Rivalries and Conferences (Split from LSU v. OSU Offensive Personnel Thread)

[muffler dragon]

The point here should be what comparison is made, and the nature of the comparison. While A might be compared to B as something it might approach, or replicate, no comparison is made of B to A.

Great statement. I really like that.

 

[buck1973]

Yes, but I could say that every Ohio State fan should be forced to watch an HBO special on the Michigan vs. ND rivalry. Sure, "The Game" is great enough to have books written about. For example, a 288-page book published in 2005 titled, The 100-Yard War: Inside the 100-Year-Old Michigan-Ohio State Football Rivalry.

But there are also books about the Michigan vs. ND rivalry, such as a 319-book published this year titled, Natural Enemies: Major College Football's Oldest, Fiercest Rivalry-Michigan vs. Notre Dame (2007), 319 pages

1991 -- Desmond Howard's incredible catch on 4th down in the 4th quarter vs. Notre Dame. Many are convinced that it was this play that won Howard the Heisman Trophy.


For seven straight seasons from 1988-1994, the highly-contested battles [between Michigan and ND] were decided by 28 points - that's just four points per game. Many came down to the final seconds - a last-second field goal, a heart-breaking kickoff return by Raghib "Rocket" Ismail. The rivalry had seen them all. "It was huge," said Desmond Howard, former Wolverine and 1991 Heisman Trophy Winner. "The rivalry was as big as Michigan-Ohio State rivalry. I mean, you have two major universities whose athletic programs are so highly respected, and you have a Bo Schembechler going in there against Lou Holtz - two living legends as far as coaches. That in of itself makes it a helluva rivalry." ... "When games come down to final minutes or final seconds, those are the grudge matches that fans remember and they can't wait till next year to revenge that loss."

"Everybody that loves college football will watch, want to watch [Notre Dame vs Michigan] or want to know what the score is," Michigan coach Lloyd Carr said.

I mean look at plays like this one from the 1979 game, when a ND linebacker actually jumps on the back of his own player to block Michigan's attempt at the game-winning FG in the final seconds -- YouTube - 1979 Notre Dame vs. Michigan - Bob Crable FG block

My point is not that the Michigan v. ND rivalry is as great as the Michigan vs. Ohio State rivalry, but it's still one of the best rivalries in the country.
​

Despite what Desmond Howard said, the Michigan-ND rivalry isn't close to The Game. They have only played 35 times. They played 9 times from 1887 to 1909 and didn't play again until 1942 & 1943. They then went another 35 years without playing until 1978 and have been playing regularly since. In recent years, they may have developed some sort of rivalry, but historically they aren't rivals.

 

[Steve19]

So, Ohio State's only had 41 successful seasons in its long and illustrious history. If the national championship is not as big as the Michigan game then why are you here arguing with LSU fans? Shouldn't you be talking trash to Michigan or something?

If y'all were to have to UM but still made the NC game and won. UM fans would be able to talk trash about winning but you guys could just tell them to kiss your crystal asses. I think that would be better than beating them but only to finish 6-6 or osmehintg. maybe thats just me. oh well

You really don't get it, do you?

To us, no game is bigger than The Game. Not the national championship, nothing.

 

[JohnLSU]

So "The catch" and the Heisman-pose are the only great moments in the OSU v. Mich game in recent history?

Here is what ESPN thinks are the best moments in the history of the OSU v. Mich game in their list of "The 100 Plays, Performances, and Moments that Define College Football."

#28
BLUE COLLAR
Ann Arbor, Mich. | Nov. 24, 1973
Michigan and Ohio State tied 10-10 in 1973, but a late-game play on which Wolverines quarterback Dennis Franklin broke his collarbone changed the postseason forever. Big Ten athletic directors, sick about losing four straight Rose Bowls, voted to send Archie Griffin and the healthier Buckeyes to Pasadena. Michigan coach Bo Schembechler raised such a ruckus that the league soon decided to let runners-up go to bowl games. 1973: 11 bowls. 2007: 32 bowls.

#32
STRIKE A POSE
Ann Arbor, Mich. | Nov. 23, 1991
Only four other ends had won the Heisman Trophy, but that's not what made Michigan receiver Desmond Howard's 93-yard punt return for a touchdown against Ohio State in 1991 so special. When Howard reached the end zone, he struck a Heisman pose. Innocent prank? Yes, but it also signaled a new era in the marketing of the sport's top individual award. Like politics, the Heisman became all about TV exposure.

#54
BO KNOWS
Ann Arbor, Mich. | Nov. 22, 1969
The 1969 Ohio State Buckeyes were Woody Hayes' greatest team. Says who? Hayes. That's why the 24-12 upset loss to Michigan hurt -- that and the fact that the Wolverines' first-year coach, Bo Schembechler, was a Hayes protege. Michigan took control of the game when Barry Pierson returned a punt 60 yards to set up the third Wolverine touchdown.

#58
OVER AND OUT
Ann Arbor, Mich. | Nov. 20, 1971
No. 3 Michigan (11-0) led Ohio State (6-3) by only 10-7. Late in the game, Michigan defensive back Thom Darden went over wideout Dick Wakefield, who was not only 6-foot-4 but in midair, for an acrobatic pickoff at the Michigan 32 in the final seconds. Ohio State coach Woody Hayes rushed the field screaming "Interference!" When that didn't work, Hayes shredded the sideline markers. That didn't work, either.

 

[AKAK]

Please explain...

I totally missed this from page one.



Uh.


Oh.

 

[-LSU-]

but we do have serious issues with you or anyone else coming here and telling us it isn't relevant or important.

It's always an interesting game because of the intensity of the rivalry, but is it always relevant in the grand scheme of college football? probably most years just because there usually something pretty significant on the line, but not always. Missouri and Kansas hate each other at least as much as Michigan and Ohio State, yet nobody would try to say that game is important or relevant every year.

to do so is almost akin to telling a die hard the south will rise again type to drop it and move on.

they should drop it and move on at this point.

 

[JohnLSU]

As for LSU, as many of you pointed out, we don't have one single rival, because we have so many great ones that we can't decide on which one we like the best. The only one that made ESPN's list of "The 100 Plays, Performances, and Moments that Define College Football" was the LSU vs. Ole Miss rivalry. Since we began playing each other 113 years ago in 1894, there have only been 18 years that we haven't played each other, due to factors such as WWI, WWII, the Great Depression, etc. LSU and Ole Miss have played each other every year straight since 1945.

Here's the moment that made ESPN's list:

#16
Baton Rouge, La. | Oct. 31, 1959
[In the game between #1 LSU and #3 Ole Miss,] LSU star Billy Cannon gathered in the punt of Ole Miss' Jake Gibbs at the Tigers' 11. The Rebels led their biggest rival, 3-0, threatening the defending national champion's 18-game winning streak. But Cannon shook off a couple of tackles, hugged the sideline and never stopped until he won the Heisman Trophy. Recordings of the radio play-by-play of Cannon's return will be available at LSU tailgates throughout this fall and for many to come.

I think this is a better description: In 1959, Cannon led defending national champs and #1-ranked LSU to a victory over #3 Ole Miss. The Tigers were trailing 3-0 when Cannon returned a punt 89 yards for a TD, breaking seven tackles. It was the only TD of the game, resulting in a 7-3 victory for LSU in Tiger Stadium. That year, Cannon won the Heisman Trophy.

 

[sluTiger]

As for LSU, as many of you pointed out, we don't have one single rival, because we have so many great ones that we can't decide on which one we like the best. The only one that made ESPN's list of "The 100 Plays, Performances, and Moments that Define College Football" was the LSU vs. Ole Miss rivalry. Since we began playing each other 113 years ago in 1894, there have only been 18 years that we haven't played each other, due to factors such as WWI, WWII, the Great Depression, etc. LSU and Ole Miss have played each other every year straight since 1945.

Here's the moment that made ESPN's list:

#16
Baton Rouge, La. | Oct. 31, 1959
[In the game between #1 LSU and #3 Ole Miss,] LSU star Billy Cannon gathered in the punt of Ole Miss' Jake Gibbs at the Tigers' 11. The Rebels led their biggest rival, 3-0, threatening the defending national champion's 18-game winning streak. But Cannon shook off a couple of tackles, hugged the sideline and never stopped until he won the Heisman Trophy. Recordings of the radio play-by-play of Cannon's return will be available at LSU tailgates throughout this fall and for many to come.

I think this is a better description: In 1959, Cannon led defending national champs and #1-ranked LSU to a victory over #3 Ole Miss. The Tigers were trailing 3-0 when Cannon returned a punt 89 yards for a TD, breaking seven tackles. It was the only TD of the game, resulting in a 7-3 victory for LSU in Tiger Stadium. That year, Cannon won the Heisman Trophy.

DANGER DANGER
JohnLSU be careful they do not like it when you compare anything SEC to the Big10

 

[Lockup]

It's always an interesting game because of the intensity of the rivalry, but is it always relevant in the grand scheme of college football? probably most years just because there usually something pretty significant on the line, but not always. Missouri and Kansas hate each other at least as much as Michigan and Ohio State, yet nobody would try to say that game is important or relevant every year.

I think he meant that while we all know in the grand scheme of things it is not always relevent to the rest of the football world (barring either teams ranking and NCG possiblities) we wouldn't want people coming in and saying it is not a relevant game. Only because to us it is always relevant no matter what is at stake. I don't think he was pointing a finger at anybody and saying that just making a general statement.

 

[Ginn4Heisman20]

I'm sort of backtracking here but...

Also, Michigan and ND have the only two stadiums in the Midwest that I consider to be among the absolute greatest in the nation.

Have you ever actually seen these stadiums in person? I'll admit that ND Stadium is pretty cool but the only thing remotely interesting about Michigan Stadium is the number of people they manage to cram in there. The structure itself is rather unimpressive when you actually see it. It has almost no personality and is basically a squat hole in the ground. It looks kind of cheap. In my opinion it is put to shame by stadiums like Beaver Stadium, Camp Randall, and yes Ohio Stadium.

What are some of the stadiums you consider to be great?

 

[Ttown]

I'm sort of backtracking here but...



Have you ever actually seen these stadiums in person? I'll admit that ND Stadium is pretty cool but the only thing remotely interesting about Michigan Stadium is the number of people they manage to cram in there. The structure itself is rather unimpressive when you actually see it. It has almost no personality and is basically a squat hole in the ground. It looks kind of cheap. In my opinion it is put to shame by stadiums like Beaver Stadium, Camp Randall, and yes Ohio Stadium.

What are some of the stadiums you consider to be great?

Two items I like about Michigan stadium are the tunnels and the proximity of the fans to the playing field. It is a lot more noisy on their field than on ours IMO.

 

[muffler dragon]

I'm sort of backtracking here but...



Have you ever actually seen these stadiums in person? I'll admit that ND Stadium is pretty cool but the only thing remotely interesting about Michigan Stadium is the number of people they manage to cram in there. The structure itself is rather unimpressive when you actually see it. It has almost no personality and is basically a squat hole in the ground. It looks kind of cheap. In my opinion it is put to shame by stadiums like Beaver Stadium, Camp Randall, and yes Ohio Stadium.

What are some of the stadiums you consider to be great?

Not to mention that that stadium hates the handicapped.

 

[JohnLSU]

You guys need to catch up a bit, I think.

ESPN - Game, rivalry couldn't be scripted any better - College Football

The greatest college football rivalry starts at young age

Michigan-Ohio State rivalry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ESPN.com - ENDOFCENTURY - ESPN.com's 10 greatest rivalries

Scout.com: The Game - A History

Well, I read the three shorter articles and skimmed the two longer ones. Based on those articles, I'd say that this is the most interesting thing about the OSU/MI rivalry:


It is true that the late Ohio State coach Woody Hayes, who did more to pump up the negative feelings in the rivalry than any man, refused to fill up his car in the state of Michigan. "I'll tell you why we don't," Hayes said, according to the seminal book, "Woody Hayes and the 100-Yard War." "It's because I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan. We'll coast and push this goddam car to the Ohio line before I give this state a nickel of my money!"

It is true that Hayes sometimes bunked his team in Toledo on the night before a game in Ann Arbor so the Buckeyes could sleep on Ohio ground.

Hayes could spellbind when he became emotional, and nothing got his emotions going like this rivalry. As recorded by the late Paul Hornung, the longtime Columbus columnist, in 1975 Hayes gave this kind of pregame speech before the Michigan game: "Men, this is war! I don't care anything about the national championship or the Big Ten championship. But if we win this game today and afterward, if the good Lord says, 'Woody, it's your time,' I'll say, 'Lord, I'm ready!'"

Hayes turned the rivalry with Michigan into his personal, 365-day-a-year war. Nearly two decades after his death, Hayes' obsession with all things maize and blue has become his legacy to the state. Hayes rarely recruited in Michigan. In 1969, perhaps the most famous game in the rivalry before Saturday, Ohio State had no players on its roster from Michigan. The Wolverines had 21 players from Ohio.

Hayes cared nothing about fame, money or the other trappings available to the most loved man in the state. Hayes cared only about succeeding as a football coach, and he saw his biggest obstacle to that as the University of Michigan.

[Hayes'] '68 team not only beat Michigan 50-14, but after the Buckeyes' final fourth-quarter touchdown, the players lined up and went for two, a breach of protocol in every unwritten football manual. When asked why, Hayes delivered a one-liner worthy of Bobby Bowden: "Because they wouldn't let us go for three."
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I had never heard of Woody Hayes before I came to this BP site. But I have to admit that is cool that he hated Michigan so much, and that Ohio State fans carry on his tradition.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

My favorite Michigan rivalry has always been the Michigan vs. Notre Dame rivalry, especially back in the late 80's and early 90's. The main reason I love that game so much is because you have the program with the #1 winning percentage in history playing the team with the #2 winning percentage in history.

Yeah, but #1 playing #3 in all-time winning cercentage isn't much of a game...

Also, Michigan and ND have the only two stadiums in the Midwest that I consider to be among the absolute greatest in the nation.

You have no idea how morbidly retarded that statment is...

 

[JohnLSU]

Another interesting thing in those articles was all this about Toledo:

During 1835-36, the State of Ohio and the Michigan Territory engaged in a brief and bloodless border dispute known as the Toledo War. Some have proposed that the football rivalry is a modern manifestation of this historical tension.

The brainwashing of anti-Ohio sentiments starts early on in Michigan: beginning in fourth grade and highlighted in the required Michigan History Class and its chapter on the Toledo War. Michigan may have walked away with the Upper Peninsula and the wolverine nickname, but 171 years later, harsh feelings from the bloodless war still live on, only now on the football field.

I?ll admit to being biased towards Michigan. Even with my love of Cedar Point and the fancy three pointers of LeBron James, it still does not outweigh the fact that Ohio stole Toledo.

As long as Granholm still requires every fourth grader to take their Michigan history class, the value of the rivalry will not diminish anytime soon.

Anyone care to explain this whole Toledo thing?