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Reds Tidbits (2009 season)

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Jaxbuck;1509699; said:
If true we still paid 2M next year for Rolen and gave up 2 prospects. Not as bad as 6M but I still can't agree with taking on salary and shipping out prospects for the privilege of doing so.
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EE's salary was going to go up after 2010 (arbitration year) anyway, and it likely would have wound up costing the Reds despite his being an absolute liability on defense. Rolen's declining power probably gets a boost from GABP, and he actually wants to be there since it puts him 3 hours from his home in Indiana.

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions yet. The Reds F.O. might be a ship without a rudder, but J.P. Ricciardi isn't exactly the second coming of Ed Barrow. I have to have faith that Walt knows something everybody else doesn't -- if not at least more than Ricciardi.
 
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Thump, buckeyegrad and myself went to the game yesterday. Why I'm not sure, but tickets were half off so that was good as we were 9 rows from the field. Thump came unglued and I think scared half the people around us when they brought in Homer Bailey to pinch hit. Whats even worse is they had Janish in the on deck circle and pulled him back in after the walk and sent out Bailey. Also does Baker ever argue calls really? he waddles his as out there points at the ground a couple of times then walks back in the dugout. I don't care if the guy was safe on that double play or not, if you as the manager think it is close enough to argue in extra innings, you should be running out there dropping f bombs and throwing shit before you are even out of the dugout.
 
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So they actually manage to get the tying runs on 2nd and 3rd with two out in the bottom of the 9th down 4-2. Then, in a Hollywood-esq moment Willy Tavaras strides to the plate representing the teams hopes to break the skid.
The Natural music is playing in the background as wee Willy Hobbs digs in, determined to make up for his 0-4 night.

He calls time to go back over to the bat boy, looks at the young man and starts to say "pick me out a winner" when Thump breaks loose of the crowd trying to restrain him and screams out "Like it fucking matters you piece of shit!!" before he is tackled and led away by security.

Visibly unnerved Tavaras completes the golden sombrero by going 0-5 with a weak grounder to first, game over.
 
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I like the trade...

Hopefully we tank this season and we get rid of Dusty...That would be step #1...

Step #2...Pitching...What at one point looked like a very promising staff is not looking so great anymore...But for the team to compete we need to get this back together...Then pen is finally in place...We have some talented arms...Volquez being hurt, hurts...harang, where have you gone? Hopefully time this year gives Bailey some good time to learn...

Step #3...Get rid of the Virus...Lets see if stubbs is ready to go...His #'s in AAA and his ability to play gold glove level defense say he would be a very good asset in the leadoff spot...

Step #4...Somehow someway we need to find someone here...If we are going to have a guy that can't hit, get someone that is damn good at defense and bat him 8...

Step #5...LF..Gomes/Nix is not a bad platoon, but if we could get a big time bat here, that could put our offense in a respectful category...

Lineup...

Stubbs - CF (370 OBP / 750 OPS)
Hanigan - C (400 OBP)
Votto - 1B (Stud)
Rolen - 3B (820 OPS)
Bruce - RF (820 OPS)
Phillips - 2B (This puts him in a spot where he doesn't have to be the big run producer, and he will probably see better pitches...
LF - If you get a bat, you put them in the 4 hole and move the rest of the guys down, which makes the lineup that much better.
SS

Obviously there are some things that need to fall into place.

I don't like to say the team is not that far off, because that would mean they would need to make the right moves, and Pitching would need to come back together, but I don't hate the move, and if we can get healthy for next year, I like Rolen in the middle of the lineup...
 
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crazybuckfan40;1509932; said:
I like the trade...

Hopefully we tank this season and we get rid of Dusty...That would be step #1...

That's going to happen either way I think....

Step #2...Pitching...What at one point looked like a very promising staff is not looking so great anymore...But for the team to compete we need to get this back together...Then pen is finally in place...We have some talented arms...Volquez being hurt, hurts...harang, where have you gone? Hopefully time this year gives Bailey some good time to learn...

the one to watch is Cueto. Volquez got hurt and the idea might be to let Cueto pitch his way through August and September without worry for innings. That's a BAD thing IMO.

Step #3...Get rid of the Virus...Lets see if stubbs is ready to go...His #'s in AAA and his ability to play gold glove level defense say he would be a very good asset in the leadoff spot...

Taveras is wasted space. They should just cut him and take the loss in $$$

Step #4...Somehow someway we need to find someone here...If we are going to have a guy that can't hit, get someone that is damn good at defense and bat him 8...

Cincinnati is in need of the 20 homer 85 RBI guy that just quietly goes about his business, plays solid defense and doesn't get compared to anyone from the 70s.

Step #5...LF..Gomes/Nix is not a bad platoon, but if we could get a big time bat here, that could put our offense in a respectful category...

Lineup...

Stubbs - CF (370 OBP / 750 OPS)
Hanigan - C (400 OBP)
Votto - 1B (Stud)
Rolen - 3B (820 OPS)
Bruce - RF (820 OPS)
Phillips - 2B (This puts him in a spot where he doesn't have to be the big run producer, and he will probably see better pitches...
LF - If you get a bat, you put them in the 4 hole and move the rest of the guys down, which makes the lineup that much better.
SS

Obviously there are some things that need to fall into place.

I'd actually think about batting phillips in the 2 hole if you get a leadoff guy who can get on in a better than average clip. He's a good fastball hitter and while he strikes out a ton, I think he can play the role. I don't think batting the catcher in the 2 hole is a good idea though, too much wear and tear and Hanigan strikes me as a guy who could fade a bit as the season goes along.

I don't like to say the team is not that far off, because that would mean they would need to make the right moves, and Pitching would need to come back together, but I don't hate the move, and if we can get healthy for next year, I like Rolen in the middle of the lineup...

What this team really needs to do is have a truly AWFUL season. Flirting with the .500 mark again this season has just delayed the inevitable collapse and now yet another trade deadline has passed and this franchise hasn't given itself a true boost either with prospects or veterans to get to the finish line (had they actually been buyers)...this way there wouldn't be the "If we only had some pitching" or the "well if our hitters hit their average season, we'll be right there" type of bullshit. The idea is to build a team where every guy in the lineup can pick the other up if needed. cincy has had that since the early 90s IMO.
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Buckeyemike80 signing off for JO4H :biggrin:
 
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crazybuckfan40;1509932; said:
I like the trade...

Hopefully we tank this season and we get rid of Dusty...That would be step #1...

Step #2...Pitching...What at one point looked like a very promising staff is not looking so great anymore...But for the team to compete we need to get this back together...Then pen is finally in place...We have some talented arms...Volquez being hurt, hurts...harang, where have you gone? Hopefully time this year gives Bailey some good time to learn...

Step #3...Get rid of the Virus...Lets see if stubbs is ready to go...His #'s in AAA and his ability to play gold glove level defense say he would be a very good asset in the leadoff spot...

Step #4...Somehow someway we need to find someone here...If we are going to have a guy that can't hit, get someone that is damn good at defense and bat him 8...

Step #5...LF..Gomes/Nix is not a bad platoon, but if we could get a big time bat here, that could put our offense in a respectful category...

Lineup...

Stubbs - CF (370 OBP / 750 OPS)
Hanigan - C (400 OBP)
Votto - 1B (Stud)
Rolen - 3B (820 OPS)
Bruce - RF (820 OPS)
Phillips - 2B (This puts him in a spot where he doesn't have to be the big run producer, and he will probably see better pitches...
LF - If you get a bat, you put them in the 4 hole and move the rest of the guys down, which makes the lineup that much better.
SS

Obviously there are some things that need to fall into place.

I don't like to say the team is not that far off, because that would mean they would need to make the right moves, and Pitching would need to come back together, but I don't hate the move, and if we can get healthy for next year, I like Rolen in the middle of the lineup...
Click to expand...


You might get an .820 from Rolen, the question is over how many games? What if Bruce is the complete bust in 2010 he has been so far in his career?

Unless something else comes out about the money significantly different than what we have heard to this point there is no way to look at this trade as a positive. You don't take on salary and give up prospects for Rolen at this stage of his career. Especially when the market is over valuing prospects like crazy right now.

I have no issue with Rolen (other than his age, bad back and salary) I simply think Walt 1) over paid big time 2) got himself into situation where he gave up leverage for no good reason. Why allow yourself to feel the pressure of the deadline for a team in the Reds spot? If you think Rolen is part of the plan going forward then fine, get him this off season, he would still be there and then you can pay a more reasonable price. Whats left of 2009 means nothing.

Walt sold his prospects low and bought his aging vet high. Dumb business move period.

And don't even get me started about why you make this move for 2010 when they had to have known they would be without Volquez. What the fuck good does Rolen do for this team with a whole season of even worse pitching next year?

I have been saying for years that every season they delay the needed complete tear down is just another season added to this pathetic string of losing. Here we are in 2009 and its the same old shit.

Scott Rolen by himself does exactly dick for this team in the next couple of years and how much longer than that do you think he'll be any good? What he does is completely gridlock the payroll for 2010 so now you have 3 options:

1) Stand pat with what you have because you obviously brought Rolen in to win now. Moving any of the dead weight salary blows holes in your MLB team with no minor leaguers ready to step in. Fun part is this team as is right now sucks donkey balls and will be worse in 2010 without Volquez.

2) Add to payroll significantly for 2010 to bring in some talent while this self induced Rolen window is open. I'll believe that shit when I see it.

3) Wait for 2011 when you (hopefully) get Volquez back and a lot of the bad Krivsky contracts fall off while praying to God some of the minor league talent is ready by then. This doesn't jive with the win now mantra and requires a new contract extension for Rolen after his age 35 season. Lather, rinse and repeat.

I hate to always have to take the negative side of things but 2 plus 2 is 4. This trade made no sense.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;1510413; said:
BTW, for whatever it's worth I think this team is a bit better overall than the current 7 game losing streak and the .429 winning percentage. I am starting to think that maybe this team has quit on Dusty finally though.
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Regression to the mean imo. They played over their head early now they are playing below their capabilities.

I hope they fire Dusty anyway.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;1510431; said:
Which means they'll finish the last 2 weeks of the season at a .800 clip and get everyone back on the bandwagon for next year :evil:
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Yep, and fuck up their draft pick.

They have a real shot at #2 (Washington actually gets 1 and 2 if they don't sign whats his nuts from last year) if they just stay the course but the Reds being the Reds, they'll fuck it up.
 
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Balumdadump just homered. What say you now Jax? :lol:

I heard on the radio just moments ago, on my drive back home from the folks house, that Dusty made a comment today, something to the effect that this team is really close, he can just feel it. I think he is certainly close to something.. hopefully that is the unemployment line.
 
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schwab;1510462; said:
Balumdadump just homered. What say you now Jax? :lol:
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I like Balderdash. He's from the "swing hard in case you hit something" school of hitting which is always good because it annoys the likes of Marty and H&G.

I don't mind a dumpster dive on a guy like him, I just don't like dumpster diving to be the only thing our GM's bring to the table.

I heard on the radio just moments ago, on my drive back home from the folks house, that Dusty made a comment today, something to the effect that this team is really close, he can just feel it. I think he is certainly close to something.. hopefully that is the unemployment line.
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Better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you are an idiot Dusty than to open it and leave no doubt.
 
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