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Game Thread Tostitos Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State 34, Notre Dame 20 (final)

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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
JT went 7-5 his first year with a ton more talent.
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One, JT had a far, far more difficult schedule (@UCLA, @PSU, @UM). Two, I think you're being awfully generous with the "a ton more talent" statement. Reggie Germany? Ken-Yon Rambo? Steve Bellisari? OSU players were suing other OSU players. 2nd stringers were sitting on the sidelines at bowl games pouting because they didn't get PT, as if it were their birthright when the team hadn't even gone to a bowl the year before. I think you're understating what a mess the program was headed for.

For all the grief Willingham has endured, it's not as though he didn't recruit many, many fine young athletes. The cupboard was hardly bare for Weis, and the players Ty was going after aren't so much square peg/round hole as what Callahan is dealing with at Nebraska.

My two cents: I'm frustrated with hearing the "Notre Dame plays such a tough schedule" arguments. I was fed up with the "Charlie has four Super Bowl rings" crapola not even a week after his hiring was announced. ND fans were hailing the hire and ready to paint Weis's visage overtop of Touchdown Jesus before he'd even coached a game.

For me, it's a happy ending to the only program that somehow managed to exceed even USC on the hypemeter this year, and I'm just tickled to death that JT and the Silver Bullets were the ones that had "four weeks to prepare" in their deconstruction of Weis's unstopable offense.

I'm ecstatic, and I'm going to bask in the glory of Notre Dame's misery for at least another week or two.

In the meantime, while I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside, I think I'll reread some gems of threads you started, NDC, like the "Maybe all JT's rings and long history of success doesn't mean he's a good coach" thread.

Sorry NDC, but you made your bed in August. You're going to have to lay in it for at least a little while. :wink2:
 
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BL, I agree the 'lovefest' was hard to endure for a month (all season really), but now we have the last laugh. I guess that was my main point earlier. I think our anger is directed in the wrong place. It should focus on the media. The same media that was trying to determine where USC fit in the grand scheme of all-time great teams. I think they better worry where Texas fits among the all-time great.

I too have a problem with some ND fans that I know. For the most part, those fans aren't on BuckeyePlanet. The ones here have been (generally) as well behaved as any other. Go and read some of the NDFans board and you will see quite a few that now realize how much CW/ND Koolaid they drank this season. They know the bubble burst. They know they have much further to go than was previously thought. There are the other variety ND fans too, but those type of fans exist here as well.

I guess I just don't care that much about Weis' views on Ohio State. If he took us lightly or disrespected us, then it's his problem. If he didn't think our defense was any better than that of Tennessee, then he must reconcile that belief with the Fiesta Bowl loss. Good luck with that task.


Bucklion said:
OK, well I for one will volunteer for this one, since I've been pretty hard on this situation. I think for me it is the endless ND lovefest, not just on TV but everywhere (though especially ESPN), combined with the delusional "alumni" (mostly people who never set a foot on campus) who fail to see any reality, about their team or anyone else's. It's the idea the Weis is the greatest coach since Knute Rockne, and that navigating one of the weakest schedules in recent memory at 9-3 somehow should put him on Mt. Rushmore (who needs that Roosevelt guy anyway?). Add in the significant spin of Weis' less than complimentary things to say and his pouting on the sideline, and it's enough to get anyone worked up. I have no interest in hurling personal insults, but it is very easy to have animosity towards Weis and many of their fans.

I see many ND fans like many Duke basketball fans...they act like they are superior in every way, and the they can't understand why anyone a) could possibly disagree, and b) feels offended by condescention. For dudes like Chief, obviously none of this applies. But for many others, on this board and elswehere, it is all painfully evident. I admit it gets my goat more than it should...but it's very hard for it not to sometimes.
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3yardsandacloud said:
BL, I agree the 'lovefest' was hard to endure for a month (all season really), but now we have the last laugh. I guess that was my main point earlier. I think our anger is directed in the wrong place. It should focus on the media. The same media that was trying to determine where USC fit in the grand scheme of all-time great teams. I think they better worry where Texas fits amoung the all-time great.

I too have a problem with some ND fans that I know. For the most part, those fans aren't on BuckeyePlanet. The ones here have been (generally) as well behaved as any other. Go and read some of the NDFans board and you will see quite a few that now realize how much CW/ND Koolaid they drank this season. They know the bubble burst. They know they have much further to go than was previously thought. There are the other variety ND fans too, but those type of fans exist here as well.

I guess I just don't care that much about Weis' views on Ohio State. If he took us lightly or disrespected us, then it's his problem. If he didn't think our defense was any better than that of Tennessee, then he must reconcile that belief with the Fiesta Bowl loss. Good luck with that task.
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I agree with you 3yards...the media is to blame for the hype machine...but if truly Weis did say things like "I can out-X and O anybody" and several other quotes I have seen attributed to him, then I feel he deserves much of the derision he gets...that is my real beef with him. That, and that fact that it looked like he was more pissed that he was getting outcoached, than even that ND was losing. It's just a perception that it's all about him, from the beginning of the year...maybe I'm wrong.

Rergardless, we definitely got the last laugh, and JT's retort of the century was the nail in the coffin of the CW Kool-Aid glass.
 
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I don't really disagree with you BL. In fact, I'm not attempting to paint Weis as a good coach or person. I don't really have much of an opinion ... yet. Time WILL tell for anyone that coaches at a school like ND or OSU.

Comments attributed to Weis really don't 'stoke' my fires either. I vividly remember the rukus caused by Jim Tressel's "guarantee" of a victory at Michigan. We all know it didn't happen that way, but I still run into people that believe the story. I'm willing to wager that it will become a 'Tressel Urban Legend' in the years to follow. The story is just TOO good to write as a "guarantee" instead of "you'll be proud".

Yes we had the last laugh, and we can be proud of our coach and team. I think we can even needle our opponent where appropriate. I just don't really understand where the venom is coming from. If we continue at this pace, recruiting season (NLOID) is going to be very ugly indeed.

EDIT: Ooops, I forgot. I don't care if CW CAN out "X and O" everyone else. Games aren't played on a chalkboard* and a good 'in-game' coach is hard to find. I think CW found that out January 2nd.

*they are played on a TV ... old joke, sorry.


Bucklion said:
I agree with you 3yards...the media is to blame for the hype machine...but if truly Weis did say things like "I can out-X and O anybody" and several other quotes I have seen attributed to him, then I feel he deserves much of the derision he gets...that is my real beef with him. That, and that fact that it looked like he was more pissed that he was getting outcoached, than even that ND was losing. It's just a perception that it's all about him, from the beginning of the year...maybe I'm wrong.

Rergardless, we definitely got the last laugh, and JT's retort of the century was the nail in the coffin of the CW Kool-Aid glass.
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
How many draft choices did OSU have after 2002 and how many will ND have after next season? Not even close.....
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OSU had 5 players drafted in the 2003 Draft after the National Championship (ND BTW had 7 that year)...we actually had more in 2002 after going 7-5 (9)

Maybe you are thinking the year we had 14 draftees? That was 2004

No idea how many ND will have this coming draft, I'm sure they'll probably be pretty close to (or over) 5 next year after though when Quinn and company come out (will that be after Zbikowski's senior year?)

Source: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/drafts
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
How many draft choices did OSU have after 2002 and how many will ND have after next season? Not even close.....
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As pointed out above by ntd, Notre Dame had more drafted in 2003. The reason why we had so many drafted in 2004 was we happened to be a senior-laden team, and that Tressel was able to develop his players so well...plus the fact that many NFL teams felt that if all those players contributed to a NC and a 25-2 record over their last two years they had to be good (although there were several players that many here were surprised to see drafted).
 
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Why talk about schedules? Hey, we can't help so many of the teams we scheduled for this year were crap :wink2: Especially when teams are scheduled 7 or more years in advance, you never know whats going to happen between now and then. Tennessee had a decent defense, but they didn't do a job on our receivers like OSU did. If the deep ball was ever open for us, and it rarely was, we dropped the passes...I won't even go into linebackers. :) Regardless, Tennessee usually has a tough team, just not at present. USC was tough, we didn't win, but we hung with them as well as Texas did. It seems we definitly played better ball at the beginning of the season as oppose to the end, namely games like the Fiesta Bowl, Stanford, and a shabby display at Syracuse. Anyway, our schedule is usually one of the toughest in the country in this year, just not this year the way things ended. Next year could be more of the same, or a different story, I know we open with Georgia Tech and Penn State.
Anyway, it was a great game to watch for sure, there were so many big plays throughout the game. My heart stopped for a second on that fumble/incompete pass run back by Zibby, and the combination of Ginn and Smith was explosive. I would love to see a rematch in the next year or two, hopefully next time we'll bring a defense with us :tongue2:
 
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