Reds Tidbits (2009 season)

[jlb1705]

Yep. Gold Cup - US v. Honduras on Fox Soccer Channel. For the first 70 minutes their offense was looking a lot like the Reds'. Fortunately they got that situation corrected.

 

[scott91575]

She pretty much summed it all up.

Man this [censored] gets old.

Well, I think we all know this team is not going to win the WS. With that I am not too hung up on wins and losses anymore. Wins are nice to watch, while with every loss they get closer to being a seller (which as we have discussed is needed).

This is such a great year for the Reds to be a seller. The players they have are pitchers and a catcher. Very high demand positions for teams looking to make playoff runs. I think the Reds can get a bundle in return for 2 old bullpen arms who are having good years (yet little to no future use), a former #1 starter on the way down, and a catcher who is a luxury considering the future #1 catcher is busy picking splinters out of his ass on the bench.

Of course this is the Reds...yet I do have a little more hope in Jockety's ability to get young talent than anyone in the past.

 

[schwab]

Had to rep scott, he ain't kidding.

Trade Harang, Weathers, Rhodes, Arroyo (try to sneak him in there anyway), Hernandez....

That 4 brings 6-8 players, worst case scenario... worst case

come on Reds, we aren't winning shit this year, period..

One more wave of players, let's talk...

 

[Jaxbuck]

Well, I think we all know this team is not going to win the WS. With that I am not too hung up on wins and losses anymore. Wins are nice to watch, while with every loss they get closer to being a seller (which as we have discussed is needed).

This is such a great year for the Reds to be a seller. The players they have are pitchers and a catcher. Very high demand positions for teams looking to make playoff runs. I think the Reds can get a bundle in return for 2 old bullpen arms who are having good years (yet little to no future use), a former #1 starter on the way down, and a catcher who is a luxury considering the future #1 catcher is busy picking splinters out of his ass on the bench.

Of course this is the Reds...yet I do have a little more hope in Jockety's ability to get young talent than anyone in the past.

The cost of suck:
Arroyo
09:$9.5M, 10:$11M, 11:$11M club option ($2M buyout)

Alex Gonzalez
09:$5.375M, 10:$6M mutual option ($0.5M buyout)

Lincoln
09:$1.5M, 10:$2.5M

Weathers
09:$3.5M, 10:$3.7M club option ($0.4M buyout)

Tavaras
09:$2.25M, 10:$4M

900K gets rid of Weathers and A Gonzales next year. If Walt gets rid of any of the others its a miracle.

Guys with value and decent contracts:
Rhodes
09:$2M, 10:$2M

EE
09:$2M, 10:$4.75M

Hernandez
09: 8M (Birds paid 2M) 10:$8.5M club option ($1M buyout)

Good players who are getting older and/or expensive:
Cordero
09:$12M, 10:$12M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout)

Harang
09:$11M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout)

 

[scott91575]

The cost of suck:
Arroyo
09:$9.5M, 10:$11M, 11:$11M club option ($2M buyout)

Alex Gonzalez
09:$5.375M, 10:$6M mutual option ($0.5M buyout)

Lincoln
09:$1.5M, 10:$2.5M

Weathers
09:$3.5M, 10:$3.7M club option ($0.4M buyout)

Tavaras
09:$2.25M, 10:$4M

900K gets rid of Weathers and A Gonzales next year. If Walt gets rid of any of the others its a miracle.

Guys with value and decent contracts:
Rhodes
09:$2M, 10:$2M

EE
09:$2M, 10:$4.75M

Hernandez
09: 8M (Birds paid 2M) 10:$8.5M club option ($1M buyout)

Good players who are getting older and/or expensive:
Cordero
09:$12M, 10:$12M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout)

Harang
09:$11M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout)

I think Weathers has value. Compared to some of the other garbage other teams trot out there in the 7th and 8th he is pretty good. Don't get me wrong, he's not great. Yet some of the bullpens out there are awful and would gladly take Weathers.

I am also up in the air over dealing Cordero. I think he has 3 good years left (of course you never know). If someone backed up a truckload full of prospects for him I'm all for it. After seeing Philly I think the Reds could have their entire farm system for Harang and Cordero.

 

[Dryden]

I think Weathers has value. Compared to some of the other garbage other teams trot out there in the 7th and 8th he is pretty good. Don't get me wrong, he's not great. Yet some of the bullpens out there are awful and would gladly take Weathers.

I am also up in the air over dealing Cordero. I think he has 3 good years left (of course you never know). If someone backed up a truckload full of prospects for him I'm all for it. After seeing Philly I think the Reds could have their entire farm system for Harang and Cordero.

Reliable setup men/closers are a precious commodity. Guys have to have both the head and the 'stuff' for it, and that doesn't come around very often. Rhodes, Weathers, and Cordero are as good as any. I was more optimisitic about the Reds options before the season started, but since Lincoln and Burton have since followed the trail blazed by the Danny Graves and Todd Coffeys of this decade, I'm not so certain what the Reds stand to gain by selling off the 'pen.

It's the Catch-22 of being perfectly mediocre at everything this season. Do you auction off the pitching to buy some bats? Because I know deep down inside if the Reds do it and somehow unfathomably assemble some sort of Murderers' Row offense, the 'pen will suck for the next five years to pay for it, and they still won't be a 90-win club.

I am very happy to see that Homer actually makes discussions of moving both Harang and Arroyo possible, though. If Homer has had his breakthrough, Cueto, Volquez, Bailey makes a sick 1-2-3.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Reliable setup men/closers are a precious commodity. Guys have to have both the head and the 'stuff' for it, and that doesn't come around very often. Rhodes, Weathers, and Cordero are as good as any. I was more optimisitic about the Reds options before the season started, but since Lincoln and Burton have since followed the trail blazed by the Danny Graves and Todd Coffeys of this decade, I'm not so certain what the Reds stand to gain by selling off the 'pen.

I agree with what you are saying but then the next question becomes how much longer can you count on Weathers, Rhodes and Cordero?

It's the Catch-22 of being perfectly mediocre at everything this season. Do you auction off the pitching to buy some bats? Because I know deep down inside if the Reds do it and somehow unfathomably assemble some sort of Murderers' Row offense, the 'pen will suck for the next five years to pay for it, and they still won't be a 90-win club.

It always comes back to how much talent the farm is producing to replace these guys with. There is just no way to construct a winning MLB team if you can't replace old expensive guys with young cheap guys and get similar production. Thats why another load of prospects to inject into the system is so critical in my mind.

I am very happy to see that Homer actually makes discussions of moving both Harang and Arroyo possible, though. If Homer has had his breakthrough, Cueto, Volquez, Bailey makes a sick 1-2-3.

Harang is far and away our best chip but it will hurt the W/L record in the short term. I don't think Bob C and company will do it in a million years. Remember who his mentor (and still minority owner of this team) is...Uncle Carl. In Uncle Carls world you build teams just good enough to give the sucke...err fans hope so they will continue to come out to the ballpark and provide revenue.

They think fans aren't smart enough to realize a youth movement gives them a couple of rough years but a chance at sustainible long term success. They think fans wouldn't come out and watch a losing team even if it were comprised of a bunch of young talent that leaves them dreaming of what could be. As spoiled as Reds fans have become with all of the winning this franchise has done over the past 15 years I can see how this line of thinking seems completely logical to all the really smart guys who run this team.

I see no way in hell you can move Arroyo unless its a package with Harang and then you can forget legit prospects in return.

I'm still willing to bet money that they pretty much stand pat at the trade deadline or add that Matt Stairs type of professional hitting vet who knows how to win and try to sell it as a bold move to put us in contention.

 

[scott91575]

I agree with what you are saying but then the next question becomes how much longer can you count on Weathers, Rhodes and Cordero?

Exactly. They are not spring chickens. Rhodes and Weathers will soon be 40. This team is not winning anything this year. Why hang on to two 40 year old bullpen arms? This could be the last year they have any value.

They are great if this was a winning team. Yet it's not, and both of them will soon fall off a cliff. They are not the future of this team.

I already made my feelings known on Cordero. It would take a lot more to get him, but everyone has a price.

 

[Dryden]

The Thursday special.

Taveras 8
Dickerson 9
Votto 3
Phillips 4
Hernandez 2
Gomes 7
Encarnacion 5
Janish 6
Owings 1

 

[DGADBTWSOM]

Game over man.

I'm done. '09 hold no interest for me any longer.

 

[jlb1705]

Game over man.

I'm done. '09 hold not interest for me any longer.

You held out longer than me.

I updated my facebook by saying that I couldn't bring myself to watch the Reds tonight - that I'd rather spend the evening reading YouTube comments or some [censored] like that instead. A friend had the gall to reply that the Reds were actually winning at that point as if I'd be sorry. I don't even need to look up the final score to know how that turned out.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Well if it makes you feel any better rumors abound over at RZ that the Reds are hot for Colorado's Garrett Atkins.

"Who the fuck" you say? A 30 year old futility infielder on the downside of a mediocre career and OPSing .632 this year...in Coors field. I swear to god the name mentioned in return for this gem is Nick Masset.
:stupid:

Thats exactly the type of shit I've been talking about and fearing they would do. This FO is on another fucking planet when it comes to what they think this team needs.

 

[scott91575]

Well if it makes you feel any better rumors abound over at RZ that the Reds are hot for Colorado's Garrett Atkins.

"Who the [censored]" you say? A 30 year old futility infielder on the downside of a mediocre career and OPSing .632 this year...in Coors field. I swear to god the name mentioned in return for this gem is Nick Masset.
:stupid:

Thats exactly the type of [censored] I've been talking about and fearing they would do. This FO is on another [censored]ing planet when it comes to what they think this team needs.

Well I'll play wait and see on this one. RZ has a new rumor with no validity almost every hour. It turns into a huge thread, and then people take it as truth. I like the place for minor league info/talk. That is about it.

As for the rumor....Masset is the future setup man for this team so if they dealt him it would be immensely stupid.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Well I'll play wait and see on this one. RZ has a new rumor with no validity almost every hour. It turns into a huge thread, and then people take it as truth. I like the place for minor league info/talk. That is about it.

As for the rumor....Masset is the future setup man for this team so if they dealt him it would be immensely stupid.

Its more of the pattern of names mentioned in all the rumors that bothers me. These come from beat writers and insiders mostly. There is no doubt in my mind the type of guy the Reds are after right now is a DeRosa/Atkins/Teahan type of veteran blah.

 

[Jaxbuck]

fay clears up the Atkins talk (thank god).

On the Garrett Atkins report
Posted by JohnFay at 7/9/2009 6:37 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

Just spoke to someone from the Reds about the Garrett Atkins report from the Denver Post.

Sounds like the Rockies called to see if the Reds were interested. They aren't for two reasons: a) Atkins is owed $3.4 million for the rest of the year; b) he plays first or third.

The Reds might added salary for the right guy, like they were with Mark DeRosa. But Atkins is hitting .226 with six homers and 25 RBI and isn't as versatile at DeRosa. Atkins is also a free agent after the season.

The Reds have enough depth in the bullpen to move a reliever. But the chances of trading Nick Masset are about zero.

I like the comment about not trading Masset. That makes me feel better.

The reasons why they weren't interested in Atkins didn't include him being a shitty hitter. That scares me a bit.