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The Big Ten Is Irrelevant - Again

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zincfinger said:
I think that's pretty much it, although I'd state it a little differently, in terms of tradition and basic program fundamentals, rather than the strength of teams right now. To me, it's about the number of elite programs in the conference. The SEC simply has more of them than the BigTen does, and that is unlikely to change.

The elite programs, by my definition, are not necessarily the ones that are really good right now. They're the ones that have the two basic fundamentals in place that are generally required to be consistently good.

1) Name brand (this is an amalgam of winning tradition/fan support/media interest)
2) Geographic proximity to great high school football talent

I would say the SEC has about 6 programs that are elite by this measure (say, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Auburn), and maybe a couple more that could conceivably get there with some brand development. The BigTen has 3, maybe 4 (OSU, Michigan, PSU, maybe Nebraska) and maybe one or two more that could conceivably get there with some brand development.

Basically, the SEC has more programs that are realistically capable of competing for a national title on a regular basis, and that's a disparity that isn't likely to change. The perception of the disparity has certainly been increased (somewhat unreasonably, in my opinion) by the fact that 2 of the BigTen's 3 indisputably elite programs have been down for the better part of a decade. But one indication of the SEC's greater overall strength is that they can absorb a downturn in a couple of their elite programs (like UT, recently) without it turning the conference into a one trick pony.

That said, I think the BigTen can, should, and probably will be in the near future consistently among the strongest of the non-SEC conferences, according to the same analysis.
Click to expand...


PSU football is not allowed within 500 feet of a school...
 
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Nutriaitch said:
how does the conference as a whole do it? I don't know.
Click to expand...

I do. And it starts at the league office and is coordinated through all of the offices of the AD's.


Step 1: Do the absolute bare minimum to satisfy all requirements of Title IX and dump all excess money into Football and Men's Basketball

Stay 100% compliant but don't worry about building and funding an all encompassing athletic department that focuses on American Team Sports and Olympic Sports. The average Alumnus and Sidewalk fan doesn't give a shit about the Olympics and cares even less about NCAA Collegiate Olympic sports. Outside of track and field teams (which are easy and cheap to field) there is absolutely no incentive to build wrestling, hockey, shooting/rifle, LAX, Fencing, Gymnastics and Volleyball.
Invest the money in ridiculous Football and Basketball facilities and coaches.


Step 2: Since the NCAA doesn't have any influence over our Athletic Department's budget as it relates to payroll - let's hire and build the best coaching staffs in the country.

Pay your coaches in excess of 2.5 million dollars with big time incentive packages? That's a baseline expectation son
Have coordinators (O, D, Recruiting) with million dollar salaries? Yes, absolutely. Let's make it difficult and expensive for them to be hired away.
Strength Coordinator? Endurance Coordinator? Speed Coordinator? Yep - welcome to the payroll.

Step 3: Whenever possible be broadcast in Prime Time TV.

This is less attainable in basketball unless teams are playing in the Pre-Season NIT or Christmas tournaments, but out of a 12 game college football schedule, there is no excuse for not having a huge night time game every weekend. The weather is excellent in the Fall, so lets make the most of it.
 
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Nutriaitch said:
I love the SEC hate i get here.
mainly because I hate most of those bastards too.

but I'm gonna go ahead and defend them anyway.

the big difference I see between the SEC and everyone else in depth and variety.
and no I don't mean that Vandy would win the B1G, or that Oregon would lose 4 games in the SEC.

in any given season, the B1G, The Big XII, Pac12, and ACC has 1-2 teams with a legitimate shot at winning the conference and competing for a National title. and then 1-3 teams behind them that aren't gonna win anything, but can knock them off their pedestal if they ain't ready.
and typically, it's the same teams from those conferences every single year.

the SEC typically has 2-4 teams with a legit shot at winning the conference and competing for a national title. and then another 3-4 teams behind them that won't win [Mark May] can spoil their seasons quick like.
and lately, those aren't necessarily the same teams every year.
some years it's been USCe with a shot. Not long ago it was Arkansas, this year it's the Missi[Mark May]ty schools. Auburn went from top to bottom to top.
Yeah Bama is always there, and we've been consistently in the mix. But the rest of the contenders seems to shuffle a lot more than it does in other conferences.

how does the conference as a whole do it? I don't know.
but it always seems like when one team falls off the map, somebody else jumps to the top of the heap.

right now, Michigan is down. Penn St. is down, Nebraska is not what they once were.
but none of the rest of the B1G stepped in to fill that void. yeah Mich St is up there, but they've kinda always seemed on the cusp.

whereas in the SEC, Florida is liquid dog[Mark May], USCe ain't real pretty either.
but Miss St has stepped up to be a contender. Ole Piss is playing the bridesmaid role that USCe typically hogs.


right now, I think the SEC has 4-6 teams that would have a fighting chance to win if they got into the final 4.
that's no to say they deserve that many spots, just that I think that many teams would absolutely be competitive.

i don't know that any other conference goes quite that deep.
the ACC has 2-3 (FSU, Clemson, Louisville)
B1G has 2-4 (OSU, Mich St., Nebraska, Wiscy)
Big XII has 3 maybe 4 (K-State, WVU, Baylor, TCU)
Pac 12 has at most 4 (Oregon, Zona, Zona St., Utah)
SEC (State, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Ole Miss, LSU)


y
Click to expand...

Okay, so let me give my take on this whole SEC/MEDIA thing here....

1. Perception drives a lot of success. SECEspin knows this.

The media (driven by SECEspin) is hoping to continue influencing how champions are decided on the field by stacking the deck off the field. Point in case - Fowler's recent rant on CG:

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/10/25/7069739/chris-fowler-gameday-s-e-c-s-e-c-s-e-c
Click to expand...

What was driving this? What sparked the ire of Fowler? Perhaps it was Pelini and others calling out SECESpin and their multi-million dollar relationship with the SEC. While I saw Fowler's lips moving, all I heard coming out of his mouth was Charlie Brown Teacher type WAHWAHWAHWAH....WAHWAH...WAHWAHWAH.

He can try to take the high road all he wants. His company doesn't. Which is one of the reason why Nebraska is even IN the B1G right now (forgive the picture with the Cult leader):

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5432405

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...osborne-gets-i-told-you-so-moment-with-big-12
Click to expand...

2. SECESpin has consistently gone after those programs that do not fall lock step in with their way.

All I have to do to prove this point is say the following....MARK MAY.

But not just him. He's got a new partner in the game. Frosty.

Point in Case:

Click to expand...


Then, there's my boy Ed Cunningham.
Click to expand...


3. SECESpin and the media is hoping that the CFB Playoff Committee are swayed by media rankings.

All you have to do to look at this is just look at the current rankings in the media right now. How anybody can jump a two loss SEC team over a one loss B1G team that lost to a top ten team is beyond me. But just listen to the talking points around the CFB media world right now. Everybody is debating whether a two loss SEC team should get another spot in the top four, assuming that anybody not named Mississippi State is gonna be in the top four to begin with.

The committee is made up of a bunch of different people. Different ADs, former coaches, and even the former Secretary of State/Director of the NSA. It's a who's who of high IQ'd people in the room there. And SECESpin and the other media talking heads are hoping that all their pining to get at least two SEC teams into the mix will go over well with the committee. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But here's the deal with the committee.....

I can look at the committee and feel like my team's interests are going to be taken into consideration fairly. Have never had that feeling before. Why now? That guy in the upper right, for one. But the one guy (who is now missing) - Archie Manning. Yes, he's an SEC guy. Yes, he's an Ole Miss Guy. But he's also a guy who is a lover of the game of football. Straight shooter to the point of gooberism. There's enough people on this committee to keep the SECSpin out of the room, I think.

img-cfp-selection-committee2.jpg


Every one of the conferences are going to be looked at and represented (at least to start with).
 
Upvote 0
Nutriaitch said:
I love the SEC hate i get here.
mainly because I hate most of those bastards too.

but I'm gonna go ahead and defend them anyway.

the big difference I see between the SEC and everyone else in depth and variety.
and no I don't mean that Vandy would win the B1G, or that Oregon would lose 4 games in the SEC.

in any given season, the B1G, The Big XII, Pac12, and ACC has 1-2 teams with a legitimate shot at winning the conference and competing for a National title. and then 1-3 teams behind them that aren't gonna win anything, but can knock them off their pedestal if they ain't ready.
and typically, it's the same teams from those conferences every single year.

the SEC typically has 2-4 teams with a legit shot at winning the conference and competing for a national title. and then another 3-4 teams behind them that won't win [Mark May] can spoil their seasons quick like.
and lately, those aren't necessarily the same teams every year.
some years it's been USCe with a shot. Not long ago it was Arkansas, this year it's the Missi[Mark May]ty schools. Auburn went from top to bottom to top.
Yeah Bama is always there, and we've been consistently in the mix. But the rest of the contenders seems to shuffle a lot more than it does in other conferences.

how does the conference as a whole do it? I don't know.
but it always seems like when one team falls off the map, somebody else jumps to the top of the heap.

right now, Michigan is down. Penn St. is down, Nebraska is not what they once were.
but none of the rest of the B1G stepped in to fill that void. yeah Mich St is up there, but they've kinda always seemed on the cusp.

whereas in the SEC, Florida is liquid dog[Mark May], USCe ain't real pretty either.
but Miss St has stepped up to be a contender. Ole Piss is playing the bridesmaid role that USCe typically hogs.


right now, I think the SEC has 4-6 teams that would have a fighting chance to win if they got into the final 4.
that's no to say they deserve that many spots, just that I think that many teams would absolutely be competitive.

i don't know that any other conference goes quite that deep.
the ACC has 2-3 (FSU, Clemson, Louisville)
B1G has 2-4 (OSU, Mich St., Nebraska, Wiscy)
Big XII has 3 maybe 4 (K-State, WVU, Baylor, TCU)
Pac 12 has at most 4 (Oregon, Zona, Zona St., Utah)
SEC (State, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Ole Miss, LSU)


y
Click to expand...

I think you're generally on the right track. But wrt # of teams that have a legit shot at winning... I'm not quite buying that.
Since the SEC CG started in 1998, 6 teams have won it. There's actually very little variation in the number of teams that consistently compete for trophies in the SEC. Arkansas and Missouri have one-off appearances, and Ole Miss or Miss St could have a one-off this year.

Auburn, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Alabama, and Tennessee.

But compare that to B1G in same time period, 9 teams:
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State (vacated), Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa, Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois

Or the PAC in the same time period, 9 teams:
USC, Stanford, UCLA, UW, WSU, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, ASU

Or the Ripoff12 with 8:
TAMU, Neb, OU, CU, KSU, Texas, OK St, Baylor

The ACC has had 6:
FSU, GTech, Maryland, VTech, Wake Forest, Clemson


The difference, imo, isn't the idea that Arky or Missouri or Miss St have a shot of winning... it's that those 6 are all historic power houses. Even if Tenn is a dumpster fire, there's 5 other schools to pick up the slack. Even if Auburn was a dumpster fire a few years ago, there's still 4 other schools. That depth starts at the top and is a followed by a few decent middling teams like TAMU and Missouri that'll occasionally have a good year... and why those same mediocre teams have almost no chance of winning anything. Because with 6 power houses, one will always be up to the challenge. There isn't actually much depth in the middle imo. It quickly goes from the premiere programs to terrible ones... though the propaganda and questionable practices have helped prop some of those up in recent years.
Contrast that to the B1G... if scUM is crap... there's just 3 historic powerhouses left. With PSU sanctioned, there's just 2. If Nebraska is happy at perennially being a 9-win team... there's 1.5. This is how teams like Purdue and Illinois are able to win conference titles once every few decades, let alone the Iowas.
It's the same with the B12. Just a handful of power programs, and if they're down... it opens the doors for schools that will quickly revert to losing seasons.
The PAC seems to be a special case. They're all sunshine programs... whoever has the best handle on CA recruiting market wins for a few years until the winds change to the latest greatest thing. Not surprised at all that this fickle landscape is where the myth of alternative uniforms for recruiting originated.
 
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BigWoof31 said:
I do. And it starts at the league office and is coordinated through all of the offices of the AD's.


Step 1: Do the absolute bare minimum to satisfy all requirements of Title IX and dump all excess money into Football and Men's Basketball

Stay 100% compliant but don't worry about building and funding an all encompassing athletic department that focuses on American Team Sports and Olympic Sports. The average Alumnus and Sidewalk fan doesn't give a [Mark May] about the Olympics and cares even less about NCAA Collegiate Olympic sports. Outside of track and field teams (which are easy and cheap to field) there is absolutely no incentive to build wrestling, hockey, shooting/rifle, LAX, Fencing, Gymnastics and Volleyball.
Invest the money in ridiculous Football and Basketball facilities and coaches.


Step 2: Since the NCAA doesn't have any influence over our Athletic Department's budget as it relates to payroll - let's hire and build the best coaching staffs in the country.

Pay your coaches in excess of 2.5 million dollars with big time incentive packages? That's a baseline expectation son
Have coordinators (O, D, Recruiting) with million dollar salaries? Yes, absolutely. Let's make it difficult and expensive for them to be hired away.
Strength Coordinator? Endurance Coordinator? Speed Coordinator? Yep - welcome to the payroll.

Step 3: Whenever possible be broadcast in Prime Time TV.

This is less attainable in basketball unless teams are playing in the Pre-Season NIT or Christmas tournaments, but out of a 12 game college football schedule, there is no excuse for not having a huge night time game every weekend. The weather is excellent in the Fall, so lets make the most of us.
Click to expand...

Football? yes.
Basketball? outside of Kentucky, no one else even tries most years.

Baseball? that's where the SEC is dumping money lately.
look at the facilities in Baton Rouge, Fayetteville, Oxford, Starkvegas and College Station.

they're all better than most AAA facilities.
 
Upvote 0
MaxBuck said:
Let me remind everyone of the Minnesota basketball academic fraud scandal under Clem Haskins. Only 15 years ago.
Click to expand...
And may I remind everyone of how it was handled by the university after the story broke: "On the day before the 1999 NCAA Tournament, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported allegations by Jan Gangelhoff, the manager of the school's academic counseling office, that she had written more than 400 pieces of coursework (including theme papers, homework assignments and take-home tests) for 18 Golden Gophers players from 1994 to 1998, including the Gophers' run to the Final Four. The Gophers suspended four then-current players, including two starters, for the school's first-round game against Gonzaga (which the Gophers lost).[9] At the time, it was not known whether Haskins was involved, and the Pioneer Press was harshly criticized for the story's timing.[10] However, Haskins was forced to resign after the season. Minnesota also withdrew from postseason consideration for the 1999-2000 season, docked itself 11 scholarships from 2000 to 2004, and imposed other sanctions on the basketball program. Initially, the university bought out Haskins's contract for $1.5 million, but in 2002, a state judge ordered Haskins to return $815,000 of the buyout money. The decision followed an arbitrator's recommendation and the university's conclusion that Haskins lied to NCAA investigators and committed fraud by accepting the buyout.[11]"
 
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cinci has a point. That story broke "on the day before the 1999 NCAA Tournament", and resulted in immediate suspensions and heavy self-sanctions.
This particular round has been in the press since January.
But there was another round back in 2011 regarding tutors doing coursework for athletes and agents... and of course now we also know that the fake courses were going on at that time as well.

UNC doesn't appear to have done much imo.
Instead they've tried to deflect the original issue in 2011 onto the tutor and sports agents. And now trying to deflect this fiasco onto Professors in the department.
There's just so many rogue people at UNC...
Three%20Monkeys.jpg
 
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