The BCS isn't the problem, it's Pre Season Polls

[BuckeyePride]

As long as there's ESPiN, something will be wrong with everything.

BCS is an improvement from what we had. It makes people talk and pay more attention to who voted for what etc. Most years it works out and two best teams play in the NC game. for the few years it doesn't.. we need to make few changes.

OU and Texas is not a BCS problem (atleast for this week). It's a Big 12 problem. I like the current system with few minor changes. you can make few changes and have a pretty good system.

I am not a fan of mid majors. If tOSU played Boise and Utah's schedule every year... chances are we go undefeated 8 of 10 years. They just get a BCS invite to avoid a lawsuit.

Just my thoughts.

 

[TGfan06]

I did not mean the pre season polls, I think they are useless. I am talking about the coaches and voters who complain about no playoffs, then go and vote Oklahoma ahead of texas.

My point about the voters screwing up is that they let Oklahomas flashy offense speak louder than the action on the field. This is setting a bad trend which will only get worse because of the voters.

If Ohio State were to have gone out and beat the rest of thier opponents by 40 a game after the USC loss looking almost unbeatable, and USC lost to OrSU while playing average ball the rest of the season would that mean OSU was more deserving at the end of the season?

It should be USC because it was decided on the field.

 

[3074326]

I did not mean the pre season polls, I think they are useless. I am talking about the coaches and voters who complain about no playoffs, then go and vote Oklahoma ahead of texas.

My point about the voters screwing up is that they let Oklahomas flashy offense speak louder than the action on the field. This is setting a bad trend which will only get worse because of the voters.

If Ohio State were to have gone out and beat the rest of thier opponents by 40 a game after the USC loss looking almost unbeatable, and USC lost to OrSU while playing average ball the rest of the season would that mean OSU was more deserving at the end of the season?

It should be USC because it was decided on the field.

It's different than OSU and USC. We don't have an opponent like Texas Tech. Texas Tech is why this is complicated, because if Oklahoma doesn't play Tech, they're not ahead of Texas.

 

[BB73]

Huh? How did the voters and/or playoff proponents [censored] it up or throw it away?

I think he was saying that the Texas-Oklahoma game could have been considered the other 'semi-final' game if the voters would have used the head-to-head result to put Texas #2.

I'm not agreeing with that, just trying to explain his comment.

Now if the Big 12 Championship Game would be between the top 2 teams in the league, rather than the North winner vs. South winner, then this year could have truly been considered a mini-playoff.

 

[billmac91]

The problem this year is NOT the BCS it is the voters and the Big Twelve. Everyone always clamors for a plus one game to decide a champion. WE GOT ONE!!!

OU v. Texas
Alabama v. Florida

This should have been one of the more quiet years when it comes to the BCS championship, but the voters went out of their way to [censored] it up once again.

To everyone that asks for a playoff, how can we take you seriously anymore? You want a playoff to settle games on the field. They gave that to you this year and you threw it away

USC disagrees.

 

[TGfan06]

It's different than OSU and USC. We don't have an opponent like Texas Tech. Texas Tech is why this is complicated, because if Oklahoma doesn't play Tech, they're not ahead of Texas.

I would understand that, BUT Oklahoma was ranked ahead of Texas in the coaches poll before the texas tech game.

 

[WoodyWorshiper]

I agree with the second part. Get rid of the pre-season polls. They should not rank teams until at least the first week of conference play. Of course, just like a playoff, this will never happen. The TV networks like to sell the rankings in the preseason games. Number 2 Ohio State vs number 3 USC. Thats good hype.

Excellent post. I really like the idea that the Pre-Season polls be done away with. As was stated by the thread starter, I can see them as influencing someone into that "I told you so" mentality. Also, they give ammunition to someone trying to make a case for themselves later in the season, like Utah over scUM. "Well, they were ranked #10 when we beat them" or garbage like that.

Bottom line why they will stay forever was stated by Buckeyefrank, it's all about the hype. Alot more people will be interested in a game featuring #2 vs. # 3 then they will by watching "two real good teams."

Peace.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I love when people say "a playoff wouldn't solve anything". Why wouldn't it? It works in every other level of football, not mention every other team sport, but for some mystical reason it just couldn't possibly work in Division IA college football. That makes no sense to me.

"Well, if we have a playoff someone will still complain that they didn't get in." People complain in every sport about that, you'll hear it this season in the NFL. Some teams are going to miss the playoffs despite having better records than some division winners. Does that mean the playoff doesn't work? Do we just blow it up, have a vote and go home?

The point of a playoff is not to have a system where no one complains. The point is to have a defined system absent of the arbitrary, subjective rules we have in the BCS, that can (and often do) change from year to year. Consistency, not perfection, is the goal of a playoff system.

I commented earlier to JXC a reason why a playoff solves nothing:

A valid point. Perhaps I overstated the point in my thread title.

JXC - I'm not sure what I was "trying to prove" in the context that you say I've "proved" the opposite. I disagree with the notion that a playoff solves anything. As I've said in other contexts, as long as College football is worried about who is the BEST team, a playoff will not establish that. The New York Giants were NOT the best team in the NFL last season. New England was. New York is your Champion, and no one disputes it. Even I call it a "legitimate" championship.... but... I do not say the Giants were the best team in the NFL in 2007.

A Playoff establishes who is the "hottest" team at some arbitrary point in a calander year. In College basketball we accept Villanova 1985 as NCAA Champion... but.. at 19-10 going in to the tourney, they were a far cry from the "best" team in the nation.

I will concede a playoff is a tidy way of recognizing a champion... So is the BCS... even if widely hated. But, more to the point.... I don't want to see Villanova 1985 win the college football championship. Each year, there are about 4 teams max, and usually less, who can stake an honest claim to the title. What does placing .... I don't know... Utah, Penn State and Virginia Tech in the mix do for us? Suppose Virginia Tech were to win your playoff.... Champion? Sure. Best? Not. even. close.

 

[BUCKYLE]

I will concede a playoff is a tidy way of recognizing a champion... So is the BCS... even if widely hated. But, more to the point.... I don't want to see Villanova 1985 win the college football championship. Each year, there are about 4 teams max, and usually less, who can stake an honest claim to the title. What does placing .... I don't know... Utah, Penn State and Virginia Tech in the mix do for us? Suppose Virginia Tech were to win your playoff.... Champion? Sure. Best? Not. even. close.

Exactly. I'd rather have a split national champ and arguments for decades than have a four loss VaTech be able to say they were "the best" in any given year. Fuck that.

 

[methomps]

I did not mean the pre season polls, I think they are useless. I am talking about the coaches and voters who complain about no playoffs, then go and vote Oklahoma ahead of texas.

My point about the voters screwing up is that they let Oklahomas flashy offense speak louder than the action on the field. This is setting a bad trend which will only get worse because of the voters.

If Ohio State were to have gone out and beat the rest of thier opponents by 40 a game after the USC loss looking almost unbeatable, and USC lost to OrSU while playing average ball the rest of the season would that mean OSU was more deserving at the end of the season?

It should be USC because it was decided on the field.

I still don't see what you're talking about. The coaches put Oklahoma over Texas. Nor does preferring a playoff mean that you make pretend semi-finals. That is more of a pro-BCS argument ("the regular season is like a playoff"). There was a 3-way tie for the B12 South. Head-to-head doesn't answer the question.

 

[billmac91]

I commented earlier to JXC a reason why a playoff solves nothing:



I will concede a playoff is a tidy way of recognizing a champion... So is the BCS... even if widely hated. But, more to the point.... I don't want to see Villanova 1985 win the college football championship. Each year, there are about 4 teams max, and usually less, who can stake an honest claim to the title. What does placing .... I don't know... Utah, Penn State and Virginia Tech in the mix do for us? Suppose Virginia Tech were to win your playoff.... Champion? Sure. Best? Not. even. close.

I could be alone in this argument, but basketball is a different beast IMO. Teams get REALLY hot, and play way above their heads. Teams can get lucky in football, but not to the point where VT would upset USC, Oklahoma, and Texas in consecutive weeks.

I dunno...give me:

Bama vs. Penn State
Oklahoma vs. Texas Tech.
Texas vs. Utah
Florida vs. USC

and a 12 pack....

and I am in heaven. With or without tOSU. That is just an amazing amount of fun to see how that plays out.

 

[BuckeyeInTheBoro]

I could be alone in this argument, but basketball is a different beast IMO. Teams get REALLY hot, and play way above their heads. Teams can get lucky in football, but not to the point where VT would upset USC, Oklahoma, and Texas in consecutive weeks.

I dunno...give me:

Bama vs. Penn State
Oklahoma vs. Texas Tech.
Texas vs. Utah
Florida vs. USC

and a 12 pack....

and I am in heaven. With or without tOSU. That is just an amazing amount of fun to see how that plays out.

I can tell you how that would turn out... Florida and USC would be bitching that THEY should have played Utah and if THEY had gotten the draw Texas or Oklahoma got then THEY would be national champs and WahWahWah!

Just picking on our Gator and Trojan fans, but seriously there will always be someone who feels they were jobbed by the system.

 

[Buckeye513]

Bama vs. Penn State
Oklahoma vs. Texas Tech.
Texas vs. Utah
Florida vs. USC

and a 12 pack....

Does is not bother you that neither Texas Tech nor Texas won their division, let alone conference?

 

[billmac91]

Does is not bother you that neither Texas Tech nor Texas won their division, let alone conference?

not at all....tweak the playoff system all you want...I wont object to any system that involves a playoff.

Does it bother you tOSU didn't get a chance in 98 b/c of MSU, but Tennessee got to have a chance with 1 loss?

Does it bother you USC, having one of the historic defenses of all time, will not get a shot?

Does it bother you Oklahoma may get a title birth over 1 loss Texas, after losing to Texas?

Does it bother you undefeated Auburn got left out of a title game?

 

[TGfan06]

I could be alone in this argument, but basketball is a different beast IMO. Teams get REALLY hot, and play way above their heads. Teams can get lucky in football, but not to the point where VT would upset USC, Oklahoma, and Texas in consecutive weeks.

I dunno...give me:

Bama vs. Penn State
Oklahoma vs. Texas Tech.
Texas vs. Utah
Florida vs. USC

and a 12 pack....

and I am in heaven. With or without tOSU. That is just an amazing amount of fun to see how that plays out.

You have to have a confrence champion in your playoff. No confrence would ever agree to a playoff without a guarantee one of its schools would be in it. Plus I will give Utah an auto bid because Cincy and VT are so low.

so... assuming UF/OU/VT/USC wins

1. OU (Big 12) v. 8. VT (ACC)
2. UF (SEC) v. 7. Cincy (Big East)
3. USC (Pac 10) v. 6. PSU (Big Ten)
4. Utah (auto birth) V. 5. ???????

you choose between Alabama (12-1)/Texas (11-1)/Texas Tech(11-1) and they all deserve a spot in that playoff. Add a Mizzou win and this is all one big cluster[censored].

does a 8 team playoff guarantee you the true champion you all desire