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tOSU Indiscretions of May (Mega Merge)

So far during his tenure at tOSU, every player who has publicly gotten in trouble has received punishment.

There are too ways to look at everything JT does.
JT always says he treats his players like family, that means second chances.
Sounds like the kids mentioned at YSU used their second chance wisely.
Or you could look at it in your light, that he did that only to win.
I personally believe that he does it to make these guys better men in the long run.
 
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nobody has ever accused the average Buckeye fan of being intelligent.
I am going on record to accuse the average Buckeye fan of being intelligent.

Now Tibor will need a new line in order to accurately attempt slander of a large group of people, including many on this board.
 
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kn1f3party said:
I think a lot of problems at Youngstown State have to do with the fact it's Youngstown.

What the hell is that supposed to mean buddy!!!! I have lived in the Youngstown area most of my life and let me tell you something, you'll not find a city that's more.........uhhhh, never mind. You're pretty much right.
 
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Not to be a jerk to those who are good people in youngstown, but weren't Irizarry and MoC both from Ytown?

Tell me, since you seem to know so much, what exactly did pittman do to get in the doghouse and fall behind Hall/Ross (which is embarrassing, btw, I love the guys but they stunk it up)? Cuz by your accusations he would have never been in trouble for being late to video sessions as the kid clearly has great talent...
 
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paladin1aa said:
Lots of questions. Answers (i think to most) -- RB at Canton McKinley was Adrian Brown who should have been a D-I recruit. Big boys wouldn't touch him because he was involved in a Raymond Williams ( Benedictine) situation in H.S. Brown was relatively free of trouble at YSU , but was watched closely. Became YSU leading rusher.

Patton, the player involved in sexual assault was taken back on the team after being released from prison. Know of no punishment. Fortunately, YSU lost their record breaking rusher and another 1000 yd back , but released ( presto), ,Patton became the leading rusher and took the team to the play-offs.
The NCAA investigation ( Tressel was the AD as well) was stalled long enough that statue of limitations expired and a national title was spared( miraculously). But the former YSU Prez swears he was lied to( during investigation).

Let me sum up, Tressel "disciplined " players, some when he had a public knowing what was going on. Others ?? A game suspension here or there.Few players dismissed ( but there were some). And a serious question needs to be asked -- did the "discipline" hurt the team from winning ??

Wow, did you back off your initial accusation or what?!

Big schools backed off of Brown because they thought he'd be a problem, and lo and behold he goes to YSU, stays out of trouble, and becomes a solid player.

Patton, again, was not pointed out by you as "guilty"...according to you he was "involved" in sexual assault and released "without punishment".

I recall an NCAA investigation that came about due to statement made by a Y-Town mafia boss during a federal trial. The NCAA investigation wasn't even mandatory because the statutes had passed, but Tressel submitted one anyways, and was subsequently lauded by the NCAA.

Tressel did discipline players for their transgressions, and you turn around and imply that was wrong. In your eyes, JT can do no right.
 
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This is all very thought-provoking. As paladin said, Tressel is definitely a PR genious, but the question boils down to "Is that to promote something or to hide something?" I understand people asking this question seriously, as I have been in recent months.


To answer that in my own mind, I can only go by what my father in-law, who was also an Ohio HS coach, played for Jim's father, and is still close to his family, has told me, which is that his desire to create and foster a "football family" (and not "Win at all Costs, which implies Bellichek-like mercenarism) is 100% genuine, in part because that's the way his father was. So, that much, in terms of his motivation, I believe myself. However, I do think one can analyze and criticize the methods and criteria that he uses to foster this family. As Mili said, he worked at Youngstown, one of the toughest operations to run, for a long time, where you're going to get anything but "boy scouts". So one possibility is that Coach's philosophy revolves around taking "problem" players and turning them around, using the football opportunity to get them an education and turn them onto the correct path. Of course, this transition will not occur magically and definitively. It is a process, which requires a great deal of patience, and probably a great many screw-ups. We talk of these being "18-22 year old kids" but if they've had problems before college, then they're more like 15-17 year old kids, not beyond hope but in need of a real chance to straighten out. Perhaps Tressel feels it is his calling to use the football family to eventually get through to these kids and mold them into responsible adults...to be a stable family, something that a lot of these kids didn't have before they got to him. So, maybe he recruits some of these kids fully expecting they will run afoul at some point, but hoping that he can teach discipline, understanding consequences, and the personal responsibility necessary to make better choices. That way, by the time they're seniors, they leave his program as well-adjusted adults, having come from being problem children. I think everyone is so cynical these days that some refuse to believe that the coach cares at all for the humans they are molding...just for the yards they gain, which I refuse to believe, given the coach in my family and the other coaches I had and know.

Now, all that said, the circumstances are very different at OSU than they were at Youngstown, obviously. I care about our beloved university's reputation as much as anyone here, because I am taking my PhD and attempting to hit the "big time" job soon. Anyone who doesn't think that our university takes a PR drubbing with each passing incident has their head in the sand. Fair or not, the average person sees the atheletes, not the mathematics students, and that's how the university is judged by the casual observer. In this way, I question Tressel's methods, because as a PR genious, he has managed to deflect much of the criticism (until recently), but the program's and university's reputation has suffered significantly in the eyes of many outside Ohio. If Tressel wants to mold troubled young men, it is his right to do so (and I'm not rendering him "Saint Jim" because those troubled young men also help him beat Michigan, win bowl games, and weave his PR dream machine). However, I think more sturdy guidelines need to be set, and I think more tangible punishment needs to be enacted. It makes me sick to my stomach everytime I hear Bowden say "I won't punish the star player, because it isn't fair to everyone else that's trying to win". I don't want a program like that, and I hope Tressel doesn't, either. I think he needs to do more on the consequences end, but he won't kick people off the team for minor infractions, because it is against his philosophy, IMO, nor do I think he should. Parents won't send their kids somewhere they will be cut loose if the get a minor citation or get in a scuffle...but they generally do want their children to grow up and face consequences for their actions, and it is possible to discipline the players without resorting to cutting them loose, which would be the mercenary-like mentality that we really don't want in our college program. I am not excusing Tressel, or the players at all. We're never going to get 105 kids at once who never do anything wrong. We need to go down a path where players face consequences, but have a chance to learn from their mistakes. I hope Coach moves down this path immediately...for the good of our program, the good of the players, and for the good of the university.
 
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I personally know the Shawn Patton story. Shawn's dad, the late Melvin Land, graduated with my wife. I would like to know if the poster who raised the Patton story knows the whole story.

Adrian Brown had zero criminal record or involvement. ZERO.

Humphries is the DE referred to who was shot and killed in a drive by. Humphries was a 1-AA all-American, was an honor student, and had never been involved in criminal activity.

As far as the Monus/Phar Mor/Iasac situation, Tressel did not become the athletic director until after the NCAA had done its first round of investigations. When the Monus trial in Cleveland revealed Iasac was shaking down jurors that led to Monus' first trial ending with a mistrial, Tressel and YSU became aware that Iaasac had a relation with Monus dating back to Iaasac's playing days at YSU. Iasac testified at Monus' second trial that Monus gave him money and cars while Iaasac played at YSU. YSU promptly reported this to the NCAA. Again, I am waiting to hear the rest of the story from what was posted originally in this thread.
 
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LightningRod said:
As far as the Monus/Phar Mor/Iasac situation, Tressel did not become the athletic director until after the NCAA had done its first round of investigations. When the Monus trial in Cleveland revealed Iasac was shaking down jurors that led to Monus' first trial ending with a mistrial, Tressel and YSU became aware that Iaasac had a relation with Monus dating back to Iaasac's playing days at YSU. Iasac testified at Monus' second trial that Monus gave him money and cars while Iaasac played at YSU. YSU promptly reported this to the NCAA. Again, I am waiting to hear the rest of the story from what was posted originally in this thread.
From personal experience, you spend 15 minutes with Ray and you know what you are dealing with....

However, he did have the ability to in touch with JT whenever he wanted...and he also always held steadfast to the point that JT was 100% of what was happening at YSU. He said his trust was taken advantage of very frequently.
 
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Tressel knew about Ray's family background before he signed him at YSU, but I don't understand how Tressel could have known that the President of YSU's Board of Trustees was going to provide Ray with money and cars. I also do not understand how Tressel could have known that Ray would shake down jurors after he had left YSU. As for Monus, he not only put Phar Mor into bankruptcy with his embezzlement, he also had Coopers & Lybrand, Phar Mor's auditors and what was then a Big 6 accounting firm, on the financial ropes as a result of his lying and scheming. If the man can hide things from a top auditing firm, why is it so unbelievable to think that he could do the same with a college football coach? From the Cincinnati paper a few years ago:

While Isaac said Tressel let "Ray be Ray" -- he "knew where I came from and what I was about, that on my mom's side there had been criminal backgrounds; on my dad's, I had four aunts with (college) degrees" -- Isaac claimed the coach "never, ever" knew anything of his rules-breaking involvements.

"Mickey assured me Tressel wouldn't find out and I don't think he did. I didn't stick it in his face," Isaac said. "I wouldn't drive the fancy cars around campus or in the white suburbs. If I was going to Boardman or Poland or someplace like that, I'd have a smaller car, a Subaru, an Acura. But when I was going out of town, say like to a George Clinton concert in Pittsburgh or coming down to Central State for a block party, I had the big cars. You think somebody there was gonna call Jim Tressel?

Archdeacon's Article About Isaac

When the NCAA completed its first investigation at YSU, Tressel was not the AD as was stated earlier in this thread. He did not have the complete power over the athletic department that is the logical inference from that statement. I also fail to see the relevance of Tressel being a candidate for the Maryland job. He was also in the running for the Miami Hurricane job the resulted in the hiring of Butch Davis as well as being mentioned for a few other jobs.

As an alum I am not pleased at all about the number of things that have happened at OSU over the past few years. To take it to another level as was done in this thread is equally troubling.

Archdeacon's Article About Isaac
 
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bordering on slander:
  1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
  2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
I am curious as to the direction of this thread as it relates to the BP vision.....I thought recruits, players and coaches were not to be subjected to unsubstantiated opinions and criticism......
 
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Alan said:
When I played we had a couple week run with a few guys getting in trouble....

The ENTIRE team was rewarded with a 10 p.m. curfew (7 nights a week) for the next 30 days.....and the ENTIRE team ran every morning at 6 a.m. for two weeks straight....the only guys that didn't run were the four guys that got in trouble.....they had to watch their teammates run....

think the few guys that got in trouble ever did anything wrong again?
Thanks for that, Alan. That's exactly what needs to happen again. Also, there is a need to get the football team back into a Stadium Dorm situation.

Alan said:
bordering on slander:
  1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
  2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
I am curious as to the direction of this thread as it relates to the BP vision.....I thought recruits, players and coaches were not to be subjected to unsubstantiated opinions and criticism......
And so did I. I find this thread quite disturbing and ugly because it is filled with both.
 
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This why I hate message boards. You offer opinions and info and people come after you. Answers --
Former H .S. HFC
Brown, correctly, wasn't "guilty" of anything, just being "involved " with the wrong crowd. "Character" was his question mark and why big schools avoided him.
I know the Patton story. Black athlete,white girl. I was not on the jury. He was found guilty.

Enough !! I simply raised some info for several reasons --

1) I don't believe for one minute that JT doesn't "discipline" athletes, but I question his "effectiveness" and willingness to "control" a program.
2) Great athletic ability and poor character are common in some Tressel recruits
3) The "facts" of the YSU NCAA investigation "smells". The former YSU Prez reported the "internal investigation" that Tressel and a retiring AD did. He was assured YSU was "clean". That turned out not to be the fact and NO INTERNAL INVESTIGATION was actually done. When the YSU prez reported to NCAA the "findings" only to discover the actual facts, he has publicly stated he was lied to.
4) What is now relevant -- what is OSU going to do to bring control to the program and its players ?? Winning at all costs ??
 
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