Reds Tidbits (2007 Season)

[Bestbuck36]

I know most of you guys are on his bandwagon, but EdE has to make a change or trade him. His mental game is horseshit. He hasn't earned the right to play more and thats a fact. Maybe its the way he's been managed but I don't see him making improvements. I know we don't exactly have bodies to take his place right now, but when your pitcher gets into the 7th inning allowing 0 earned runs, at a time when the bullpen needs a break.......WTF?!?!? The guys loses more games than he wins for us. I can't help it, I want him to be our everyday 3rd baseman and become the player that his potential says he should be but its not happening. At least not in Cincinnati.

Every night we're on here bitching about the bullpen and Milty, Cormier and Stanton, with perfect reason. Once in a while we have to catch a break. Finally, when the pitching out of the bullpen shuts em down we give it away in the field. Last night, or the night before I can't remember which, EdE makes a bonehead play not looking the runner back to 3rd on what should've been a routine ground ball. We get the out but the runner scored. Oh yeah, what was the final? 7-6. Shit. Bring up the AAA players I'm tired of watching this crap.

(Let me stress the fact that I'm living in Arizona now with no family and few friends, and my Bucks and Reds are my ties to home. Depressing.):(

 

[Jaxbuck]

Well, if it wasn't bad enough. getting beat by Woody Williams on the mound, he did it with his bat too. At least the bullpen didn't blow it.

Going to the game tomorrow, I think they should make beer 1/2 price to make it somewhat tolerable to watch this nonsense.

They are finding ways to lose now. Its as bad as I've ever seen it. Worst part is they are close to winning damn near all of these. I'd rather just see them get shit hammered in every facet of the game and know they are hopeless. The reality is they are nowhere near as bad as they are playing. They just can't catch a break.

10 fucking games out before Mothers day. Unreal.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I know most of you guys are on his bandwagon, but EdE has to make a change or trade him. His mental game is horseshit. He hasn't earned the right to play more and thats a fact. Maybe its the way he's been managed but I don't see him making improvements. I know we don't exactly have bodies to take his place right now, but when your pitcher gets into the 7th inning allowing 0 earned runs, at a time when the bullpen needs a break.......WTF?!?!? The guys loses more games than he wins for us. I can't help it, I want him to be our everyday 3rd baseman and become the player that his potential says he should be but its not happening. At least not in Cincinnati.

Every night we're on here bitching about the bullpen and Milty, Cormier and Stanton, with perfect reason. Once in a while we have to catch a break. Finally, when the pitching out of the bullpen shuts em down we give it away in the field. Last night, or the night before I can't remember which, EdE makes a bonehead play not looking the runner back to 3rd on what should've been a routine ground ball. We get the out but the runner scored. Oh yeah, what was the final? 7-6. Shit. Bring up the AAA players I'm tired of watching this crap.

(Let me stress the fact that I'm living in Arizona now with no family and few friends, and my Bucks and Reds are my ties to home. Depressing.):(

I know its tough but I think they need to be patient with EE. He's the poster child lately for hard luck hitting. He'll come out of this slump soon enough. Its the mental lapses on D that really sour people on him. This year is shot, nothing to be gained in AAA for EE. Freel or castro at 3B sure aren't going to put us over the top.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I still think that with a young guy like EE when you are taking him in and out of the lineup like they have been doing, that it will just mess with his head...

I still think it is going to be Livingston that gets Milton's spot as they have had him pitching on the same day as Milton all season in Louisville...

Homer won't be up till late in the season IMO, he is still working on pitches and they arent going to rush him for a team that is playing like shit...

 

[CookyPuss]

I still think that with a young guy like EE when you are taking him in and out of the lineup like they have been doing, that it will just mess with his head...

I still think it is going to be Livingston that gets Milton's spot as they have had him pitching on the same day as Milton all season in Louisville...

Homer won't be up till late in the season IMO, he is still working on pitches and they arent going to rush him for a team that is playing like shit...

That all sounds about right. Sorry, out of rep for you.

 

[Bestbuck36]

You're right. I apologize for all of the negativity. Sometimes you just need something to hold on to and watching that stuff night in and night out, well it sucks.

I was talking to a guy on RZ and he brought up an interesting plan. EdE playing first if Joey Votto doesn't get it together by the end of the year. It would nullify his piss poor throwing to first. His glove isnt that bad its him getting the ball to first that just sucks. I know his bat will improve with more playing time but how much better? Can anyone else play third? How about Hamilton? Votto or Bruce can play outfield. Just looking for some alternatives. I don't think Freel is bad at third, he just doesn't know where he's going to play all of the time, and third will maybe keep him from killing himself.

Milton is probably gone. TY God! Who comes up? Livingston? Homer? Dumatrait? If it were the All-Star break I'd say trade Lohse or Belisle and bring em all up. What about rotating 3 guys in 2 spots making the off week a long relief appearance for the odd man out? This day and age in baseball guys cant do anymore than their job description unfortunately and thats all because of the impact Agents have had on the game. I think guys could play longer but their agents tell them if they do more they should expect more money. Nobody plays it like Pete anymore, except maybe Freel, and thats shameful.

What else do we do, just sit back and dream of a winner in Cincy or continue to do what we do and complain and hypothesize about "better lineups?" I'm guessing we'll just keep doing the things we do because even though they suck, its better than having no team at all to root for. Isnt it?

 

[Bestbuck36]

That all sounds about right. Sorry, out of rep for you.

I hit em for ya.

 

[CookyPuss]

You're right. I apologize for all of the negativity. Sometimes you just need something to hold on to and watching that stuff night in and night out, well it sucks.

I was talking to a guy on RZ and he brought up an interesting plan. EdE playing first if Joey Votto doesn't get it together by the end of the year. It would nullify his piss poor throwing to first. His glove isnt that bad its him getting the ball to first that just sucks. I know his bat will improve with more playing time but how much better? Can anyone else play third? How about Hamilton? Votto or Bruce can play outfield. Just looking for some alternatives. I don't think Freel is bad at third, he just doesn't know where he's going to play all of the time, and third will maybe keep him from killing himself.

Don't worry about the negativity. This team deserves all the criticism they are getting right now. EE is frustrating, but he is a very young player. I've never heard anything negative about his work ethic. As Welsh said on the broadcast tonight, he just needs to stop thinking so much. A wise man once said, "It's a simple game. You hit the ball, you catch the ball, you throw the ball!"

 

[Jaxbuck]

You're right. I apologize for all of the negativity. Sometimes you just need something to hold on to and watching that stuff night in and night out, well it sucks.

I was talking to a guy on RZ and he brought up an interesting plan. EdE playing first if Joey Votto doesn't get it together by the end of the year. It would nullify his piss poor throwing to first. His glove isnt that bad its him getting the ball to first that just sucks. I know his bat will improve with more playing time but how much better? Can anyone else play third? How about Hamilton? Votto or Bruce can play outfield. Just looking for some alternatives. I don't think Freel is bad at third, he just doesn't know where he's going to play all of the time, and third will maybe keep him from killing himself.

Milton is probably gone. TY God! Who comes up? Livingston? Homer? Dumatrait? If it were the All-Star break I'd say trade Lohse or Belisle and bring em all up. What about rotating 3 guys in 2 spots making the off week a long relief appearance for the odd man out? This day and age in baseball guys cant do anymore than their job description unfortunately and thats all because of the impact Agents have had on the game. I think guys could play longer but their agents tell them if they do more they should expect more money. Nobody plays it like Pete anymore, except maybe Freel, and thats shameful.

What else do we do, just sit back and dream of a winner in Cincy or continue to do what we do and complain and hypothesize about "better lineups?" I'm guessing we'll just keep doing the things we do because even though they suck, its better than having no team at all to root for. Isnt it?

Don't sweat the negativity, these dickheads deserve it.

As for 3B, the short answer is no. No one else can play it in the organization on an everyday basis. Personally I wouldn't waste EE's range and arm at 1B and I don't know that he'll have a 1B's lumber. Give him time, he'll be fine.

He is extremely young, you have to endure the growing pains.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

You're right. I apologize for all of the negativity. Sometimes you just need something to hold on to and watching that stuff night in and night out, well it sucks.

I was talking to a guy on RZ and he brought up an interesting plan. EdE playing first if Joey Votto doesn't get it together by the end of the year. It would nullify his piss poor throwing to first. His glove isnt that bad its him getting the ball to first that just sucks. I know his bat will improve with more playing time but how much better? Can anyone else play third? How about Hamilton? Votto or Bruce can play outfield. Just looking for some alternatives. I don't think Freel is bad at third, he just doesn't know where he's going to play all of the time, and third will maybe keep him from killing himself.

Milton is probably gone. TY God! Who comes up? Livingston? Homer? Dumatrait? If it were the All-Star break I'd say trade Lohse or Belisle and bring em all up. What about rotating 3 guys in 2 spots making the off week a long relief appearance for the odd man out? This day and age in baseball guys cant do anymore than their job description unfortunately and thats all because of the impact Agents have had on the game. I think guys could play longer but their agents tell them if they do more they should expect more money. Nobody plays it like Pete anymore, except maybe Freel, and thats shameful.

What else do we do, just sit back and dream of a winner in Cincy or continue to do what we do and complain and hypothesize about "better lineups?" I'm guessing we'll just keep doing the things we do because even though they suck, its better than having no team at all to root for. Isnt it?

I still think Votto will be fine...He is a very good hitter, just battling some bad luck right now as his hits seem to be going right at guys...He is drawing lots of walks and not striking out much...

The guy that you need to look for to maybe man 3rd or 2nd by 09 is Valaika he is just drilling low A pitching right now, and he drilled pitching in Billings last year...He plays short right now, but doesnt have a good enough glove to stay there...He would be a great option for the 2 hole in a couple years, and allow us to trade Phillips or like you say trade EE, Votto...

I would say outfield will be ok with guys like Hamilton, Dunn, Bruce, Freel, Hopper, and Griff manning the positions in the next year and then you have Stubbs who is still needs refinement, but IMO I think he will end up a solid hitter and great defensive CF with a little pop...K's more than most would like tho...

I just keep telling myself that we are going to turn it around and that these games could of just as easily been going our way if we would of got the bounces, made a play or two or some of those balls like EE's tonite that were scorched would find the ground instead of someones glove...

I honestly do believe that this team has talent to be a .500 team which is something we havent seen in Cincy for a while and is a step in the right direction, but I think the first step needs to be getting rid of Narron, it really seems like all the players just think to much with all the lineup switches, overuse, underuse and just things that Major league players should not have to worry about...

 

[Bestbuck36]

I still think Votto will be fine...He is a very good hitter, just battling some bad luck right now as his hits seem to be going right at guys...He is drawing lots of walks and not striking out much...

The guy that you need to look for to maybe man 3rd or 2nd by 09 is Valaika he is just drilling low A pitching right now, and he drilled pitching in Billings last year...He plays short right now, but doesnt have a good enough glove to stay there...He would be a great option for the 2 hole in a couple years, and allow us to trade Phillips or like you say trade EE, Votto...

I would say outfield will be ok with guys like Hamilton, Dunn, Bruce, Freel, Hopper, and Griff manning the positions in the next year and then you have Stubbs who is still needs refinement, but IMO I think he will end up a solid hitter and great defensive CF with a little pop...K's more than most would like tho...

I just keep telling myself that we are going to turn it around and that these games could of just as easily been going our way if we would of got the bounces, made a play or two or some of those balls like EE's tonite that were scorched would find the ground instead of someones glove...

I honestly do believe that this team has talent to be a .500 team which is something we havent seen in Cincy for a while and is a step in the right direction, but I think the first step needs to be getting rid of Narron, it really seems like all the players just think to much with all the lineup switches, overuse, underuse and just things that Major league players should not have to worry about...

I agree about Votto, and with most everything else you said here. I actually like what Hopper can bring to the table also. He's not going to hit many HR's but he should hit for a decent average, steal some bases and play good defense, I'll take those attributes any day. Hamilton is going to be a fixture unless the demons come back. Cross your fingers there. He has too much talent to fade. He may hit a slump, everyone does, but I dont see him falling too far. I love Phillips' game and the way he and Gonzalez have meshed I'd love to see that combination for the next 5 years. What we do at the corners is still up for grabs and if we could get a dynamite closer for Dunn, who knows. Right now though it definitely looks as if he might be turning the corner. He's got multiple opposite field HR's already and the average will come eventually. Never really over .300 maybe but .280's with his power I'll take that.

If you would've told me going into the season we'd have a legitimate top 5 rotation in the national league I'd have bet big on at least .500. I honestly felt we had enough arms in the bullpen to hold it together. Geez.

Now, hypothetically speaking. Let's say Bob Cast has given WK until the All-Star break to pull it together or Narron is fired with him on deck. Who replaces Narron? Will WK go for the blockbuster or the dumpster dive while shedding payroll option? I tend to think the blockbuster if he can pull it off. The thing I've seen so far is that Bob Cast isnt afraid to spend money necessarily, but like everyone else- wants some bang for his buck. I guess we'll eat Milton's contract and who elses? Whats the best case scenario? Opinions?
The worst case is that we do nothing and watch this futile effort all season and wonder if there's hope for next year. I don't think they're far off just one or two key pieces in the bullpen could make a huge difference.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I agree about Votto, and with most everything else you said here. I actually like what Hopper can bring to the table also. He's not going to hit many HR's but he should hit for a decent average, steal some bases and play good defense, I'll take those attributes any day. Hamilton is going to be a fixture unless the demons come back. Cross your fingers there. He has too much talent to fade. He may hit a slump, everyone does, but I dont see him falling too far. I love Phillips' game and the way he and Gonzalez have meshed I'd love to see that combination for the next 5 years. What we do at the corners is still up for grabs and if we could get a dynamite closer for Dunn, who knows. Right now though it definitely looks as if he might be turning the corner. He's got multiple opposite field HR's already and the average will come eventually. Never really over .300 maybe but .280's with his power I'll take that.

I also like what Phillips and Gonzo bring to the table, but if they have someone ready in the system or see a move of maybe EE to second or something, then if they can get something out of them then I am for trading them...As far as Dunn we saw that stuff early in the year, but it is like he is back to his long looping homerun swing...When he was using all fields he was on his way to becoming a dynamite hitter...

If you would've told me going into the season we'd have a legitimate top 5 rotation in the national league I'd have bet big on at leas
t .500. I honestly felt we had enough arms in the bullpen to hold it together. Geez.

I agree, I think there has been lots of bad luck to go with our bullpen...Once some guys come back from injury I think that we will start to put some wins together...

Now, hypothetically speaking. Let's say Bob Cast has given WK until the All-Star break to pull it together or Narron is fired with him on deck. Who replaces Narron? Will WK go for the blockbuster or the dumpster dive while shedding payroll option? I tend to think the blockbuster if he can pull it off. The thing I've seen so far is that Bob Cast isnt afraid to spend money necessarily, but like everyone else- wants some bang for his buck. I guess we'll eat Milton's contract and who elses? Whats the best case scenario? Opinions?
The worst case is that we do nothing and watch this futile effort all season and wonder if there's hope for next year. I don't think they're far off just one or two key pieces in the bullpen could make a huge difference.

If we had a guy that could shorten the game by being at the end of the game...IMO we would be 10 wins or so better...Milk has struggled thru these problems and injuries to their starters the past couple years, but this year they have Cordero and Turnbow at the back of their pen throwing great and it is showing...

Our starting rotation is too good not to be winnning more games...

I still think a guy like Coffey has closer stuff, just not the head to go with it, but he could be a setup man if we could just find someone to close the deal...

 

[CookyPuss]

If you would've told me going into the season we'd have a legitimate top 5 rotation in the national league I'd have bet big on at least .500. I honestly felt we had enough arms in the bullpen to hold it together. Geez.

Now, hypothetically speaking. Let's say Bob Cast has given WK until the All-Star break to pull it together or Narron is fired with him on deck. Who replaces Narron? Will WK go for the blockbuster or the dumpster dive while shedding payroll option? I tend to think the blockbuster if he can pull it off. The thing I've seen so far is that Bob Cast isnt afraid to spend money necessarily, but like everyone else- wants some bang for his buck. I guess we'll eat Milton's contract and who elses? Whats the best case scenario? Opinions?
The worst case is that we do nothing and watch this futile effort all season and wonder if there's hope for next year. I don't think they're far off just one or two key pieces in the bullpen could make a huge difference.

I think bringing in one or two pieces for the bullpen would help get this team to .500 and if the Brewers come back to earth that could put them in the hunt in September. But let's face it, if this team is going to get better long term, that is not the kind of trade they need to be making. Basically, I think you make three lists: guys you want to build around, guys you want to shop, and guys that have to go. You have your firesale and try to stockpile as many good young players as possible. Like Jax said, you entertain all offers.

I think Dunn and Lohse are the two guys who could bring the most at the deadline if they continue to put up numbers. Both are going to demand bank next year and moving forward. Those are the kind of players you can turn over for a major haul of prospects because they are relatively young and can help push a team over the edge down the stretch. The aging vets, Stanton, Weathers, Hatte, Conine, Milton, and Griff (if he waives his no trade) can probably get a decent return from the right team with a need (especially if you can package a couple of them together).

The last firesale they had netted Harang for Guillen, Claussen (bust) for Boone, and Dumatrait (looking good) for Williamson. I remember a lot of people bitching at the time, but I'd trade Guillen, Boone, and Williamson for Harang and Dumatrait still might work out as a ML starter.

Best case, they can manuvre deals to get 2-3 young pitching guns, a middle infielder, a stud catcher, and a right handed bat/lead off type. Worst case they sign Dunn and Lohse to long term deals, hang onto Stanton, Weathers, and Griffey and they deal Edwin for a closer. They win a couple more games this year, but the future is no brighter.

 

[CookyPuss]

Well, he's still Narron's whipping boy:

LINK
From the Reds: The Reds today optioned to Louisville 3B Edwin Encarnacion and recalled from Louisville IF Jeff Keppinger (#27).

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Well, he's still Narron's whipping boy:

LINK
From the Reds: The Reds today optioned to Louisville 3B Edwin Encarnacion and recalled from Louisville IF Jeff Keppinger (#27).

I fuckin' hate this move...