Rose Bowl, Wisconsin +2.5 vs TCU (ov/un 58.5) Jan 1 5:10 ET, ESPN

[HineyBuck]

I do have a question for the football coaches (or other such intelligent beings) on the board. It seemed that when Wisky would try to get to the edge with their pitch play (pull a off side guard or center and zone block with the RB picking out his seam), TCU MLB (or maybe the back side contain) would pick his way through the line and make the tackle before the RB could find a hole.

Two questions-

1) Do I remember this correctly?

2) Is this a standard or a novel approach to defending this play?

Thanks in advance for the answer.

I'm not a coach and am, in fact, somewhat simple-minded. But I do know this:

You run at speed and away from power.

Whenever Wisky went wide, speed caught up with them. When they went up the gut, they gashed the Raiders.

 

[sflbuck]

Amen. I'm seeing a lot of responses that say having a crappy conference doesn't hurt -- are these the same folks who put down the Big East and the ACC, "because you don't have to be very good to win that conference championship?"

My own bitch about TCU and Boise getting invited to the "big games" ran along the same logic, "They play one BCS team early in the season, go through a marshmallow conference schedule and then expect to play in the top bowl games. They'd get killed if they had to play a Big 10 schedule," sounds hollow if the Big 10 teams don't win or keep the score respectable, especially when two of them prove to be totally inept.

Based on yesterday -- one conference champion giving up 42 points before scoring on the second and third stringers -- another conference champion losing to a non-BCS team -- you have to wonder about the third -- sure they're 10 and 1, but who did they play: Miami, who just got their ass whomped by Notre Dame, Wisconsin, who lost to a Mid Level conference team, Michigan, who gave up a gazillion yards to a four loss conference also ran?

The Buckeyes and the Big 10 need a win in the Sugar Bowl.

Totally agree. Living in SEC/ACC country has made me much more sensitive to how your conference is perceived.

That said, as long as the NCAA allows oversigning and Southern schools admit kids that a Big Ten school will not touch, I think the best we can hope for is 3 or 4 strong Big Ten schools that will be able to play with anyone.

Having Nebraska next year will help because it will push a lower level Big 10 school to a lower bowl.

 

[Bill Lucas]

I do have a question for the football coaches (or other such intelligent beings) on the board. It seemed that when Wisky would try to get to the edge with their pitch play (pull a off side guard or center and zone block with the RB picking out his seam), TCU MLB (or maybe the back side contain) would pick his way through the line and make the tackle before the RB could find a hole.

Two questions-

1) Do I remember this correctly?

2) Is this a standard or a novel approach to defending this play?

Thanks in advance for the answer.

This is why I loved some of the past Ohio State defenses. We had linebackers that could run inside out and track down backs and cornerbacks (ala Antoine Winfield) who were fearless in run defense and would blow up play after play when the other team ran to their side.

I really miss the attacking Ohio State defenses of the past. Those guys were a blast to watch.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Amen. I'm seeing a lot of responses that say having a crappy conference doesn't hurt

If Boise State and TCU and Utah and Hawaii can receive BCS bowl invitations from their Mountain-MAC conferences, then I think that Ohio State will do okay in the Big Ten.

Question: Which conference has the most BCS bowl game appearances?

Answer: The Big Ten, with 23 ... SEC has 21 ... Big XII has 18 ... Pac 10 has 16 ... ACC has 13 ... Big East has 13 ... Notre Dame has 3 ... and the non-AQ teams have 7 (Boise State 2, TCU 2, Utah 2, Hawaii 1).

In other words, the Big Ten has received an "at large" BCS bowl bid 10 times in the 13 years that the BCS has been in existence, while the mighty SEC has received only 8 at large bids, and the Big XII just 5 at large bids, and the Pac 10 a mere 3 at large bids; the Big East and the ACC have never had an at large bid.

Pretty much disposes of the "conference perception" argument, IMO....

 

[Mike80]

I'm still shocked today by the stupidity of the Wisconsin coaching staff.
John Clay could have had 200 yards against TCU. You're bigger. Your stronger. Just pound the ball right between the tackles. On that last drive, I was thinking about Woody. They knew what was coming but they just couldn't stop it. And those idiots are so lost in their charts and plans, that they can't see the wood for the trees.

Stunning. Stupidity.

Bielema is still a douchebag.

 

[sflbuck]

Another thing that will help the Big Tens perception problem next year is, with the CSG, there will be a single league champion and that champion will have been tested in a variety of ways. No more tri-champs going to three bowls and claiming they are the best the Big Ten has to offer.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

If Boise State and TCU and Utah and Hawaii can receive BCS bowl invitations from their Mountain-MAC conferences, then I think that Ohio State will do okay in the Big Ten.

Question: Which conference has the most BCS bowl game appearances?

Answer: The Big Ten, with 23 ... SEC has 21 ... Big XII has 18 ... Pac 10 has 16 ... ACC has 13 ... Big East has 13 ... Notre Dame has 3 ... and the non-AQ teams have 7 (Boise State 2, TCU 2, Utah 2, Hawaii 1).

In other words, the Big Ten has received an "at large" BCS bowl bid 10 times in the 13 years that the BCS has been in existence, while the mighty SEC has received only 8 at large bids, and the Big XII just 5 at large bids, and the Pac 10 a mere 3 at large bids; the Big East and the ACC have never had an at large bid.

Pretty much disposes of the "conference perception" argument, IMO....

I have to disagree. After this miserable conference performance, I believe an undefeated Ohio State team (whose marquee ooc win is against a weak Miami with a new coach) absolutely gets passed over by the voters for two undefeateds from the sec, p10 and/or Texas-Oklahoma. If our ooc schedule is going to consist of 2 fredos, a directional and a marquee team that may or may not be good by the time we actually play them (Miami, Washington) we need a strong Big Ten both in reality and in perception

The Colorado game is a good start. We need to stop playing 3 mac teams every frickin year and start adding some mid-tier bcs games in addition to the marquee game. Wouldn't hurt to bring boysee or tcu in and beat them also.

 

[gregorylee]

I will never forgive Wisconsin, they force me to root for their fucking retarded asses and then lose anyway. Fuck I fucking hate fucking Wisfuckingconsin.

 

[SmoovP]

If our ooc schedule is going to consist of 2 fredos, a directional and a marquee team that may or may not be good by the time we actually play them (Miami, Washington) we need a strong Big Ten both in reality and in perception

The Colorado game is a good start. We need to stop playing 3 mac teams every frickin year and start adding some mid-tier bcs games in addition to the marquee game. Wouldn't hurt to bring boysee or tcu in and beat them also.

Agreed. There is a practical aspect to it as well.

Teams need exposure to other teams that don't play the same 'style' of football.

When all you face are teams that play the same 'style' and a bunch of OOC cupcakes, it puts you in a dangerous position when you get to the post-season and face a good team that plays a different 'style'.

I may be talking out of my ass here, but the perception that Big Ten football is mostly 'four yards and a cloud of dust' - all based on the power running game.

So it becomes essential that to win the conference title, you have to do that better than anyone else in the conference.

I know that perception is somewhat stereotypical and a simplistic one, but like most stereotypes, it is based on some truth.

On defense especially, when a team built around stopping the power running game lines up against a spread, pro-set or something else, the lack of experience facing that type of offense can really hurt you.

I think the solution is to schedule OOC teams that play a different style - even if they are cupcakes - to get exposure to different styles of play, so that when you get to the post-season, it isn't a totally foreign experience.

 

[Steve19]

If Boise State and TCU and Utah and Hawaii can receive BCS bowl invitations from their Mountain-MAC conferences, then I think that Ohio State will do okay in the Big Ten.

Question: Which conference has the most BCS bowl game appearances?

Answer: The Big Ten, with 23 ... SEC has 21 ... Big XII has 18 ... Pac 10 has 16 ... ACC has 13 ... Big East has 13 ... Notre Dame has 3 ... and the non-AQ teams have 7 (Boise State 2, TCU 2, Utah 2, Hawaii 1).

In other words, the Big Ten has received an "at large" BCS bowl bid 10 times in the 13 years that the BCS has been in existence, while the mighty SEC has received only 8 at large bids, and the Big XII just 5 at large bids, and the Pac 10 a mere 3 at large bids; the Big East and the ACC have never had an at large bid.

Pretty much disposes of the "conference perception" argument, IMO....

Possibly, but it also may be more a comment on the absence of a conference championship game. No more co-champions.

 

[kentuckbuck]

I'll be honest I rooted for wisconsin but wasn't disappointed they lost. After having went to Madison this year I only wish I could have been there last night to wave around the TCU flag. I'll be so happy if we win so that the bucks will finish ranked above them in the polls. :)

 

[BB73]

Agreed. There is a practical aspect to it as well.

Teams need exposure to other teams that don't play the same 'style' of football.

When all you face are teams that play the same 'style' and a bunch of OOC cupcakes, it puts you in a dangerous position when you get to the post-season and face a good team that plays a different 'style'.

I may be talking out of my ass here, but the perception that Big Ten football is mostly 'four yards and a cloud of dust' - all based on the power running game.

So it becomes essential that to win the conference title, you have to do that better than anyone else in the conference.

I know that perception is somewhat stereotypical and a simplistic one, but like most stereotypes, it is based on some truth.

On defense especially, when a team built around stopping the power running game lines up against a spread, pro-set or something else, the lack of experience facing that type of offense can really hurt you.

I think the solution is to schedule OOC teams that play a different style - even if they are cupcakes - to get exposure to different styles of play, so that when you get to the post-season, it isn't a totally foreign experience.

Ironicaly, the opposite of this occurred this year. tOSU has built a defense to be able to handle the spread teams, and got beat by Wiscy's power running game.

 

[Jake]

If Boise State and TCU and Utah and Hawaii can receive BCS bowl invitations from their Mountain-MAC conferences, then I think that Ohio State will do okay in the Big Ten.

Question: Which conference has the most BCS bowl game appearances?

Answer: The Big Ten, with 23 ... SEC has 21 ... Big XII has 18 ... Pac 10 has 16 ... ACC has 13 ... Big East has 13 ... Notre Dame has 3 ... and the non-AQ teams have 7 (Boise State 2, TCU 2, Utah 2, Hawaii 1).

In other words, the Big Ten has received an "at large" BCS bowl bid 10 times in the 13 years that the BCS has been in existence, while the mighty SEC has received only 8 at large bids, and the Big XII just 5 at large bids, and the Pac 10 a mere 3 at large bids; the Big East and the ACC have never had an at large bid.

Pretty much disposes of the "conference perception" argument, IMO....

It shows the "their fans travel in large hordes and will fill the hotels/stadium" perception of at-large BCS bids. Let's not forget who created the BCS, and why they created it. The TCUs of the world only got included under threat of antitrust litigation.

It would be naive to assume such things are handed out to the team(s) perceived to be the best. It may indeed work out that way at times, but it is more happenstance than motive.

 

[Gatorubet]

If Boise State and TCU and Utah and Hawaii can receive BCS bowl invitations from their Mountain-MAC conferences, then I think that Ohio State will do okay in the Big Ten.

Question: Which conference has the most BCS bowl game appearances?

Answer: The Big Ten, with 23 ... SEC has 21 ... Big XII has 18 ... Pac 10 has 16 ... ACC has 13 ... Big East has 13 ... Notre Dame has 3 ... and the non-AQ teams have 7 (Boise State 2, TCU 2, Utah 2, Hawaii 1).

In other words, the Big Ten has received an "at large" BCS bowl bid 10 times in the 13 years that the BCS has been in existence, while the mighty SEC has received only 8 at large bids, and the Big XII just 5 at large bids, and the Pac 10 a mere 3 at large bids; the Big East and the ACC have never had an at large bid.

Pretty much disposes of the "conference perception" argument, IMO....

I agree. In your opinion. Some of that is the dice of what are the records of the "second tier" teams in any given year. If you have two undefeated teams meeting in the SECCG, then one of them will get an at-large bid. If you have a three loss East team playing the undefeated West team, if the three win team prevails, the auto Sugar tie gets one BCS team in, and the other now-one loss team gets an at large bid. If the undefeated team wins, it likely goes to the BCSCG, and the losing SEC team gets in only if it is has a high BCS ranking. In a year where we beat each other up and both division winners have several losses (which has not happened the last several years, for whatever reason) only one SEC team would to the Sugar, as the other division winner now has an additional loss, dropping them further down the polls.

So I am saying that some of the poor record of SEC at-large bids may be due to the existence of a Conference CG, which can diminish the chance for an additional BCS at-large bid to an SEC team. I mean, the premise is simple. A CG adds one more opportunity for a highly ranked one or no loss team to acquire two loss or one loss status (or for a highly ranked two loss team to become a three loss team, etc.). That extra loss will likely be the loss that gets you kicked out of the running for at-large bids, as any loss will drop you in the BCS ranking at the end of the year right before bowl selection.

Your past procedure allows for multiple Big 10 Co-champions. A Co-Champion with a 9-2 record is more desirable as an at-large bid than a non-conference champion with a 9-3 record. Your new CG will make it less likely for you (B10)to get additional at large bids, as the "status" of being co-champion has been [Mark May]-canned by the Big-10. The new system has also eliminated the scheduling glitch that made it possible for the best of your conference to be co-champions even though the two teams did not play each other. Now, with a Big-10 CG, at the end of the year you will not have "co-champions", but one Champion and one team with one more loss at the end of the year - a team that suddenly finds itself sliding down the list of one loss teams to join the other two loss teams. And while this new loss will not guarantee that team will not receive an at-large bid, it will sure diminish the possibilities.


BCS at large bids go to the higher rated BCS teams at the end of the season. And while your stats support the proposition that conference affiliation has not hurt the Big-10 in the past, I do not accept that the stats support the conclusion that conference affiliation will not hurt the conference in the future, especially now that you will now, as a conference, have more teams with more losses due to a CG, and you will no longer have the co-champion label and title.

More importantly, the "pass" a Big 10 member* will get over a mid major undefeated will not always continue, given the emergence of BCS bowl victories by the Utah, Boise State and TCUs of the world.

* or any AQ conference member, really.

Edit: Sorry for the rambling nature of the post, which did not address Jeff's major point as much, but I'm hung over and don't want to start over

 

[Muck]

I may be talking out of my ass here, but the perception that Big Ten football is mostly 'four yards and a cloud of dust' - all based on the power running game.

*You are...or rather the perception is coming out of someone's ass if not yours. There are arguably more teams running the spread in the Big Ten than any other major conference.

The real problem is that fans are generally idiots and have no idea what they're talking about they talk about the Big Ten (or other conferences/teams more than 20 miles from their personal bit of dog patch).

*Edit: To clarify I meant that you're talking out your ass if you're saying the Big Ten is four yards and a cloud and dust not that you're talking out your ass if you're saying that is the often how it is portrayed.