Fungo Squiggly
Mortal enemy of all things Bucky
Yahoo Pickem Champ
Former Game Champion
'18 BPCFFB II Champ
'18 Keeper League Champ
Bad news? Can't it wait until after the weekend?
Upvote
0
-
Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
- Thread starter MD Buckeye
- Start date
Bad news? Can't it wait until after the weekend?
A holiday weekend, no less. Joesus would be rolling over in his grave if he hadn't already risen from the dead and ascended to the coaches box.
Upvote
0
cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
I'm conflicted here. I believed the addition of Penn State to the Big Ten to be a good thing - and I still do. At last they would have to play a schedule with "rivals" made of sterner stuff than Maryland, Syracuse and Pitt and an occasional game against Notre Dame or Ohio State. They brought in another big stadium - more revenue - more media coverage in the Philly - NYC market. I saw and still see at least those three ways in which they benefited the conference and Ohio State.
At the same time I could see how it would impact PSU. The move cost them long time rivalries, but those rivalries represented a time when Eastern football was much better than it has been for the last forty years, when Syracuse, Maryland and Pitt produced solid teams and regularly sent players to the NFL. I didn't realize that Syracuse, Maryland and Pitt wanted nothing to do with forming a conference with Penn State.
So they upgraded their schedule. They increased their road revenues. They rose from the depths of academic mediocrity to a point where they are competing with Ohio State (a school that also moved up academically once they got Millet and Jim Rhodes off their throat). And they had a conference to help them expand their other sports. What they lacked was a rivalry, especially the game with Pitt. That they would look at Ohio State to fill that gap seems only logical. That the sense of rivalry has not been reciprocated has much to do with the lack of history between the two teams and the depth of the rivalry between Ohio State and Michigan. There is no ancient border dispute. There are no memories of when Harley beat the Wolverines, or Harmon embarrassed the Buckeyes, to draw upon. Rarely does the conference championship hinge on the outcome of the Penn State - Ohio State game.
Penn State and Paterno found out they weren't going to be the king of the Big Ten, but they've been consistently more competitive than everyone in the Big Ten except Ohio State and Michigan. Their ability to stay on the field with most Big Ten programs despite the very serious penalties levied by the NCAA is a tribute to their base.
The facts behind the Sandusky story are disturbing at the very least. The comments in BWI don't help, but I can't bring myself to believe that they are the thoughts and statements of the majority of Penn State alums. In my mind, I'm more concerned about the Michigan game than I will ever be about the game with Penn State, but I will always see Penn State as the second or third most important game on the schedule. Not a bad place to be.
At the same time I could see how it would impact PSU. The move cost them long time rivalries, but those rivalries represented a time when Eastern football was much better than it has been for the last forty years, when Syracuse, Maryland and Pitt produced solid teams and regularly sent players to the NFL. I didn't realize that Syracuse, Maryland and Pitt wanted nothing to do with forming a conference with Penn State.
So they upgraded their schedule. They increased their road revenues. They rose from the depths of academic mediocrity to a point where they are competing with Ohio State (a school that also moved up academically once they got Millet and Jim Rhodes off their throat). And they had a conference to help them expand their other sports. What they lacked was a rivalry, especially the game with Pitt. That they would look at Ohio State to fill that gap seems only logical. That the sense of rivalry has not been reciprocated has much to do with the lack of history between the two teams and the depth of the rivalry between Ohio State and Michigan. There is no ancient border dispute. There are no memories of when Harley beat the Wolverines, or Harmon embarrassed the Buckeyes, to draw upon. Rarely does the conference championship hinge on the outcome of the Penn State - Ohio State game.
Penn State and Paterno found out they weren't going to be the king of the Big Ten, but they've been consistently more competitive than everyone in the Big Ten except Ohio State and Michigan. Their ability to stay on the field with most Big Ten programs despite the very serious penalties levied by the NCAA is a tribute to their base.
The facts behind the Sandusky story are disturbing at the very least. The comments in BWI don't help, but I can't bring myself to believe that they are the thoughts and statements of the majority of Penn State alums. In my mind, I'm more concerned about the Michigan game than I will ever be about the game with Penn State, but I will always see Penn State as the second or third most important game on the schedule. Not a bad place to be.
Upvote
0
Taosman
Your Cousin In New Mexxico
By that game their offensive line could be in full retreat! Will "the Best QB in college football" have survived by then? Buckeye defenders will have their jerseys in rags from all the holding! We may not score 64 on them but it shouldn't be close in the fourth quarter.
Upvote
0
and that is why they aren't even a fringe rival. They aren't on par with Wisconsin or Michigan state in that regard.
no, they have won titles on a northwestern pace. They rested on their laurels and cronyism until their recruiting was laughably mediocre for most of a decade. They have a historic program in a good footprint for talent and yet they couldn't land high level talent if Pittsburgh wanted them too.
They came in arrogant and overconfident and couldn't navigate the rigors of a competent conference and schedule despite having only two above average recruiting schools in the whole league.
The impact of the sanctions is such overblown martyrdom. They ruined themselves with their failures. All the sanctions did was turn a very mediocre team into a bad one.
that is what they should be, not what they usually are.
Upvote
0
CincyInterloper
Hall of Fame
"The last two times these teams met were last year's public embowelment of Penn State . . ."
I think the word is disembowelment.
Upvote
0
The stupidity you see on BWI absolutely does reflect the vast majority of the PeD State alumnus. This will change over time as the new kids graduating from the school won't have been ruined by the cult of Pedterno, but that's going to be decades.
And if you take into account their history (and ignore their schedule while they made said history), they should be the second or third most important game on the schedule. This year they're 5th and that's being generous (and thinking Minnesota is going to take a step back)....for the past 2 decades it's been scUM, Wisky, Sparty and Ped State, in that order, except an every once in a while year when their mediocre recruiting has been good enough to produce a ten win season.
Ped State is not a power any longer and they really will never be a true rival to Ohio State.
Upvote
0
cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Then who are the "true rivals?" There have only been two teams on our schedule every year until this year. The other "big game," Illinois, faded long ago. I don't see Rutgers and Maryland becoming rivals anytime soon. I don't get anywhere near as vexed about Michigan State as I do Michigan OR Penn State.
Upvote
0
buckeyesin07
Veni. Vidi. Vici.
We have one rival. I'll never understand OSU fans that feel the need to endlessly search for another.
Upvote
0
cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
There were years - late 60s and 70s when I certainly felt that way. There were years - the 90s - when I wished that I hadn't felt that way. The expansion has already watered down the rest of the conference sense of rivalry and the CCG and division alignments are eating into the Michigan game.
Upvote
0
PSU should have become a rival. The first dozen years (after they joined) had a lot of classic moments, especially under Tressel (01 Zach Mills, 02 Gamble, 03 comeback/PSU FG just short, 05 Rail/Whitehout, 06 Heisman moment, 07 Whiteout silenced, 08 pryor fumble, 09 pryor returns home and gets revenge) and in the mid-00s they seemed poised to emerge as the third team in the league. Instead they imposed mediocrity on themselves with lousy recruiting and mediocre coaching.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Who ever said Ohio State needs another rival other than Michigan? Rivalries aren't borne out of media want or simply because the team is geographically in the same area. There has to be some spark, some hate, some sort of REASON for a rivalry. It's just not there in this case.
There are no quotes from Woody Hayes about going for 3 and having your soul cleansed by having the hell kicked out of you. Why? Because the focus and almost solely been upon TTUN. Ped State and its pedophile-enabling administration and coaching staff built their legacy on beating Rutgers and Syracuse and the Little Sisters of the Poor.
Maybe, if Ped State righted the ship, it might become a minor rivalry in a couple decades, but that won't happen.
You're wishing for a conference in a time that is long past and a rivalry that just isn't, and won't, be there.
Upvote
0
cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Yeah, but... not disagreeing just to be disagreeing with you. First, while I like the notion of Penn State being a rival, that does not mean that I like how the Sandusky issue was handled, or the craziness of the folks who post on BWI.
I also don't think ANY of the top twenty-five programs in the US - including Ohio State and Michigan - got there by seeking out tough competition. They've all feasted on the Kentuckys, Indianas, Wake Forests, Tulanes, Baylors, Northwesterns, K-States, Kansases, MACs, Big Skys, Wazoos, Okie States of this world to make their mark.
The quotes you cite from Woody both came from a time when the Big Ten was Ohio State and Michigan, period. In that sense, Penn State playing Syracuse, Maryland, Pitt and Notre Dame was pretty much equal to, or better than Ohio State's single game season with Michigan.
I think it comes down to a definition of 'rival.' To me it's important that there is sense of history to it - which Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan have, but Penn State does not. A rival program has to have a long standing winning tradition which Michigan and Penn State have, but is sadly missing from Illinois and Wisconsin. Penn State has been up and down in the twenty some years it has been in the Big Ten. But Ohio State didn't exactly set the world on fire in the mid 60s, 80s and some of the 90s either. As far as the overall quality of the "rivalry" games, Penn State's record compares with the rest, Since 1993 the Buckeyes have been 13 - 7 against Penn State, 12 - 8 - against Michigan, 11 - 5- 1 against Wisconsin, 11 - 4 against Michigan State, 13 - 4 with Illinois. Further, when Penn State was supposedly a weaker schedule they managed to beat OSU five times - 56 -63 - 64 - 78 - 80.
The difference between rivalry and the definition of 'rival' seems to me to be more about history than on-the-field results. It also seems to reflect a collective revulsion - yours, mine, and the rest of BP - over the facts and evidents coming out of Happy Valley. Separating the way the program was run and the way their fan base reacted, it seems to me that Penn State is a game worthy of the term "rivalry."
Upvote
0