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- Thread starter OSUBasketballJunkie
- Start date
schwab
Donkey Punch Ann Arbor
MuckFich06;870995; said:
Sadly enough, I see your point, and I agree. The general fan base will get the FO close to what is has gotten used to IE ticket sales. In an ideal world trading Griffey (and others) would bring the correct group of prospects to Cincinnati, which could lead to a winning team, which could then sell even more tickets. That's just me though. Way to go Junior.
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I live in Florida meaning I'll never use them but I swear to God I'll buy seasons tickets tommorrow if they'll fire Krivsky.
Better yet, sell tickets to his firing and let me watch him clear his shit out of his office. I'll not only buy tickets to that, I'll fly up to use them.
Point being...fuck the short sighted penny pinching mindset. Trade JR and get something that can actually help this club compete sometime in the near future. I love the guy but if he'll ok a trade and the return is worth it you have to pull the trigger.
Better yet, sell tickets to his firing and let me watch him clear his shit out of his office. I'll not only buy tickets to that, I'll fly up to use them.
Point being...fuck the short sighted penny pinching mindset. Trade JR and get something that can actually help this club compete sometime in the near future. I love the guy but if he'll ok a trade and the return is worth it you have to pull the trigger.
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I totally see where you guys are coming from, and usually I would agree, but not anymore. I have completely given up on this FO. Cincinnati will never have a winner again as long as this type of FO exists there. Everyone has thought it already I'm just saying it. Considering the current state of affairs, I do not want Ken Griffey Jr. traded. He is one of maybe 3 or 4 players I tune in daily to check on. The current only bright spots are Griff, Hamilton and Bailey. By trading one of those guys this season I will forfeit my fan membership and never watch them again.
The reason behind not wanting to trade them is the fact that we will still have the same FO here to fuck up any players we would get in return. Maybe in 2 or 3 years we'd have another bright spot to cling to, but a well below .500 baseball team due to an uninformed organization and piss poor management! I do not want the only things I have left to enjoy seeing everyday get traded away to a team that I despise, and watch them win it all!
Screw Wayne Krivsky. Screw Jerry Narron. Screw Bob Castellini's lazy ass for letting this stuff continue to happen.
A bonafide closer. A bonafide leadoff hitter. A manager who actually knows the game and how to manage it. Thats if folks. The other pieces are good enough to not only contend in this wretched division, but win this division. There are plenty of good young players in the organization right now to compete for at least 5 years. Its up to the farm system to develop the free agents, draft choices and players bouncing up and down from AAA to the show. An overhaul from the top down is needed, not a fire sale of players again. We could get some good players in return but when the rest of it is shit, why bother?
The reason behind not wanting to trade them is the fact that we will still have the same FO here to fuck up any players we would get in return. Maybe in 2 or 3 years we'd have another bright spot to cling to, but a well below .500 baseball team due to an uninformed organization and piss poor management! I do not want the only things I have left to enjoy seeing everyday get traded away to a team that I despise, and watch them win it all!
Screw Wayne Krivsky. Screw Jerry Narron. Screw Bob Castellini's lazy ass for letting this stuff continue to happen.
A bonafide closer. A bonafide leadoff hitter. A manager who actually knows the game and how to manage it. Thats if folks. The other pieces are good enough to not only contend in this wretched division, but win this division. There are plenty of good young players in the organization right now to compete for at least 5 years. Its up to the farm system to develop the free agents, draft choices and players bouncing up and down from AAA to the show. An overhaul from the top down is needed, not a fire sale of players again. We could get some good players in return but when the rest of it is shit, why bother?
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
Dispatch
Reds: Seattle crowd cheers as Griffey homers twice against his former team
Monday, June 25, 2007 3:28 AM
By Gregg Bell
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Ted S. Warren Associated Press
The Reds' Ken Griffey Jr. watches the 584th home run of his career, which moved him into seventh place on the all-time list.
SEATTLE -- Ken Griffey Jr. enjoyed the final day of his Seattle homecoming so much, he was still laughing in the Cincinnati Reds dugout and wearing a collared shirt and blue jeans 40 minutes before the first pitch.
It didn't seem to affect his swing.
Griffey hit two home runs to pass Mark McGwire for seventh place on the career list in the Reds' 3-2 loss to the Mariners yesterday.
Continued.....
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
Cincy
Arroyo: Progress, despite loss
Hurler feels stronger, pitches better, still loses
BY JOHN FAY | [email protected]
SEATTLE - Bronson Arroyo takes every loss pretty hard.
But he couldn't help feeling a bit better about himself after his performance in the Reds' 3-2 loss to the Seattle Mariners on Sunday.
Arroyo went seven innings and allowed three runs on 10 hits. He walked one and struck out four. It was his best outing since May 16.
Continued....
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coastalbuck;871799; said:Here's a little Kriv. discussion for you Jax.....
Yeah I saw that one. A couple of pretty active threads at RZ about both parts.
As far as firing krivsky goes this trade deadline will cement it imo. If he pulls out some miracle work then I'll start to reconsider my opinion of him. If he stands pat or makes another trade as bad as the last big one there can be no doubt the man is in over his head.
BTW I'm of the opinion that if you trade Dunn and or JR you are gutting an already mediocre offense to the point you better damn well sell off Harang and Arroyo as well because they won't have any value to us at their age and our level of suck the next few years.
If they want to have a shred of a chance to win with Homer, Votto and Bruce they almost have to keep Dunn and JR.
That limits the trade pieces to Hatte, Conine, Lohse(hopefully), Stanton (hopefully), Weathers, Javy, and maybe Freel. Still some tools to work with there....we shall see if numbnuts can do anything with it.
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
Jaxbuck;871883; said:
I will disagree with this some...I don't see any reason to have to trade Harang and Arroyo if you trade Dunn and Jr...
Outfielders are a lot easier to come by than two solid starters like Harang and Arroyo...
This team is a legit leadoff hitter, that can play everyday, make things happen on the bases, and a rbi guy or two from having a solid offense...
At this point a lot of it is homerun or nothing, and with a guy like Votto in the lineup to go along with EE, you have two solid run producing guys, that arent going to kill rallys, and you have the same thing when we get Bruce up here...
What I would love to get for this team is a catcher that can hit for average and produce some runs, and I would really love if we could get a SS, that could either leadoff or hit in the two hole...One that can really handle the bat see pitches and just do things that leadoff or 2 hole hitters should do...
I really think that Griffey and Dunn should be able to get us some of these parts...
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crazybuckfan40;872448; said:
Arroyo had a career year in '06 he's MLB average at best. Harang is the only solid starter this team owns.
Bruce and Votto have not seen a MLB pitch yet, you can't say plug them in and they'll make up for losing the likes of Dunn and Griffey.
Don't buy what the talking heads are selling you regarding the offense. HR's are not rally killers and the Reds offensive struggles are due to a poor team OBP not because they have good power.
If we trade Dunn and/or JR this offense will be gutted beyond the point they can bring in return. You are essentially raising the white flag on scoring runs for a couple of years and thats IF Votto and Bruce actually develop to the point where they can produce in the neighborhood of JR and Dunn. If they don't pan out it would be disgustingly bad.
As far as an offensive catcher or SS goes it would be nice. However there are no real offensive catchers in MLB, the couple there are are massivly expensive and any prospect that can really hit gets moved from C so he can play longer and get his bat in the lineup more often.
I can live with all glove no hit, cheap and young from those two positions if you have thunder everywhere else. Problem is WK went no hit, so-so glove expensive and old at SS. I can live with Ross given his age and defensive abilities. He can't hit for shit but he's got occasional power and thats about all you can get from C anymore without finding a once in a generation talent or spending gobs of money.
Fix the pitching if you want to ever see a good Reds team again.
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CookyPuss
Screw Blue
crazybuckfan40;872448; said:
Does seem like this team has fallen in love with the homer. A number of guys (especially Phillips) look like they are up there hacking for the homerun derby lately. I know it has to drive Jacoby crazy. They've really devolved into an Earl Weaver -3 run HR- offense. I don't think you can take that approach unless you have murderer's row. Any team that bats Jeff Conine in the cleanup spot does not have murderer's row.
Jaxbuck;872495; said:
I agree that the major key to the future success of this team is to have a solid, top to bottom, rotation. The Reds are now 29-48. Flip the starters record to 33-21, rather than 21-33 you get:
41-36, 4 games back
Flip the bullpen's record from 8-15 to 15-8 you get:
36-41, 9 games back.
As much as the bullpen has been maligned (deservingly so -and they have contributed to the starters record), the main problems with this team continue to be inconsistent starting pitching and hitting. Krivsky needs to take more than a band-aid approach to fix this mess.
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
Dispatch
Reds: Bailey's first lost isn't pretty
Philadelphia catcher steals home, drives in four runs
Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:30 AM
By Rob Maaddi
Associated Press
RUSTY KENNEDY Associated Press
Ryan Howard gives the Phillies a 2-1 lead in the first inning by hitting a Homer Bailey pitch into the right-field seats.
PHILADELPHIA -- Carlos Ruiz's surprise dash for home overshadowed his big night at the plate.
Ruiz drove in a career-best four runs and stole home to lead the Philadelphia Phillies past the Cincinnati Reds 11-4 last night.
"He hits the ball hard and he has a lot of power for a little guy," Philadelphia manager Charlie Manuel said.
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MuckFich06;872530; said:
Regardless of small ball or station to station long ball, no offense clicks when you are 3rd from last in OBP. Conine bats cleanup because our manager is a brain cell or two from being declared legally retarded, not because the team lacks a better option.
Personally I could care less what style of offense a team uses to score runs just as long as they are scoring runs. No one can score a lot of runs if they are making too many outs. A smart club would find players who are better than average at not making outs and let everything else take care of itself.
People are too hung up about what style of offense a team plays, they act is if there is a "right way" to score. Thats nonsense, just score runs and do a good job of preventing run production from the other side (pitching and defense).
WK seems to be one of those who is of the mindset a good pitching and defense team has to be a small ball offense. I just don't get that. They are not mutually exclusive. Give the Reds of the past few years a good pitching staff and some defense, they'd have dominated this piss poor division.
I said all off season that we would be mediocre at best because WK was taking a team that was 1st in runs scored and last in Runs allowed and making them middle of the road in both. Its just math, you can't be anything more than a .500 at best club that way. It saddens me our braintrust can't or won't see this simple shit.
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