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State to hit obese workers with 'fat fee'

martinss01;1249667; said:
no big, i kind of trailed off towards the end of the article the first time i read it too :p. the problem i have is with the statement "generally correlated with health". you are absolutely increasing my insurance rates based on something that is "generally" correlated. that doesn't seem right to me.

But they absolutely do that already. There's nothing saying a 105 year old smoker couldn't be in perfect health, but they'll sure pay more than a 25 year old, and we don't seem to mind. They key is just what level of correlation we're willing to accept, I suppose.

martinss01;1249667; said:
what happens when 50% of the obese people who are displaying symptoms drop their weight to the "normal" category and continue to display symptoms associated with obesity? we just arbitrarily raise insurance for everyone because they "might" start showing signs of obesity at any moment?

Off the top of my head, so I haven't really thought it through, but you could maybe offer an incentive plan for that situation. Drop your weight to "normal", and we'll waive any fees for those symptoms for some period of time as a reward. The insurance company gets a less risky client, the worker gets generally improved health and a cost savings.

martinss01;1249667; said:
so you think the company you work for is going to go to bat to keep your premiums down? the only part of your premiums your company cares about is the part they pay. not the part you do. just like in the example from alabama. if "you" are obese the fee will be placed 100% on "you". not split between you and your employer. they won't go to bat for you. they won't care.

No, in most cases you're right. I think it would probably have to be a lawsuit from the employees.
 
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No, in most cases you're right. I think it would probably have to be a lawsuit from the employees.

Why over due and necessary, work the bastards over at their own game. The insurance thieves need to be taken back a notch about as bad as the gas companies. Maybe worse...
 
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Guys, if your body mass index is 35, you are undoubtedly a fat ass or an athlete with incredible muscle mass. I'm all for this. Obesity greatly diminishes quality of life and inflates the cost of healthcare.

I am someone whose body mass was near 35 in my early 30s (22-24 in recent years). If you are obese and have a BMI near this, lose weight now. You'll be glad you did. And here's a prophesy if you do, a little friend you haven't seen for years will come back into your life.
 
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Steve19;1250148; said:
Guys, if your body mass index is 35, you are undoubtedly a fat ass or an athlete with incredible muscle mass. I'm all for this. Obesity greatly diminishes quality of life and inflates the cost of healthcare.

I am someone whose body mass was near 35 in my early 30s (22-24 in recent years). If you are obese and have a BMI near this, lose weight now. You'll be glad you did. And here's a prophesy if you do, a little friend you haven't seen for years will come back into your life.


I wouldn't call it incredible amounts of muscle mass that would obtain a bmi of 35. I know guys that are a lot bigger,then 5'7/230 who are ripped to shreds. That ratio alone will yield a bmi of 35,but I do agree with you about obesity. The best thing I ever did was get into shape and stop eating everything I could just to be bigger/stronger. It sucks when you are breathing heavy just going up a flight of stairs. I want to live long enough to decide if I want kids at least,and if so I would probably stop doing what I'm doing and just stay in "shape" for them.

I actually am pushing the bmi right now,but I am in pretty good shape. I don't post much about working out on here,but I have the highest total (squat,deadlift,bench) in my weight class in the united states(all federations). I wouldn't just make something like that up. I have all the necessary documents to prove it :biggrin:
 
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martinss01;1249429; said:
you can eat what you want today, sure. but then 2 years ago you could smoke wherever you wanted as well. pandora's box has been opened.

There are several issues here, and they are being mixed.

Keeping people from smoking around me is easy, a no-brainer. The fat guy does not force part of his McRib down my throat without my approval, but the smoker wants the right to make me inhale some of his cigarette without my approval.

Fuck smokers if they want to smoke in public. If they want to smoke until they cough up bloody lung chunks in private, that is their right, which I support...as long as I don't have to be exposed to one damn whiff of it.

As to insurance companies weighting my premium if I am obese or smoking, that is fine too. Why should they take a bad risk on someone who smokes if smoking increases the risk of death or illness? What is the bitch? Lose weight, quit smoking, and save money. Or exercise your right to smoke and eat fried twinkies and pay some more. I support your right to choose.
 
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Gatorubet;1252521; said:
As to insurance companies weighting my premium if I am obese or smoking, that is fine too. Why should they take a bad risk on someone who smokes if smoking increases the risk of death or illness? What is the bitch? Lose weight, quit smoking, and save money. Or exercise your right to smoke and eat fried twinkies and pay some more. I support your right to choose.

Gator, I see your point and agree, however my disagreement is with the outdated BMI index and how are you going to define obese....
If a guy is 6' 2" and weighs 400 lbs I think we can agree he is a tubby, but if the same guy weighs 235 pounds and is "ripped" will he be considered obese??? Currently yes and I am not comfortable with that.....
 
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Gatorubet;1252521; said:
The fat guy does not force part of his McRib down my throat without my approval...

Why would he need your approval? It's a fucking McRib. Approval is assumed!

Just look at it. Tell me you'd be upset if someone were nice enough to share...

mcrib-sandwich.jpg
 
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Gatorubet;1252521; said:
The fat guy does not force part of his McRib down my throat without my approval, but the smoker wants the right to make me inhale some of his cigarette without my approval.

BUCKYLE;1252606; said:
Why would he need your approval? It's a fucking McRib. Approval is assumed!

Just look at it. Tell me you'd be upset if someone were nice enough to share...

mcrib-sandwich.jpg

Ooohhh. Now with Lipitor sauce!!
 
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Gatorubet;1252521; said:
As to insurance companies weighting my premium if I am obese or smoking, that is fine too. Why should they take a bad risk on someone who smokes if smoking increases the risk of death or illness? What is the bitch? Lose weight, quit smoking, and save money. Or exercise your right to smoke and eat fried twinkies and pay some more. I support your right to choose.

my right to choose what? eat what i want or to waive my insurance? no wait, i don't have that option as my company will not allow me to waive my insurance. so your gonna have to be a little more clear on what "choice" your supporting.

oh and for the record, 6'1 220lb is borderline obese. 6'1 190lb is overweight. 6'1 140lb is 100% healthy.
 
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martinss01;1252799; said:
my right to choose what? eat what i want or to waive my insurance? no wait, i don't have that option as my company will not allow me to waive my insurance. so your gonna have to be a little more clear on what "choice" your supporting.

oh and for the record, 6'1 220lb is borderline obese. 6'1 190lb is overweight. 6'1 140lb is 100% healthy.

I should have separated the smoking from the weight issue. Smokers deserve not one break on any of the insurance issues. It is a health destroyer. But they should be allowed to smoke - in private - and if they chose to, then the rates are what they are. Smoking is guaranteed statistically to be a problem for insurers.

If the weight charts are poorly constructed, then the market will presumably correct that, as some company will emerge that has better charts that recognize that healthy 6'1'' individuals can weigh more than 140 pounds. That company will steal the business away from the ones with the unrealistic standards.

I can appreciate the frustration at insurance company behavior. They want to collect money, they abhor paying claims. They exist to make big profits, not to help the insureds.
 
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Gatorubet;1252817; said:
If the weight charts are poorly constructed, then the market will presumably correct that, as some company will emerge that has better charts that recognize that healthy 6'1'' individuals can weigh more than 140 pounds. That company will steal the business away from the ones with the unrealistic standards.

but this is the problem im seeing. while im far from being an expert on insurance, its my understanding that most people's insurance is through their employer. not something they went out on their own and purchased. so assuming that is true. if this additional $25 charge is levied against the employee only and not the company i don't see why you would think there would be any incentive for the persons who actually carry out the negotiations to care about what scale is being used. you have to remember, your company isn't looking for the best insurance at the lowest price for you. they are looking for the best deal for the company. so i don't understand where the correction will take place. outside of molgen's suggestion that a law suit could come into play.

here are some of my concerns:
1. the bmi is worthless as a proper measuring tool for health.

2. the employee shouldn't be punished alone. but why not? its the fatasses fault their a fatass. if they worked out more or ate less or both they wouldn't have this problem. well... thats mostly true. however, there are a significant number of persons who are asked to work schedules and situations that make it very difficult to eat right or exercise on a consistent schedule. if companies are making the choices, they need to share in the consequences.

3. the next logical step? the next logical step to this is for insurance companies to start telling you what you can and can't eat. you will eat what we tell you to or we will increase your insurance premiums and or lower your benefits and or drop your benefits (but we're still going to charge you). after all, just being of a certain weight doesn't mean your healthy. so we have to charge the people who have unhealthy habits more money right?

with insurance companies having such stellar track records with things such as prescription medications covered and elective surgeries that are allowable. i can only imagine the clusterfuck that would ensue if given the opportunity to dictate what a healthy diet would be. if people disliked the haliburton crap in iraq, they'll absolutely love what the insurance companies will institute if given the chance. the worst part of that concept? wtf is actually healthy? ok, everything that doesn't have 5 gabillion miligrams of sodium per serving. but honestly, half the crap that has been deemed "unhealthy" today was considered healthy 20 years ago. the dairy industry bribed its way into becoming a food group. why on earth should we trust any of these people? further, why should we allow their junk science to cost us more money for something we will likely get 0 gain from?
 
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