Game Thread Sugar Bowl: tOSU vs Arkansas, Tue, Jan 4th, 8:30 ET ESPN

[Hogtropolis]

OSU scheduled Miami when they were a much better program than any challenger in the 00s, including USC. It is a shame they fell apart, but like you said, there's not much OSU can do about that. They scheduled the best. Texas & USC kept it rolling, Miami did not.
I think both extremes are pretty overboard. OSU has a very good defense. It is not as strong as a handful of OSU defenses but it is still quite good.
I'd like to know where anyone suggested the bolded part.

OSU had tremendous defenses in 02 & 05, with very good ones in 03, 09 and pretty solid units down the stretch in 04 & 08.

You have to understand what defines a top defense at OSU. The 02 defense shut down Dorsey, Andre Johnson, Parrish, McGahee (most of the gm). Winslow was the only productive portion of that O. They dominated Wazzu, Texas Tech, Larry Johnson and many other talented players. The 05 defense held 50 ppg Texas to three TDs and completely eliminated Vince's feet after two drives. The most amazing part of those defenses is that they got almost no help from struggling offenses (05 got it rolling after the two september losses, 02 sputtered all year).

Thanks for the response. I guess that was more of an assumption on my part based on the great national ranking that OSU's defense has right now and that amazing numbers they are putting up and then couple that with the high regard I am seeing them held at right now on this board. I haven't seen anyone come out and say that. I'm sorry if I assumed something that is not popular opinion.

My Arkansas pt predictions against various OSU defenses:

02, 05 D would yield 21-24 pts
03, 09 D would yield 24-27 pts
04, 08 D would yield 27-34 pts
06, 07 D would yield 31-37 pts

I would put the 10 D in between the 2nd & 3rd group.

This is really what I was looking for. Thanks for the response on that. I was just wondering how good everyone thought OSU's defense really is or if the great numbers were because of the overall poor quality of opponent.

There are things that I think Arkansas definitely needs to improve on. If OSU has a talented kickoff returner, then there is a good chance that OSU will have significantly better field position that Arkansas all night long. Our kickoff return team absolutely stinks.

The other thing that worries me the most is how Arkansas's defense is going to handle Pryor. If we can't stop him, it doesn't matter how many points we put up on your defense. We scored 43 at Auburn and lost because of a QB that couldn't be stopped. I know that Pryor isn't Cam, but is about the closest we have seen this year. Pryor scares the crap out of me as a Hog fan.

Again, thanks for the response. My goal of that post, whether it came across as that or not, was to gauge how good most OSU fans feel their team is compared to their teams in the recent past. I didn't know if the SOS had some fans questioning how good this team really was or if most thought that they are a legit team that ranks up there with the other recently great OSU teams.

On a side note, Arkansas fans feel that this is the best and most balanced team that we have had in quite sometime. Most believe since the 70's. So while OSU is accustomed to having great teams, it's something new for most fans of Arkansas.

 

[brutus2002]

You're welcome to your opinion, most don't share them nor do I. If the SEC is "down"it would seem everyone else is too. None of that matters for this game fortunately and I'm hopeful that our offense has found it's identity and can methodically score while keeping the piglet offense off the field.

They are down...The east division of the SEC sucked this year...they are down.

IMO if Dan persa was healthy NW wins their bowl game. I think Iowa beats Mizzou.

I think the three most intriguing games for the B10 are gonna be ARKANSAS/OSU
Michigan/MSU
Wisconsin/TCU

I understand what your saying MATCAR but IMO the B10 is the 2nd best conference and we are underated. We shall see. Lets line em up boys!!! I'm ready!!

 

[SweetSwineoMine]

I think this is the best offense we've had in my lifetime in terms of balance, but I can think of a number of our past defenses that I would trade for this one. Our defense is too sporadic to have much confidence in and our kickoff(return and coverage) teams are best suited for the Sunbelt conference.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

The lowest point total the Hogs have scored this season is 20, second lowest is 24. Both of those games were before we had any balance. I fully expect Ohio State to hold us below our average(37.3), but I don't think you'll keep us below 24.
If you average our points scored(37.3) vs Ohio State's points allowed(13.3) you end up with 25.3, I think that sounds just about right for this type of game.
If you do the same thing in reverse, Ohio State should score 31. Hopefully we can hold you to under that and come out with the win.

Only 1 team (Wisky, 4th in offensive scoring) has scored 24 points on Ohio State's defense (plus a ST score)... scUM, the 2nd best offense tOSU has faced (scoring 3 less per game than Arkansas), scored 7... If we're going by the numbers, an argument could be made that correct prediction should be somewhere in between those two... I guess we shall see...

 

[Hogtropolis]

Here's my take.

Our schedule wasn't weak. Honestly, you're falling victim to the SEC myth that when SEC teams beat each other up, it's due to parity. When Big10 teams beat each other up, it's due to an overall conference weakness. Sure we don't have flashy scores like most SEC schools do....but that's with reason...other than one specific school in the far Northwest region of our conference, we don't run the score up on each other. Because of that, the scores are lower. Couple that with (other than scUM) a tougher defensive slate across the entire conference, and again our scores don't look great.

If you really want to know why the schedule shouldn't matter, you simply have to go back to 2007. A certain school in Ann Arbor, MI was embarrased by the entire country by losing to a I-AA school. They recovered and went to a bowl game. They beat Florida that year.

(And if this isn't a proof that transitive properties suck, I dont know what is)

So our schedule doesn't make me thing anything more concerned about what I already had with facing Arkansas. Despite what the media says, I still consider Iowa, Michigan State (which we didn't play), Wisconsin, and Penn State all tough teams to play.


We are going to have to play tough. We are going to have to pressure Mallet. This won't be a cakewalk, despite what some fans on either team will say, for either team.

Even after saying all that, I'll agree that Iowa is a good team. I don't know that I'm sold on Penn St. though. I was able to watch two of their games this year and wasn't very impressed by either one. They really have no offense. Iowa was a good team that just seemed bipolar. They could be great at one point and be their own worst enemy at other times. They were an odd case this year.

 

[jwinslow]

This is really what I was looking for. Thanks for the response on that. I was just wondering how good everyone thought OSU's defense really is or if the great numbers were because of the overall poor quality of opponent.

Note, I adjusted the low total on the first two D, but overall the point is the same.

There are things that I think Arkansas definitely needs to improve on. If OSU has a talented kickoff returner, then there is a good chance that OSU will have significantly better field position that Arkansas all night long. Our kickoff return team absolutely stinks.

Jaamal Berry & Jordan Hall are both very good kick returners. Jordan has a TD return, another where he was tackled at the 3. Jaamal has not hit paydirt but come very close (once he tripped on the turf monster, I believe the punter got him 3 other times).

Also, OSU's coverage units were a disaster early this year. They have gone from a guaranteed problem to a very consistent unit with the return of a few injured players, most notably Dorian Bell who absolutely detonates the return units (he destroys the running lanes as often as he makes the play himself).

Again, thanks for the response. My goal of that post, whether it came across as that or not, was to gauge how good most OSU fans feel their team is compared to their teams in the recent past. I didn't know if the SOS had some fans questioning how good this team really was or if most thought that they are a legit team that ranks up there with the other recently great OSU teams.

Those past defenses were so good that we could be confident that our boys would severely limit even the best offenses.

Personally, I see OSU slowing down Arkansas' offense but not being good enough to stifle them.

OSU has been a very consistent defense for most of this decade, particularly as the year progresses. Other than an arrogant 06 team & an overrated 07 team (which was more due to unparalleled choking by the rest of the nation above them), OSU has played at a high level whether slaying great foes or mediocre ones.

 

[Hogtropolis]

[quote='BusNative;182896;4]Only 1 team (Wisky, 4th in offensive scoring) has scored 24 points on Ohio State's defense (plus a ST score)... scUM, the 2nd best offense tOSU has faced (scoring 3 less per game than Arkansas), scored 7... If we're going by the numbers, an argument could be made that correct prediction should be somewhere in between those two... I guess we shall see...[/quote]But you're not looking a both sides of the coin here. You have to factor in what both of y'all are saying. Arkansas, since we've added balance, is scoring just over 42 points a game. I'm not saying that we are going to score that, but to say that we will score no more than 17 (plus any defensive or special teams scores) is just as ridiculous to me. I'm really thinking that the final score will be in the mid-20's to the mid-30's for both teams.

 

[jwinslow]

But you're not looking a both sides of the coin here. You have to factor in what both of y'all are saying. Arkansas, since we've added balance, is scoring just over 42 points a game. I'm not saying that we are going to score that, but to say that we will score no more than 17 (plus any defensive or special teams scores) is just as ridiculous to me. I'm really thinking that the final score will be in the mid-20's to the mid-30's for both teams.

I don't see UTEP, Auburn, Miss, Vandy, SCar as very good comparisons to OSU's defense.

Miss St & LSU seem like a lot better comparisons, and those games were 31. Good totals, but nowhere near the 42 pt average earned against some very lousy defenses (particularly vs pass) listed above.

Mid-20s to low-30s seems like a more fair range than mid-30s.

 

[Hogtropolis]

Jaamal has not hit paydirt but come very close (once he tripped on the turf monster, I believe the punter got him 3 other times).

It's our kickoff coverage that's horrible. I actually feel that our punt coverage is above average (go figure). Our kickoff return team is also horrible. Our one player that was outstanding was injured in the 2nd game of the season and is out for season and we've tried 4 different guys to replace him and had to go with Lance Ray because he could most consistently get it up to 20 (I know, it's pretty bad). Our punt return team is actually very good though. We have a 97 yard return for a TD in that department and quite a few more quality returns by Joe Adams.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

But you're not looking a both sides of the coin here. You have to factor in what both of y'all are saying. Arkansas, since we've added balance, is scoring just over 42 points a game. I'm not saying that we are going to score that, but to say that we will score no more than 17 (plus any defensive or special teams scores) is just as ridiculous to me. I'm really thinking that the final score will be in the mid-20's to the mid-30's for both teams.

To be clear, I'm saying 24 offensive points is the high-water mark, not 17...

 

[Hogtropolis]

I don't see UTEP, Auburn, Miss, Vandy, SCar as very good comparisons to OSU's defense.

Miss St & LSU seem like a lot better comparisons, and those games were 31. Good totals, but nowhere near the 42 pt average earned against some very lousy defenses (particularly vs pass) listed above.

Mid-20s to low-30s seems like a more fair range than mid-30s.

I could go with that.

 

[Hogtropolis]

[quote='BusNative;182898;7]To be clear, I'm saying 24 offensive points is the high-water mark, not 17...[/quote]Ok. That is a little bit better. I still think the Hogs score more than that (maybe not much more), but I think they'll end up with a higher total than 24.

 

[kchogfan]

From a Hog Fan

Dear Buckeyes,

Unlike most of our SEC brethren, Ohio State has consistently been a class act in college football. I am thrilled that we finally get to play y'all. Arkansas fans are just as crazy about our Hogs as you are about the Buckeyes. Just a couple of thoughts.... when we "call the Hogs" you will see and hear one of the most distinctive traditions in all of college football! It isn't anywhere close to being obnoxious like the Oklahoma band playing "Boomer sooner" after every 3 yard gain or the truly offensive and never ending chant of Florida State Seminoles. Secondly, be sure and stop by some of the tailgating at the game. Avoid the truly fat rednecks if you don't want an argument(but they will have some of the best food!).

Regardless of the outcome, both will represent their fans and their schools with great honor. Plus, I think it will be the best game this bowl season.
Go Hogs!

 

[jwinslow]

Two reasons I disagree with the higher point totals:

1) SEC football employs a lot more man defense. OSU plays both, but employs more zone looks. Mallett will not have as many opportunities for his frequent full-field strikes.

2) OSU is a very good rushing team (especially since shifting back to a RB centric offense, a change that helped them a lot in 09 also).

Arkansas has been fairly average against the rush, and Boom & Pryor should be able to eat up clock with a steady dose of rushes, designed or otherwise.

UGA - 24 att 117 yds 4.9 ypc - 72nd ranked rushing offense
ALA - 32 att 242 yds 7.6 ypc - 36 rank (WR & QB stats excluded in 32 att)
ATM - 26 att 119 yds 4.7 ypc - 43 rank
AUB - 49 att 330 yds 6.7 ypc - 06 rank
MIS - 39 att 176 yds 4.5 ypc - 19 rank (removed wr carries)
VAN - 17 att 088 yds 5.2 ypc - 81 rank (removed non RB, #1 QB carries)
SCR - 25 att 114 yds 4.6 ypc - 60 rank (removed team loss, backup QB carry)
UTP - .......................................... irrelevant imo
MST - 67 att 260 yds 3.8 ypc - 16 rank (removed wr, P carries)
LSU - 39 att 100 yds 2.6 ypc - 33 rank

Vic Ballard had a big day for MST (150 yds 3 td 4.5 ypc), the QB was consistent if a lil behind (103 yds 1 td 3.3 ypc)

Note, Lattimore was shut down, though Garcia had some success. He was also awful through the air, so Ark could stack the box.

 

[osugrad21]

One poster with one arrogant post should not cause:

A) a blanket judgment over a fanbase
B) stooping to the same level of trash


Plenty of solid visitors so far...give the troll a second to hang himself and focus on the positive fans with the intelligent discussion.