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The pain of being unrivaled

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DaddyBigBucks said:
Question to the other mods:

Should we start banning people for sheer stupidity? I never thought so before now. I’m probably even leaning toward “no” as we speak, but... wow
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not an elitist prick...well ok I am but I am not a mod....I think when they start trainwrecking a thread with what I like to call the Wolverine Mike debating style, then yeah. Time to go away for the good of the forum.
 
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buchtelgrad04 said:
Since 2000 Penn State has the same amount of wins against OSU as Purdue.
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If Joe Paterno had retired after his 70th birthday, PSU would've had a new coach for the 1997 season. Think about that. The first investigation into Sandusky happened in 1998. Think of all that could've been avoided by the program and the school if they had just parted ways with Joe at the very reasonable age of 70 years old.

From a strictly football standpoint, they would've won more games and certainly have a better record against OSU (and Michigan). With each passing year, as Joe got older and older, and elite players became less and less likely to commit because they didn't know how long Joe would last, the team got worse and worse. It got to the point where they were more interested in four win seasons than ten win seasons so long as those four wins were added to Joe's record and he could outlast Bobby Bowden for the all time wins record.

The McQueary incident in the locker room happened when the team wasn't good. If that had gone public, Joe would've been easily ousted (15 years too late). They covered it up, Joe lowered his standards and brought in some talent that won more games and criminally assaulted their fellow students. But all that is history.

Penn State underperformed for the last decade plus of the Paterno years and then through the sanctions. They have talent in their state and similar recruiting advantages to OSU. The PSU of the next 20 years is going to be a lot better than the PSU of the last 20 years since they finally got that albatross Paterno off their necks.
 
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Hetuck said:
If Joe Paterno had retired after his 70th birthday, PSU would've had a new coach for the 1997 season. Think about that. The first investigation into Sandusky happened in 1998. Think of all that could've been avoided by the program and the school if they had just parted ways with Joe at the very reasonable age of 70 years old.

From a strictly football standpoint, they would've won more games and certainly have a better record against OSU (and Michigan). With each passing year, as Joe got older and older, and elite players became less and less likely to commit because they didn't know how long Joe would last, the team got worse and worse. It got to the point where they were more interested in four win seasons than ten win seasons so long as those four wins were added to Joe's record and he could outlast Bobby Bowden for the all time wins record.

The McQueary incident in the locker room happened when the team wasn't good. If that had gone public, Joe would've been easily ousted (15 years too late). They covered it up, Joe lowered his standards and brought in some talent that won more games and criminally assaulted their fellow students. But all that is history.

Penn State underperformed for the last decade plus of the Paterno years and then through the sanctions. They have talent in their state and similar recruiting advantages to OSU. The PSU of the next 20 years is going to be a lot better than the PSU of the last 20 years since they finally got that albatross Paterno off their necks.
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You’re really all in on this “PSU is a rival” thing, aren’t you?
 
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Just for the record....I hate lots of teams that aren't rivals.

I hate Penn State because they are cultists.
I hate ND because they are holier than thou arrogant SOBs.
I hate Duh U because they are a bunch of punks
I hate Baylor because they are literally the worst.
I hate Wisconsin because Fuck Bucky.
i hate Bama because they are good.
I hate Tennessee because....well, how can't you hate them?


And I hate Michigan because they even exist.

And that's what makes a rivalry a rivalry.
 
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buchtelgrad04 said:
When did PSU become a rival, in your eyes?
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They've been a recruiting rival a lot longer than they've been a conference rival. Before they joined the conference they had a winning record against OSU, 4-2. As a major power in a neighboring state, I would've called them a little bit of a rival in that two decades plus.

But they became more of a rival when they joined the conference in 1993, obviously. If you don't understand that all members of a conference are rivals by definition then I can't help you.

Almost all rivalries are geographic. Do you remember the Big 33 game? It's not just an Ohio State-Penn State rivalry, it's an Ohio-Pennsylvania rivalry. There's a regional culture element to it too.

I'd be more interested in discussing the nature of rivalries, the great historic rivalries, how they evolve over time, how conference expansion affects them, etc., than just shouting "We only have one rival! They're not Michigan! Don't tell me they're our rival!" I'm actually looking for an adult conversation but it seems I'm alone.

That's okay. I was alone when I said OSU and Michigan had to be in the same division or it would kill the rivalry, and I was alone when I said Everett Withers was the problem in 2012-2013 when the rest of Buckeye Nation wanted to fire Fickell. I was also right when I said Thad Matta's second-to-last Buckeye team wasn't good enough to deserve an NCAA Tournament bid and this board banned me for saying so.
 
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Tanner said:
I just don't understand the linebacker/field safety problems. How can you, at Ohio state, have a group that neither makes big plays nor is just solid--fundamental--be in your gap--make a tackle.

I know a lot of people blame Billy Davis. I just don't really buy that. The guy has coached defense/linebackers at the highest level for the past 20+ years. He can't be that bad.
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Why do you think that? If he was ever good at his pro job, why didn't he last there long? Or move up in the ranks? Is he doing a good job now or isn't he? I would say he's not based on what I see on the field. Put the resume down and watch the game. (And Google "appeal to authority.")
 
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Jaxbuck said:
My idea of an adult conversation is engaging with someone who has the self awareness to understand he is exhibiting the exact behavior he is accusing everyone else of of performing.

You obviously do not posses that level of self awareness.

You think they are a rival, I do not.

Agree to disagree.Have a nice day.
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Why don't you think they're a rival? How do you reconcile that with how much you cared about that game? Why do you say I'm not being an adult when I'm supporting my position while you are not?

Btw, I'm having a great day because the Bucks won what was probably the game that will decide the B1G West division. Same as last year. While we enjoy dominance over Michigan, it just elevates the importance of the Penn State game. All the games are connected. Is that lost on you?
 
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Hetuck said:
They've been a recruiting rival a lot longer than they've been a conference rival. Before they joined the conference they had a winning record against OSU, 4-2. As a major power in a neighboring state, I would've called them a little bit of a rival in that two decades plus.

But they became more of a rival when they joined the conference in 1993, obviously. If you don't understand that all members of a conference are rivals by definition then I can't help you.

Almost all rivalries are geographic. Do you remember the Big 33 game? It's not just an Ohio State-Penn State rivalry, it's an Ohio-Pennsylvania rivalry. There's a regional culture element to it too.

I'd be more interested in discussing the nature of rivalries, the great historic rivalries, how they evolve over time, how conference expansion affects them, etc., than just shouting "We only have one rival! They're not Michigan! Don't tell me they're our rival!" I'm actually looking for an adult conversation but it seems I'm alone.

That's okay. I was alone when I said OSU and Michigan had to be in the same division or it would kill the rivalry, and I was alone when I said Everett Withers was the problem in 2012-2013 when the rest of Buckeye Nation wanted to fire Fickell. I was also right when I said Thad Matta's second-to-last Buckeye team wasn't good enough to deserve an NCAA Tournament bid and this board banned me for saying so.
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I’m over the rivalry talk, because I don’t agree. And officially, the University doesn’t agree either.

But saying you were alone in thinking the Leaders/Legends thing would kill The Game is complete nonsense. The search function works very well. I’ll just simply laugh at the Withers take. His thread is still available too.
 
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