Rich Rodriguez (official thread of last laughs)

[billmac91]

Yes, exactly. Look at it like this: If the shorter practices were related to RR leaving, then one of two things must be true. Either RR used the extra time to his benefit to do something about the Michigan job, or he did not.

I can not think of what he could have done related to the Michigan job outside of extra phone time with Bill Martin, which, again, we'd have known about since they published the phone records.

So if he did not, that would be a lazy, half-assed thing to do - use his impending departure as an excuse to slough off for the day. (Which also assumes that he pretty much already knew he was leaving - before he flew to Toledo on the 14th.) Did a coach who in five years worked his way up from Division II to the head-coaching job at a D-IA BCS school suddenly turn that lazy? Really?

Maybe he was just pre-occupied and the players could tell???

Is it that unplausible?

If I'm considering a move that is going to forever change my life, I may consider cutting down on wind sprints at the end of practice.

 

[NastyDogg72]

Half-assing was NF's word, not Reynaud's. If you think I'm questioning Reynaud's judgment, I am. It seems like a very big leap to make. A few practices were shorter, so Coach is going to Michigan? Practices might be shorter for any one of a myriad of reasons, which may or may not be known to the players, so guessing as to the reason is pure speculation on their part. Sounds to me like linking two completely unrelated phenomena, because, as I've asked, what benefit is there for RR, especially as related to Michigan, from shortening West Virginia's practice? Are we guessing that it was for no other reason than pure spite?

Everything posted here on this situation is just speculation, we are all free to draw our own conclusions. The quotes attributed to Reynaud are from someone who was involved in the situation first hand. He is quoted as saying that they, the players, pretty much knew that RR was leaving. Now the only example of why they felt that way he gave was the shortened practices, I'm sure there were other things that happened to give the players cause to think this.

Why would RR shorten practices and what benefit would there be for him? It could have nothing to do with any benefit to him, if he knew he was leaving is it so far fetched to believe that he simply didn't care anymore? Why would I put forth any effort if I'm not going to be here in a week could be all it was about. And no, just doing it out of spite can't be eliminated from the equation. If nothing else some of his other actions in leaving have shown that there is certainly bad blood on both sides and it has been discussed in length here that both sides are out to disgrace the other.

WVU fans were disappointed in the performance against Pitt and were very vocal about it and openly questioned RR and he was understandably disgusted with some of the criticism. When the opportunity to get out of Morgantown and become the next coach at TSUN came he took it and may have just decided that I'm done giving WVU any effort. I think it shows a little lack of loyalty but I don't think it was any sinister effort to sabotage WVU's game against Oklahoma. After all if the players knew what they claim they knew they could have taken it upon themselves to practice and work out on their own. Fact is they went out and beat Oklahoma so any small character issues aside it is simply water under the bridge, at some point the past has to be left to be just that. The past.

 

[osugrad21]

Yes, exactly. Look at it like this: If the shorter practices were related to RR leaving, then one of two things must be true. Either RR used the extra time to his benefit to do something about the Michigan job, or he did not.

I can not think of what he could have done related to the Michigan job outside of extra phone time with Bill Martin, which, again, we'd have known about since they published the phone records.

So if he did not, that would be a lazy, half-assed thing to do - use his impending departure as an excuse to slough off for the day. (Which also assumes that he pretty much already knew he was leaving - before he flew to Toledo on the 14th.) Did a coach who in five years worked his way up from Division II to the head-coaching job at a D-IA BCS school suddenly turn that lazy? Really?

I can absolutely see that as a possibility...but I can also see exactly where NF took his conclusion.

 

[HailToMichigan]

Maybe he was just pre-occupied and the players could tell???

Is it that unplausible?

If I'm considering a move that is going to forever change my life, I may consider cutting down on wind sprints at the end of practice.

No, that's perfectly plausible, and I'd buy that, but Reynaud didn't mention that.

Why would RR shorten practices and what benefit would there be for him? It could have nothing to do with any benefit to him, if he knew he was leaving is it so far fetched to believe that he simply didn't care anymore? Why would I put forth any effort if I'm not going to be here in a week could be all it was about. And no, just doing it out of spite can't be eliminated from the equation.

Here's where my own assumptions take over. Rodriguez started off in 1990 at dinky little Glenville State, in Division II. A decade later he was at the helm of a Division I-A, BCS team, with two other promotions in between. He then proceeded to take that team to the apex of its historical achievements - thanks to Rodriguez's coaching, the West Virginia Mountaineers have never been more successful in their history. What's the point? To me, that's not the career of a lazy person. People who work that hard don't suddenly get that lazy. And if he had been that way in the past, then it wouldn't be all that extraordinary for the practices to be shorter and the players wouldn't really have noticed.

To add to that, RR would have had to know he was taking the job, otherwise why risk botching a bowl you might be coaching in? He couldn't have known he was going to leave until the evening of the 14th at the very earliest, after his talk in Toledo, which would leave him only Saturday's practice to shorten up, because he was out the door by Sunday's practice.

Finally - and most blazingly important - you don't schedule practice willy-nilly the day before or the day of. Nor are the practice agendas decided as they go. The entire week's practice schedule would have been posted earlier. If RR had to go take care of business related to the job at Michigan, the obvious course of action is to turn to Bill Stewart and say "finish up here for me, I have some stuff to do." I believe it would have made the news before now if Rodriguez had repeatedly turned to his assistants the week before he left for Michigan and said, "OK guys, we're cutting this short, forget the wind sprints." Somebody would have said something. So clearly (to me), the practices were scheduled to be shorter - a schedule which would have been written well before there was any meaningful contact at all between RR and Michigan.

 

[billmac91]

No, that's perfectly plausible, and I'd buy that, but Reynaud didn't mention that.


Here's where my own assumptions take over. Rodriguez started off in 1990 at dinky little Glenville State, in Division II. A decade later he was at the helm of a Division I-A, BCS team, with two other promotions in between. He then proceeded to take that team to the apex of its historical achievements - thanks to Rodriguez's coaching, the West Virginia Mountaineers have never been more successful in their history. What's the point? To me, that's not the career of a lazy person. People who work that hard don't suddenly get that lazy. And if he had been that way in the past, then it wouldn't be all that extraordinary for the practices to be shorter and the players wouldn't really have noticed.

To add to that, RR would have had to know he was taking the job, otherwise why risk botching a bowl you might be coaching in? He couldn't have known he was going to leave until the evening of the 14th at the very earliest, after his talk in Toledo, which would leave him only Saturday's practice to shorten up, because he was out the door by Sunday's practice.

Finally - and most blazingly important - you don't schedule practice willy-nilly the day before or the day of. Nor are the practice agendas decided as they go. The entire week's practice schedule would have been posted earlier. If RR had to go take care of business related to the job at Michigan, the obvious course of action is to turn to Bill Stewart and say "finish up here for me, I have some stuff to do." I believe it would have made the news before now if Rodriguez had repeatedly turned to his assistants the week before he left for Michigan and said, "OK guys, we're cutting this short, forget the wind sprints." Somebody would have said something. So clearly (to me), the practices were scheduled to be shorter - a schedule which would have been written well before there was any meaningful contact at all between RR and Michigan.

But Reynaud did say that....I'm not sure where the confusion is???

"We kind of figured he was going to leave because toward the end, things started changing around with him," Reynaud said. "We kind of figured something was up and we thought he was going to take the job at Michigan.

"Practice started becoming shorter. We weren't conditioning a lot. So we knew something was up."

Reynaud says he could tell Rodriguez was leaving b/c practices got easier/shorter. Posters point out htis may be a sleazy thing to do and you come in and defend Rodriguez on cue.

Reynaud is just one of the many who are going out of there way to paint Rodriguez in a poor light obviously....

 

[BUCKYLE]

Maybe he was just pouting because of the fan backlash over the 'neers performance vs Pitt.

We all know RR can be...emotional.

 

[methomps]

I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice.

 

[NastyDogg72]

No, that's perfectly plausible, and I'd buy that, but Reynaud didn't mention that.


Here's where my own assumptions take over. Rodriguez started off in 1990 at dinky little Glenville State, in Division II. A decade later he was at the helm of a Division I-A, BCS team, with two other promotions in between. He then proceeded to take that team to the apex of its historical achievements - thanks to Rodriguez's coaching, the West Virginia Mountaineers have never been more successful in their history. What's the point? To me, that's not the career of a lazy person. People who work that hard don't suddenly get that lazy. And if he had been that way in the past, then it wouldn't be all that extraordinary for the practices to be shorter and the players wouldn't really have noticed.

To add to that, RR would have had to know he was taking the job, otherwise why risk botching a bowl you might be coaching in? He couldn't have known he was going to leave until the evening of the 14th at the very earliest, after his talk in Toledo, which would leave him only Saturday's practice to shorten up, because he was out the door by Sunday's practice.

Finally - and most blazingly important - you don't schedule practice willy-nilly the day before or the day of. Nor are the practice agendas decided as they go. The entire week's practice schedule would have been posted earlier. If RR had to go take care of business related to the job at Michigan, the obvious course of action is to turn to Bill Stewart and say "finish up here for me, I have some stuff to do." I believe it would have made the news before now if Rodriguez had repeatedly turned to his assistants the week before he left for Michigan and said, "OK guys, we're cutting this short, forget the wind sprints." Somebody would have said something. So clearly (to me), the practices were scheduled to be shorter - a schedule which would have been written well before there was any meaningful contact at all between RR and Michigan.

Now my thoughts differ from yours on a few of your points. I have a hard time agreeing with the assumption that there had been no discussions between RR and TSUN before December 14th. At the least there had to be a phone call made to set up the meeting, and I find it highly unlikely that the phone call went as follows:

Bill Martin: Rich Rodriguez, Please
Rich Rodriguez: This is him
BM: Would you meet with me in Toledo on Friday?
RR: Yes
BM: See you then, goodbye
RR: Goodbye

In addition we would have to assume that both sides would be able to get all the necessary arrangements made for a multi-million dollar negotiation in just a few hours. RR would have had to make arrangements with his lawyer and accountant just to name a few. TSUN would have had to do the same as well as consult with trustees and others. Sorry, but I can't believe that a job search for a position such as the head coaching job at TSUN could be settled that quickly with any coach. December 14th was the interview, even a job as cashier at Wal-Mart requires some contact before an interview. I don't think it's so far fetched to believe that there was some lengthy discussions between RR and TSUN before the date you continually point to. And I know that you are intelligent enough to realize that this day was not the one negotiation period between the two, no matter how much pressure was on TSUN to find a coach or how desperate RR may have been to get out of WVU. None of us can profess to know what RR knew or when he knew it. We can only come up with our own ideas based upon the actions of those involved.

As far as practices being cut short on no notice. Any of us who have played team sports know that coaches routinely will cut practice short for many reasons. I have had practices cut short for every reason from a reward for a great practice to the coach being so unhappy with us that he didn't want to be around us anymore.

Personally I think too much may be taken from a few practices being cut short, but when you combine it with all the other circumstances surrounding RR's departure it shouldn't surprise anyone that these questions are being raised. HTM I understand you have to take the minority stance here, after all he is the new coach of your beloved team and without you there would be no back and forth discussion. Only a bunch of Buckeye fans pointing out the shortcomings of RR. I have in both this post and in an earlier one conceded that this practice issue to me is much ado about nothing, I hope that you can concede that TSUN and RR didn't have one conversation on December 14th that gave them all they needed to know about one another.

 

[HailToMichigan]

Now my thoughts differ from yours on a few of your points. I have a hard time agreeing with the assumption that there had been no discussions between RR and TSUN before December 14th. At the least there had to be a phone call made to set up the meeting, and I find it highly unlikely that the phone call went as follows:

Bill Martin: Rich Rodriguez, Please
Rich Rodriguez: This is him
BM: Would you meet with me in Toledo on Friday?
RR: Yes
BM: See you then, goodbye
RR: Goodbye

In addition we would have to assume that both sides would be able to get all the necessary arrangements made for a multi-million dollar negotiation in just a few hours. RR would have had to make arrangements with his lawyer and accountant just to name a few. TSUN would have had to do the same as well as consult with trustees and others. Sorry, but I can't believe that a job search for a position such as the head coaching job at TSUN could be settled that quickly with any coach. December 14th was the interview, even a job as cashier at Wal-Mart requires some contact before an interview. I don't think it's so far fetched to believe that there was some lengthy discussions between RR and TSUN before the date you continually point to. And I know that you are intelligent enough to realize that this day was not the one negotiation period between the two, no matter how much pressure was on TSUN to find a coach or how desperate RR may have been to get out of WVU. None of us can profess to know what RR knew or when he knew it. We can only come up with our own ideas based upon the actions of those involved.

As far as practices being cut short on no notice. Any of us who have played team sports know that coaches routinely will cut practice short for many reasons. I have had practices cut short for every reason from a reward for a great practice to the coach being so unhappy with us that he didn't want to be around us anymore.

Personally I think too much may be taken from a few practices being cut short, but when you combine it with all the other circumstances surrounding RR's departure it shouldn't surprise anyone that these questions are being raised. HTM I understand you have to take the minority stance here, after all he is the new coach of your beloved team and without you there would be no back and forth discussion. Only a bunch of Buckeye fans pointing out the shortcomings of RR. I have in both this post and in an earlier one conceded that this practice issue to me is much ado about nothing, I hope that you can concede that TSUN and RR didn't have one conversation on December 14th that gave them all they needed to know about one another.

I definitely don't mean to imply I think the first time U-M and RR ever talked was the 14th - as you said, there had to have been at the very least an invitation over the phone. But I don't think there was much. It took quite a long time after the introductory press conference for the two to sign an actual contract. Over a month. ChisAto surmised that the earliest date for contact between U-M and RR would have been the 11th (a Tuesday) based on that being the day that Les Miles gave his final "no, and please stop asking." Given that Bill Martin offered Greg Schiano the job after a few-hours-long conversation at a banquet, I think it's plausible the same scenario happened in Toledo.

As for the practices, I do realize practices get cut short, but this is the Internet age where we track planes going in and out of Iowa City if we think a certain coach there might be talking to a certain someone about a certain job opening. Cutting practice short once might not raise any eyebrows - doing it all week would have. Friggin' Marty Mornhinweg cut practice short once, left on his motorcycle, and it was up on SportsCenter. Bowl practices get more scrutiny than regular ones. I absolutely believe if there was a pattern of cutting them short in the days preceding his departure, it would have been an issue before now. It hasn't been. That tells me the practices were scheduled to be shorter.

But Reynaud did say that....I'm not sure where the confusion is???

Reynaud says he could tell Rodriguez was leaving b/c practices got easier/shorter. Posters point out htis may be a sleazy thing to do and you come in and defend Rodriguez on cue.

Reynaud said nothing about RR being preoccupied, which is what was talking about. Reynaud made the jump from "practices got shorter" to "that means Coach is leaving." I don't buy it. If he'd said, "Coach acted like he didn't care," that'd have some weight. He just said the team did less conditioning work, and somehow that's supposed to mean the coach was leaving.

 

[MaxBuck]

I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice.

That's the correct Answer.

 

[leroyjenkins]

I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI]YouTube - Iverson Practice![/ame]

 

[NFBuck]

I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice.

Well played sir.

 

[3074326]

If Reynaud thought that Rodriguez was shortening the practices because the players were tired, and if he thought Rodriguez was shortening practices because he wanted the players to be fresh for the bowl game, then he would not have said what he said.

""We kind of figured he was going to leave because toward the end, things started changing around with him," Reynaud said. "We kind of figured something was up and we thought he was going to take the job at Michigan.

"Practice started becoming shorter. We weren't conditioning a lot. So we knew something was up."

So, either the players (THEY, not just Reynaud) were wrong, or they all had the wrong idea. But Rodriguez left soon after they thought something was up. Could it be coincidence? Yeah, I guess, but the fact that Reynaud claims multiple people suspected something leads me to believe that it wasn't just a coincidence.

You can have your own opinions, but don't act like OSU fans are being unreasonable about it.

 

[Jaxbuck]

He then proceeded to take that team to the apex of its historical achievements - thanks to Rodriguez's coaching, the West Virginia Mountaineers have never been more successful in their history.

I keep seeing this statement made by tsun fans and taken as true.

WVU played for a NC in 1988 under Don Nehlan(sp?). They never did under Dick Rod.

They may have the best 3 year win % or something like that under RR but the apex of school historical achievement was playing ND for the NC in 1988. The apex of historical achievement under Dick Rod was the greatest choke job in school, and possibly CFB, history.

 

[xcrunner]

I keep seeing this statement made by tsun fans and taken as true.

WVU played for a NC in 1988 under Don Nehlan(sp?). They never did under Dick Rod.

They may have the best 3 year win % or something like that under RR but the apex of school historical achievement was playing ND for the NC in 1988. The apex of historical achievement under Dick Rod was the greatest choke job in school, and possibly CFB, history.

To be fair, to call the loss to Pitt possibly the greatest choke job in CFB history is a bit much.

...

But it was still pretty bad