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- Thread starter wadc45
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matcar
Mostly banned
I listed several issues and all of them were bigger problems than Beck. He's the tail being wagged by so many other things. I'm not saying he's a hero or anything, but when you consider all the other factors, it's a shame to lump this on him. It's really time to move on though.
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just because he's a fun fall guy doesn't mean he was the first problem or even the second for any particular issue
If you want a qb, pick one. Meyer never did, and there were a lot of rumblings that the initial pseudo choice was his.
If you want a system, spend some time with coaches and psychiatrists and actually iron out what you want to do.
If you want a pro style spread, hire someone capable of running it. Don't promote a run first, read option coach and then bring in his former colleague with similar roots.
If you want any scheme, then run that, don't change your mind every few weeks. Especially don't try to pretend that the read option isn't really part of your offense any longer. They obviously weren't ready for that and like most things on offense, they were in an urban driven limbo.
If you want someone to call plays, then do that and stick with it. Don't let them sort of do it, either by letting them split duties with other coaching tasks, or other coaches, or because you won't trust then to run their offense and make the hodge podge even messier with your meddling.
And if you want your scheme to work, have players that block on the OL and wr positions. If they can't, then all playcallers will look lost and inefficient.
Not one of those things is Beck's fault. I questioned the hire and still do, but he is so far down the totem pole that it's absurd to lay those issues at his feet primarily, and in some cases at all.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
What Jwins said. A year after winning the NC, following two undefeated Big Ten regular seasons, no one wants to say anything that runs counter to Urban Meyer. Fact remains that if Urban didn't like what he saw out of Beck he had the power to do something about it. It took a rainy night late in the season for him to act.
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Buckeye86
I do not choose to discuss it
Insider rumblings (IIRC) were that the things the team implemented all week in practice weren't executed on game day because the coach calling plays, Beck, failed to execute the plan in real time.
I always go back to EzE's venting, which was not a small thing and probably the culmination of a year's worth of frustration. It's hard to give 100% effort when you feel like the guy calling the plays doesn't know what he is doing.
Once again, just because Warriner and Meyer (in restrospect, maybe they thought growing pains, maybe they thought he was turning the corner, maybe they thought they just needed to teach him better and while they were still winning it was a good learning experience that would pay off once he got it) should have pulled the plug on the guy who was clearly failing sooner, doesn't mean that Beck wasn't the main problem.
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I would nuance it a little bit and say it was Becks fault (that he isn't very good at his job) but Urban Meyers responsibility(in making the hire).
From the POV of just a guy on the street with no inside info it's hard to get past the change that came over the offense once Warriner went up to the booth along with the comments about play calling from Zeke and others.
I do wonder if maybe this is part of the bigger picture and Urban wants to keep the assistant coach train rolling by holding up his end of the "2 year commitment" deal? It will be interesting to see if Beck is still here in 2017.
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In the meantime, for the purposes of message board venting and ranting it's much easier to just lay into Beck every time the urge strikes.
From the POV of just a guy on the street with no inside info it's hard to get past the change that came over the offense once Warriner went up to the booth along with the comments about play calling from Zeke and others.
I do wonder if maybe this is part of the bigger picture and Urban wants to keep the assistant coach train rolling by holding up his end of the "2 year commitment" deal? It will be interesting to see if Beck is still here in 2017.
EDIT
In the meantime, for the purposes of message board venting and ranting it's much easier to just lay into Beck every time the urge strikes.
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And deployment, and switching, oh mercy, the switching.
I think they got much better at running the old scheme, which isn't what Urban ultimately wants to do, and isn't what Dwayne or Danny can do (Joey might be able to it but he's more adept than dominant as a runner).
My concern is that that the alleged fix did not address the flaws that have held them back in early 2014 and in the two years before that (which were coached by an offensive savant, which gets back to my point about the real source of the problem not being the OC let alone the second one).
Will they lean enough on the tailback when things get tight? Urban had this fatal flaw in key losses in 2013 & 2015 and I don't like thinking about that tendency with a very young and inconsistent team facing a tough schedule with uncertainty at tailback. Best case scenario is probably similar to mid 2014 with Weber emerging as the guy. It seems much more likely that they have some sort of committee (or a head guy that they don't lean fully upon), and that makes me worry about a head coach that resorts to QB runs when things aren't going well.
I'm concerned about whether the passing game will step up. Will JT develop considerably in his field vision, timing and accuracy? He wasn't the main problem last year but he certainly didn't help (nor did Cardale). Both were capable of passing well but often were inconsistent and JT was really struggling late in 2014.
Will the wideouts get good separation? If Brown is fully healthy, which is unknown, he should provide a nice boost as a blocker but chances are he will be behind Thomas as a possession guy (that seems like a near guarantee). Corey Smith can separate but is not the most consistent receiver in traffic. Chances are he is a faster, less physical replacement for Jalin, though Corey's blocking will be a welcome addition. Then there's the slot. Will it be Curtis Samuel, who is athletic but more of an athlete than a pure WR? Will it be a dynamic, green young guy like Austin Mack at times? Braxton was a devastating athlete that is pretty tough to replace. The one boost they might get here is the ability to have a better blocker in Curtis as Braxton's blocking left a lot to be desired.
Hopefully the protection will be better with two more natural tackles, though that remains to be seen. The other guard spot is concerning and even Price has been an inconsistent protector. That's troubling. Fortunately this team looks a lot better on paper when it comes to perimeter blocking. That was as big of a loss as Devin's deep speed was the great blocking from Evan, Noah and Corey.
Will Urban decide what scheme he wants to run and stick with it? Because that doomed them big time last year.
Does he have the coaches to scheme and develop a more polished passing game? Or does he still have two read option guys working for a read option head coach? (hint: I think it's the latter) There was a lot of talk about Tebow's final year and getting ready for the NFL. I didn't follow it closely but I don't recall it achieving the evolution they hoped to achieve.
I think Beck has his flaws and limitations. I think all of the above issues are glaring flaws that aren't Beck's fault and frankly that responsibility and blame lies with Urban.
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Fickell is an interesting comparison, given the wealth of the blame/disdain he received in 2014 even after he was demoted. Also like Beck, the primary problem (in 2013 for Fickell) was the avalanche of cooks (and schemes) in the kitchen, with conflicting schemes and styles undermining each other. He indeed was not the right choice to call the plays but the issues were a lot deeper than that.
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Can't disagree with any of it. Urban is a big baseball guy and last year seemed like a pitcher who tried to be too fine with his secondary stuff and went back to just blowing people away with his fastball after giving up a HR to a Punch and Judy hitter.
Urbs is smart enough to know that secondary pitches make a great fastball even better but like all pitchers he can out think himself sometimes and lose sight of the fact that sometimes you can't be afraid to rear back and throw a fastball in a fastball count.
Sounds simple but anyone who's ever been there on any level can tell you (us) that it isn't.
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