk" with kids who have been recruited over and won't play. But the kids have the final say if they're meeting academic standards and not violating team rules. As I mentioned above, Urban had the talk with Rod Smith and his dad a few years back, telling them that Rod would never play at OSU and he should move on. Smith refused to leave so he stayed on the team for another year (before ultimately failing another drug test and then getting the boot).

Yup, I think you'll find that most of us here are all well aware of all of that. That said, we'll see how it plays out. Personally, I think, to your point, there will be a higher number of hard conversations the coaches have in the next 11 months... Time will ultimately tell.

/story