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irishman173
Newbie
When all is said and done, it should be a tremendous game, though I (as well as Las Vegas) think OSU is slightly better. A lot has been made about SOS, and while ND's schedule did not pan out to be as tough as it looked in the preseason, if you discount the MSU win at ND because MSU is "a shit team" than can anyone name another big game won by any member of the Big Ten outside of their conference? The only two "possibilities" are Illinois over Rutgers or Iowa over Northern Iowa!
Both teams beat Michigan at the Small House. Both teams lost to two teams at home that eventually went undefeated (and both can make the case that they should have won given one or two plays going the other way). I think what puts OSU slightly over the edge is their away win at Minnesota, though ND should get some points for going 5-0 on the road (and vs. 3 teams ranked at the time).
I also think the whole OSU D vs. ND O is going to be a lot more competitive than people think. Here are some numbers, this year, OSU has held teams to 156 yards below their average. However, ND on offense has put up more than 110 ypg more than the opponent's average. Also, many of the ND D statistics are heavily skewed by the fact that a lot of their games were decided in the 3rd or early 4th qtr. (Pittsburgh, Washington, Purdue, BYU, Navy, Syracuse) and Weis played the second team conservatively after that.
Either way, I'm looking forward to a great game. Turnovers aside, I think if OSU plays up to their strengths of ball control and field position, they will win. I think if ND can move the ball on the OSU D as they have all year, they will win.
Would love to hear your comments....
Both teams beat Michigan at the Small House. Both teams lost to two teams at home that eventually went undefeated (and both can make the case that they should have won given one or two plays going the other way). I think what puts OSU slightly over the edge is their away win at Minnesota, though ND should get some points for going 5-0 on the road (and vs. 3 teams ranked at the time).
I also think the whole OSU D vs. ND O is going to be a lot more competitive than people think. Here are some numbers, this year, OSU has held teams to 156 yards below their average. However, ND on offense has put up more than 110 ypg more than the opponent's average. Also, many of the ND D statistics are heavily skewed by the fact that a lot of their games were decided in the 3rd or early 4th qtr. (Pittsburgh, Washington, Purdue, BYU, Navy, Syracuse) and Weis played the second team conservatively after that.
Either way, I'm looking forward to a great game. Turnovers aside, I think if OSU plays up to their strengths of ball control and field position, they will win. I think if ND can move the ball on the OSU D as they have all year, they will win.
Would love to hear your comments....
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Damn straight. Folks don't realize that Cal-Davis ended up as Great West Conference co-champs...and that's a big six-team league.
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no. im sick of the argument. i wish domers would stop using it.
i have $50 on me right now. in 1901 that would be a lot of money....but it's not now.
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NOTREDAMECHIEF
Legend
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<!-- date -->December 21. 2005 6:59AM
<!--START Headline-->OSU: Let's get besotted
But do the Buckeyes need another theme song?
<!--END Headline--><!--ArticleByline-->
ERIC HANSEN
Tribune Staff Writer
<!-- STORY BODY -->
Fiesta Bowl questions and answers formulated while trying to figure out if it's harder to get a Fiesta Bowl ticket at face value or find another hit song by the McCoys beyond Ohio State's adopted anthem "Hang on Sloopy."
Is there really an Ohio State song that contains the lyrics: "And when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze"?
Oh yes, and the song finishes out: "And we'll drink to old Ohio 'til we wobble in our shoes. Ohio, Ohio. We'll win the game or know the reason why."
What could be a reason that Ohio State doesn't win this game?
<!--START Inline Ad--><TABLE style="WIDTH: 321px; HEIGHT: 270px; TEXT-ALIGN: left" cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top"><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!--OAS_AD('Middle');//--></SCRIPT>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--END Inline Ad-->At the top of the list is Charlie Weis. In the three games the Irish first-year coach has had extra time to prepare for -- the opener against Pittsburgh, and USC and Tennessee after bye weeks -- he has put together three of his best game plans and against the three best defenses statistically ND faced during the regular season.
What could be a reason that Ohio State does win this game?
The Buckeyes are playing their best football at this stage of the season and Buckeye coach Jim Tressel isn't exactly Gerry Faust.
OK, then what are the numbers that really matter in this game?
From a coaching standpoint, Tressel has been criticized for being too conservative offensively in big games. The losses to No. 2 Texas and No. 3 Penn State this season come to mind. But in bowl games, that has not been the case. In fact, the Buckeyes have topped their season scoring averages in all four of Tressel's bowl games at OSU (28 points, 25.9 average in 2001, 31 and 29.9 in 2002, 35 and 24.8 in 2003, and 33 and 24.2 last season). The Buckeyes are averaging 32.6 points per game in 2005,
In addition to being 3-1 in bowl games as head coach at Ohio State, Tressel was 22-6 in Div. I-AA playoff games while at Youngstown State.
Weis has only previously been a head coach one season in his career -- that being in 1989 at Franklin Township (N.J.) High School. He was unbeaten in the playoffs that year (though New Jersey didn't crown a "true" state champion. The state was divided into sections). As an NFL coordinator, Weis was 10-1 in playoff games and won his last nine in a row.
How about from an X's and O's standpoint?
Notre Dame has faced only one defense in Ohio State's stratosphere -- Tennessee, but the Buckeyes' offense and special teams don't put their defense in as many tough situations as the Vols' did on a regular basis.
Ohio State's special teams are as good as ND has seen this year. A case in point, Ohio State's 35-24 victory over Michigan State, in which the Spartans held decided advantages in first downs (27-13), total yards (456-386), time of possession (40:59-19:01) --held the Buckeye offense to a single third-down conversion. And Ohio State had a 4-0 disadvantage in turnovers. But two blocked field goals on special teams -- one of which was returned for a touchdown -- and timely plays on defense (a school-record 12 sacks against a mobile quarterback in MSU's Drew Stanton) were enough to overcome all that.
In a something-has-to-give category, OSU has allowed only 11 punt returns for 63 yards all season. Only Fresno State among the nation's 117 Div. I-A teams allowed fewer returns (7). ND's Tom Zbikowski, meanwhile, has 379 yards in punt returns. And ND did fare well against three teams which actually have better return-average defense figures than Ohio State -- Michigan, Stanford and Navy.
Some additional numbers to keep an eye on: For all the talk of OSU quarterback Troy Smith's quick feet, he is sixth in the nation in passing efficiency. ... Notre Dame is +8 for the year in turnover margin, Ohio State is -7. ... For all the knocks on ND's defense, the only team Ohio State has played this season with a better third-down conversion defense than the Irish (.327) is Texas (.285).
Won't the Irish have an advantage of being more attuned to the bright lights of a big game?
The media contingent that follows Ohio State is every bit as large and discerning as Notre Dame's. It's just concentrated in a smaller geographical area.
Is it possible to live in Columbus and not be an Ohio State fan?
It isn't easy. Ohio State football is ingrained in the culture there. For example, there are roughly 185 businesses in the Columbus area that start with the word "Buckeye." Buckeye Towing, for example, Buckeye Septic Tank, Buckeye Limousines, Buckeye Door Closer, Buckeye Dermatology, Buckeye Check Cashing, Buckeye Christian Church and, my favorite, Buckeye Urology & Andrology.
Why does it seem like Notre Dame fans and Ohio State fans don't really get along all that well?
Well, it may have something to do with the fact ND fans often think of Buckeye fans as kind of the Jerry Springer Show of college football.
And what condescending analogy might OSU fans hold of Notre Dame's zealots?
Punky Brewster.
What's the part of Ohio State's football media guide that Irish fans will get the biggest kick out of?
That the school dedicates two entire pages to "academic excellence."
Why will Buckeye fans be laughing too?
Because over the past 20 seasons, OSU has had more Academic All-Americans (6) than Notre Dame (5) and its most recent is the quarterback who led them to a national title in 2002, Craig Krenzel. Notre Dame's most recent scholarship player to earn Academic All-America honors was Mark Zataveski in 1994-95.
Is there anything Ohio State and Notre Dame fans can agree upon?
Yep, Michigan is a four-letter word.
Squibs
Junior wide receiver Jeff Samardzija earned first-team All-America honors Tuesday from the Sporting News.
It's Samardzija's eighth All-American recognition, with six of them of the first-team variety to go with two second-team honors. He remains in line for consensus All-America honors, which will be announced in January.
Cornerback Shane Walton (2002) was ND's most recent consensus All-American.
Corey Mays' standout performance on special teams in the Stanford game Nov. 26 prompted Weis to name the fifth-year senior linebacker special teams captain for the Fiesta Bowl.
Staff writer Eric Hansen:
[email protected]
(574) 235-6470
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</CENTER>Don't look for Ohio State coach Jim Tressel to be conservative on offense against Notre Dame. <HR height="1">AP Photo
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#720c0c><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Related articles:[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f6f6f6><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/18/2005
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No debate: ND facing Ohio State in Fiesta </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- date -->December 21. 2005 6:59AM
<!--START Headline-->OSU: Let's get besotted
But do the Buckeyes need another theme song?
<!--END Headline--><!--ArticleByline-->
ERIC HANSEN
Tribune Staff Writer
<!-- STORY BODY -->
Fiesta Bowl questions and answers formulated while trying to figure out if it's harder to get a Fiesta Bowl ticket at face value or find another hit song by the McCoys beyond Ohio State's adopted anthem "Hang on Sloopy."
Is there really an Ohio State song that contains the lyrics: "And when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze"?
Oh yes, and the song finishes out: "And we'll drink to old Ohio 'til we wobble in our shoes. Ohio, Ohio. We'll win the game or know the reason why."
What could be a reason that Ohio State doesn't win this game?
<!--START Inline Ad--><TABLE style="WIDTH: 321px; HEIGHT: 270px; TEXT-ALIGN: left" cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top"><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!--OAS_AD('Middle');//--></SCRIPT>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--END Inline Ad-->At the top of the list is Charlie Weis. In the three games the Irish first-year coach has had extra time to prepare for -- the opener against Pittsburgh, and USC and Tennessee after bye weeks -- he has put together three of his best game plans and against the three best defenses statistically ND faced during the regular season.What could be a reason that Ohio State does win this game?
The Buckeyes are playing their best football at this stage of the season and Buckeye coach Jim Tressel isn't exactly Gerry Faust.
OK, then what are the numbers that really matter in this game?
From a coaching standpoint, Tressel has been criticized for being too conservative offensively in big games. The losses to No. 2 Texas and No. 3 Penn State this season come to mind. But in bowl games, that has not been the case. In fact, the Buckeyes have topped their season scoring averages in all four of Tressel's bowl games at OSU (28 points, 25.9 average in 2001, 31 and 29.9 in 2002, 35 and 24.8 in 2003, and 33 and 24.2 last season). The Buckeyes are averaging 32.6 points per game in 2005,
In addition to being 3-1 in bowl games as head coach at Ohio State, Tressel was 22-6 in Div. I-AA playoff games while at Youngstown State.
Weis has only previously been a head coach one season in his career -- that being in 1989 at Franklin Township (N.J.) High School. He was unbeaten in the playoffs that year (though New Jersey didn't crown a "true" state champion. The state was divided into sections). As an NFL coordinator, Weis was 10-1 in playoff games and won his last nine in a row.
How about from an X's and O's standpoint?
Notre Dame has faced only one defense in Ohio State's stratosphere -- Tennessee, but the Buckeyes' offense and special teams don't put their defense in as many tough situations as the Vols' did on a regular basis.
Ohio State's special teams are as good as ND has seen this year. A case in point, Ohio State's 35-24 victory over Michigan State, in which the Spartans held decided advantages in first downs (27-13), total yards (456-386), time of possession (40:59-19:01) --held the Buckeye offense to a single third-down conversion. And Ohio State had a 4-0 disadvantage in turnovers. But two blocked field goals on special teams -- one of which was returned for a touchdown -- and timely plays on defense (a school-record 12 sacks against a mobile quarterback in MSU's Drew Stanton) were enough to overcome all that.
In a something-has-to-give category, OSU has allowed only 11 punt returns for 63 yards all season. Only Fresno State among the nation's 117 Div. I-A teams allowed fewer returns (7). ND's Tom Zbikowski, meanwhile, has 379 yards in punt returns. And ND did fare well against three teams which actually have better return-average defense figures than Ohio State -- Michigan, Stanford and Navy.
Some additional numbers to keep an eye on: For all the talk of OSU quarterback Troy Smith's quick feet, he is sixth in the nation in passing efficiency. ... Notre Dame is +8 for the year in turnover margin, Ohio State is -7. ... For all the knocks on ND's defense, the only team Ohio State has played this season with a better third-down conversion defense than the Irish (.327) is Texas (.285).
Won't the Irish have an advantage of being more attuned to the bright lights of a big game?
The media contingent that follows Ohio State is every bit as large and discerning as Notre Dame's. It's just concentrated in a smaller geographical area.
Is it possible to live in Columbus and not be an Ohio State fan?
It isn't easy. Ohio State football is ingrained in the culture there. For example, there are roughly 185 businesses in the Columbus area that start with the word "Buckeye." Buckeye Towing, for example, Buckeye Septic Tank, Buckeye Limousines, Buckeye Door Closer, Buckeye Dermatology, Buckeye Check Cashing, Buckeye Christian Church and, my favorite, Buckeye Urology & Andrology.
Why does it seem like Notre Dame fans and Ohio State fans don't really get along all that well?
Well, it may have something to do with the fact ND fans often think of Buckeye fans as kind of the Jerry Springer Show of college football.
And what condescending analogy might OSU fans hold of Notre Dame's zealots?
Punky Brewster.
What's the part of Ohio State's football media guide that Irish fans will get the biggest kick out of?
That the school dedicates two entire pages to "academic excellence."
Why will Buckeye fans be laughing too?
Because over the past 20 seasons, OSU has had more Academic All-Americans (6) than Notre Dame (5) and its most recent is the quarterback who led them to a national title in 2002, Craig Krenzel. Notre Dame's most recent scholarship player to earn Academic All-America honors was Mark Zataveski in 1994-95.
Is there anything Ohio State and Notre Dame fans can agree upon?
Yep, Michigan is a four-letter word.
Squibs
Junior wide receiver Jeff Samardzija earned first-team All-America honors Tuesday from the Sporting News.
It's Samardzija's eighth All-American recognition, with six of them of the first-team variety to go with two second-team honors. He remains in line for consensus All-America honors, which will be announced in January.
Cornerback Shane Walton (2002) was ND's most recent consensus All-American.
Corey Mays' standout performance on special teams in the Stanford game Nov. 26 prompted Weis to name the fifth-year senior linebacker special teams captain for the Fiesta Bowl.
Staff writer Eric Hansen:
[email protected]
(574) 235-6470
<!-- END STORY BODY --><!-- Story Tools: email, print, discuss -->
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<TABLE class=factsborder cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=240 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ten><CENTER>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#720c0c><TD>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Related articles:[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f6f6f6><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/18/2005
Irish cram for Weis' finals </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/16/2005
Schlegel's stock, like his hair, has increased </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/16/2005
Irish football team beats USC -- for tight end </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/15/2005
Too few tickets for huge demand </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/13/2005
Jumping in on juniors </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/11/2005
Abiamiri now worries teams, not mother </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/11/2005
Irish won't ignore bowl blue streak </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/11/2005
Add Tucson to Fiesta Bowl attractions </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/10/2005
Well done, Irish </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/10/2005
Irish eye more than money </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/09/2005
A tarnished gold standard </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/06/2005
A playoff is the payoff </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/06/2005
A brief history, but long on hostility </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/06/2005
ND ready to divvy up Fiesta gold </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/05/2005
Been there before </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/05/2005
BCS gets it right without Oregon </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/05/2005
ND now miles from ordinary </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=15>[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]» [/FONT]</TD><TD>12/05/2005
No debate: ND facing Ohio State in Fiesta </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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0
Cornerback6
Optimism Lover
Not that stats matter, but so are ours.
If we don't turn the ball over...I think this game is tOSU's to lose. I know that's a lot of bearing on one stat column, but our offense is clicking on all cylinders and our d is insane right now. I LOVE our chances in this game.
OSU 38 ND 17
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I don't see that equating to over 100 ypg difference in total defense (275 to 377). We also had games with the bench defense seeing a lot of time (Miami, Oh; San Diego State; Iowa; Illinois; Indiana). Our defense is far better than Notre Dame's across the board:
Rushing: OSU - 74 (#1), ND - 119 (#25)
Passing: OSU - 201 (#36), ND - 258 (#97)
Total: OSU - 275 (#4), ND - 377 (#64)
Scoring: OSU - 14.8 (#7), ND - 23.6 (#45)
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Not only is our defense markedly superior, our offense compares more favorably with Notre Dame's offense than does their defense compares to ours:
Rushing: OSU - 190 (#29), ND - 155 (#49)
Passing: OSU - 215 (#68), ND - 334 (#4)
Total: OSU - 405 (#37), ND - 489 (#10)
Scoring: OSU - 32.6 (#28), ND - 38 (#6)
Rushing: OSU - 190 (#29), ND - 155 (#49)
Passing: OSU - 215 (#68), ND - 334 (#4)
Total: OSU - 405 (#37), ND - 489 (#10)
Scoring: OSU - 32.6 (#28), ND - 38 (#6)
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
Your argument loses its force when you consider the fact that Tressel NEVER runs the score up on anyone. For example, we could've beaten Northwestern (a 7-4 team, I might add) by 60 if we didn't run dives up the middle during the entire fourth quarter.
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
link
12/22/05
12/22/05
Rivalry may heat up as Irish’s fortunes look up
Thursday, December 22, 2005
Tim May
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
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Notre Dame had a lot to offer when it went knocking on Donte Whitner’s door three years ago.
"It’s a great school. They’ve got great tradition, great fans," Whitner said.
He chose Ohio State, however, and not just because he was from Cleveland Glenville. Being from an Ohio high school has never stopped a recruit from choosing Notre Dame over Ohio State — for example, Irish quarterback Brady Quinn of Dublin Coffman.
But three years ago, the Fighting Irish, despite everything else they had going for them, seemed to be spinning their wheels in football. Headed into their second season under Tyrone Willingham, the situation didn’t feel right for Whitner.
"It could have been a tough decision for me if they had been winning," said Whitney, a strong safety.
Like now, he said, if he were a prospect and current Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis came knocking. It’s not so much that Weis, who used to be the offensive coordinator for the New England Patriots, has reawakened the echoes as he is belting out a new song.
"Oh, yeah, recruiting is heating up because Notre Dame, they’re going to get some recruits; they’re going to get a lot of recruits," Whitner said.
"That’s because a lot of guys want to go play for an NFL-type coach, because everybody wants to go to the next level."
With six weeks left in the current recruiting season, the Fighting Irish already have a full complement of 25 commitments. By comparison, the Buckeyes have 10.
Notre Dame was intent on making a strong start in recruiting this year, Weis said, and a 9-2 record along with gaining a Fiesta Bowl bid opposite Ohio State helped.
"For the top players, for a lot of people, the jury was out on whether we were going to back up what we said" upon taking the job a year ago, he said. "To finish up 9-2 kind of erased some of the indecision that some people had trying to figure out whether we were going to be any good or not."
Weis and Notre Dame have yet to sweep through Ohio. Last year in the only competition between the two after Weis was hired, the Buckeyes lured defensive end Lawrence Wilson from Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary, even though he had committed to Notre Dame before Willingham was fired.
"Notre Dame has not been a big player for top Ohioans in recent years, and that might change, but it didn’t change much this year," said Bill Kurelic, Midwest recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. "The three guys they’ve gotten from Ohio, Ohio State had not even offered. That’s not to say they aren’t good players."
Similarly, not every in-state prospect Ohio State has a commitment from was on Notre Dame’s list.
"That’s not to say it won’t be a battleground between the two next year," Kurelic said. "But then, most of the top teams in the Midwest recruit in Ohio."
Ohio State also goes out of state, where it is likely to bump into Notre Dame.
Two years ago, both courted running back Darius Walker of Buford, Ga., who chose Notre Dame.
"I can promise you I know a lot of those names" on the Notre Dame roster, Ohio State coach Jim Tressel said. "They’ve got good players."
Whether having Weis fresh out of the NFL will be a major factor in future competition for players remains to be seen. Prospects choose schools for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is the future depth chart at their position.
"And another reason might be, ‘I want to go play for a coach that’s been in the NFL for a long time,’ " Tressel said. "So I think it’s one more feather in an already pretty good-looking hat when you have a guy like Charlie."
[email protected]
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