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Game Thread Tostitos Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State 34, Notre Dame 20 (final)

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BrutusMaximus said:
I would much rather play ND than Oregon, wasnt defending Oregon at all. Just burns my ass that ND is so loved, and the media spends most of the year blowing Weis, just like they did Willingham. You seem like you know your stuff though Clash - I tend to have more of a problem with some of their "fans" who dont know shit about football and basically ignore the fact that football exists unless ND is having a great year, then they all of a sudden "reappear" Though I realize that not all of em are like that. I am lookin forward to the game. 2 great traditions. I still watch the games from 95-96 every so often. Although I know they dont have happy memories for ND fans in them :biggrin:
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I'm not blind to the fact that ND gets special consideration. It's a fair complaint. All I would say is that when things are bad, we get truly hammered as well. The bad always comes with the good......and Davieham put us through alot of bad.

Oregon fans have a right to bitch, but I think both ND and OSU (and Auburn) are better teams.

As far as the bandwagon goes......just know that we veterans who have stuck it out the last 8 years hate it as well. The naive arrogance at NDNation & UHND that started in Sept. has been nauseating.
 
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Clashmore Mike said:
My complaint was meant to be construed in terms of "deserve"....as in ND getting the invite over the ducks. Sure we could join the big 10 and have a chance at going via automatic invite. We could also join the big east and have the same opporutnity.

While winning the big ten would certainly be more challenging, it would get us the same BCS spot. In the words of one William Munny "....deserve has got nothin to do with it....."
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and therein lies the deep seeded animosity of many towards the Dome... YES, ND was qualified to receive a BCS bid, but how DO they 'deserve' it? are they REALLY any more qualifed than other 'qualified' teams such as Oregon, LSU, Miami or Auburn? the fact is that Notre Dame DOES NOT deserve it any more than those teams, but get the bid because they are ND... ND gets exemptions because it's ND... no other team gets those breaks... it is not an equal playing field... add in to that the fact that next year ND gets a piece of the BCS payout- EVEN IF THEY DON'T GET A BCS BID- and people get even more miffed at the preferential treatment... everyone hates the teachers pet, and siblings always torture the 'baby' or the 'favorite.' it's a fact of life...

as for Ohio State fans hating ND, the collective Ohio State memory is still bitter about the '35 and '36 games and the fact that ND deemed itsself to be 'above' scheduling Ohio State, to the degree that despite being natural regional rivals, ND has declined all overtures from Ohio State to keep the series open... after the '95 and '96 games, Ohio State again attempted to keep the series going, and again the Dome refused...

Ohio State fans hates ND because they perceive ND's reluctance to schedule Ohio State as arrogance...

and i'm not even going to get into how annoying it is to grow up in Columbus and have to listen to all these obnoxious Irish homers blather on and on and on and on about how much better ND is than Ohio State without ever getting the chance to actually prove it on the field...Ohio State fans hate m*ch*g*n, but at least the Buckeyes get to play them every year... Ohio State fans' hate for ND just simmers and percolates and brews and grows because the Buckeyes don't get the chance to play the Domers... did i mention the part about it being a natural regional rivalry? the Dome plays the Sparties, and UM, and Purdue, and Indiana, and Illinois, but they won't play Ohio State... and Ohio State fans get bitter because they have to listen to all this crap, yet are never given the opportunity to see how they actually stack up...

it's like listening to the kids talk about how badass the one neighbor kid is, but never actually getting to knock his block off, because every time you ring his doorbell his mother lies and says, "Billy's not home."

ND's attitude towards Ohio State has traditionally been that of "you're not good enough to play us." Ohio State's attitude has traditionally been "well if you arrogant pricks would stop talking about how great you are, and actually PLAY US, then we'll knock your freaking dicks right in the dirt- or are you too scared?"

i hope that makes sense...

man, i can't wait for this game... i think i'm more excited about this game than i was about playing the Canes for the National Championship...
 
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lvbuckeye said:
it's like listening to the kids talk about how badass the one neighbor kid is, but never actually getting to knock his block off, because every time you ring his doorbell his mother lies and says, "Billy's not home."
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:slappy: It's funny 'cause it's true.

I can't wait for this game. I requested the day off today at work. No distractions for this game.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
and therein lies the deep seeded animosity of many towards the Dome... YES, ND was qualified to receive a BCS bid, but how DO they 'deserve' it? are they REALLY any more qualifed than other 'qualified' teams such as Oregon, LSU, Miami or Auburn? the fact is that Notre Dame DOES NOT deserve it any more than those teams, but get the bid because they are ND... ND gets exemptions because it's ND... ...
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Two spots.

Per your post, five qualified teams (I assume you consider OSU qualified): ND / Oregon / LSU / Auburn / Miami / Ohio St.

So no matter what, four of the teams you mentioned get left out. Take Notre Dame out of the equation. Three of the teams you mentioned get left out. This is essentially what you're bitching about.

Would Oregon fans feel good if Auburn got a spot instead of ND?
 
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Clashmore Mike said:
Will Carpenter be back? The ND boards are freaking out with speculation.

I think ND will stick with short passes if they are available to us. IMO, for ND to win we will need to control TOP. Keep Smith from getting hot and/or into a groove.......also, your defense will be less and less athletic if we can keep them on the field.

Turnovers in this game will kill Notre Dame.
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All indications point to Carpenter sitting this one out.

If ND sticks to shorter passes its a huge win for OSU, despite the added wear and tear on our secondary. I’m much more confident in our ability to tackle ND's receivers than I am in our ability to cover them beyond 15 yards, <st1:state w:st="on">Minnesota</st1:state> and to even an extent <st1:state w:st="on"><st1 ="">Texas</st1> </st1:state>is the best example of this.

Turnovers will spell defeat for either team, although i feel either team could yield a few as long as they don’t give the other team excellent field position (inside the 45).
 
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wells said:
All indications point to Carpenter sitting this one out.

If ND sticks to shorter passes its a huge win for OSU, despite the added wear and tear on our secondary. I’m much more confident in our ability to tackle ND's receivers than I am in our ability to cover them beyond 15 yards, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:State w:st="on">Minnesota</st1:State> and to even an extent <st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Texas</ST1:place></st1:State> is the best example of this.

Turnovers will spell defeat for either team, although i feel either team could yield a few as long as they don’t give the other team excellent field position (inside the 45).
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What's you're special teams play like? I know Ginn is a dangerous return man.

Ours has been spotty. Last year was ridiculous and we've made huge improvements. Coverage has been decent. We've got a very dangerous punt returner in Tommy Z. Our KO's are rarely touchbacks, but we have been pretty good with regard to field goals & pat's........that is all a wash right now as Syracuse roughed our kicker and he's injured. No word whether he'll be able to play on 1/2.


We won't be making the same mistake Mich. St. pulled......sorry.
 
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Clashmore Mike said:
Two spots.

Per your post, five qualified teams (I assume you consider OSU qualified): ND / Oregon / LSU / Auburn / Miami / Ohio St.

So no matter what, four of the teams you mentioned get left out. Take Notre Dame out of the equation. Three of the teams you mentioned get left out. This is essentially what you're bitching about.

Would Oregon fans feel good if Auburn got a spot instead of ND?
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i won't disagree with what you said for one second. and i'm not bithching aobut it... but, perception is reality, as they say, and if people percieve preferential treatment, they're gonna resent it...

and that point you just made was one reason that a playoff at the end of the season won't ever solve anything either... there will always be people arguing whether the #s 6, 7, and 8 teams are really more deserving than the #s 9, 10, and 11 teams...

it's all bullshit and speculation anyway... i don't care one way or another if ND is 3-8 and gets a BCS bid, as long as they didn't get Ohio State's... and that's pretty much everyone else's opinion too... people are indifferent until they perceive someone else (ND) getting preferential treatment that screws them over (Oregon)... do you get that?

i'm happier than a pig in shit that the Buckeyes get to play the Irish... no Christmas treats for me this year... my present is a trip to Tempe...
 
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lvbuckeye said:
i won't disagree with what you said for one second. and i'm not bithching aobut it... but, perception is reality, as they say, and if people percieve preferential treatment, they're gonna resent it...

and that point you just made was one reason that a playoff at the end of the season won't ever solve anything either... there will always be people arguing whether the #s 6, 7, and 8 teams are really more deserving than the #s 9, 10, and 11 teams...

it's all bullshit and speculation anyway... i don't care one way or another if ND is 3-8 and gets a BCS bid, as long as they didn't get Ohio State's... and that's pretty much everyone else's opinion too... people are indifferent until they perceive someone else (ND) getting preferential treatment that screws them over (Oregon)... do you get that?

i'm happier than a pig in shit that the Buckeyes get to play the Irish... no Christmas treats for me this year... my present is a trip to Tempe...
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That's fair. Especially this: "... i don't care one way or another if ND is 3-8 and gets a BCS bid, as long as they didn't get Ohio State's... "

Alot of teams can make cases, but there's only so many spots......


It's been fun, but I gotta run. Will check in with you guys later this week.


GO IRISH!!!
 
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Clashmore Mike said:
What's you're special teams play like? I know Ginn is a dangerous return man.

Ours has been spotty. Last year was ridiculous and we've made huge improvements. Coverage has been decent. We've got a very dangerous punt returner in Tommy Z. Our KO's are rarely touchbacks, but we have been pretty good with regard to field goals & pat's........that is all a wash right now as Syracuse roughed our kicker and he's injured. No word whether he'll be able to play on 1/2.


We won't be making the same mistake Mich. St. pulled......sorry.
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Well, until the Michigan game I'd say our special teams was a force to be reckoned with. Granted, the scUM game was an anomaly, so if you take that out of the picture, expect good punts from A.J. Trapasso, a touchback almost everytime Josh Huston kicks it (and when it comes to FG's is very consistent as well). For kick returns we have as of late put our three fastest WR's (Holmes, Ginn, and Anthony Gonzales) in a diamond formation. If you pooch punt it, Holmes or Gonzo will get it, if you kick it deep, Ginn gets it. For punts Holmes and Ginn are back there and some will say Holmes has had a better year with the PR's. Ginn of course ran a KR 100 yards for a TD at Minnesota. One soft area of our special teams probably is our kick return coverage. The guys are so used to Huston kicking it out the endzone that having someone actually field a KR is quite the rare event.
 
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LOL... lots of rep for clashmore... it took me 1,000 posts to get that much...

if ND doesn't kick touchbacks, the Buckyes will have great field postion... well, on the opening kickoff of the second half... we all know the Domers won't score on the Silver Bullets... :p
 
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I honestly see Ohio St. winning this one by about 2 touchdowns. Our defense is one of the best in the nation and our offense is becoming an elite on. We also have one of the best special teams units if not the best in the nation. Darius Walker won't get squat on the ground so ND will have to rely on their passing game. My early prediction: OSU 34 ND 20. I'm still a little nervous about our secondary but I think with the time off they'll get healthier and come up big for us. This is my first OSU/ND game of, hopefully, many more to come.
 
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