QB Troy Smith (2006 Heisman Trophy Winner)

[Steve19]

I just want to see Troy Smith get a chance. I don't care about Flacco. I just want him to get a chance and I don't think he will with the Ravens.

That said, Troy needs to win his place in a starting side. He knows that.

 

[Colvinnl]

Like I said before..It's not like the coaches hadn't played him just to keep a guy down. They don't play him because flacco is the guy for the job. If he is leaps and bounds above flacco he would have been playing yesterday. Obviously,he isn't. How many games did he start? 2? How can you honestly compare that?

Sorry powerlifter, I think you missed my sarcasm font. I am in completely agreement with you. We all want Troy to get a chance and in my heart I think he might have done better this year than Flacco...but posters arguing that Flacco (he is a freaking rookie that played D-1AA ball!!) is a total wash are idiots--it was probably one of the most successful rookie years for a QB in NFL history and he was pretty darn good the second half of the season.

 

[23Skidoo]

So today's performance had nothing to do with steelers constantly getting through to him. Pressuring him non stop to force throws. You really believe Smith would have made a difference with zero experience. I can remember seeing him against florida basically doing the same thing flacco was doing yesterday.

Where did I ever say I thought Troy would have done better?
The thing is, Flacco did nothing that impressive. I'm not sure you can even claim the "game manager" title (which is really just a nice way of saying he's junk)... #4 rush offense... #28 pass offense. Hmmm. Wonder who really did the managing.
If I was a Ravens fan (and you can be damn sure I never will be) I'd still be looking for a QB. Troy still deserves a chance.
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for Troy to come home to Cleveland. I doubt that'll ever happen though.

Sorry powerlifter, I think you missed my sarcasm font. I am in completely agreement with you. We all want Troy to get a chance and in my heart I think he might have done better this year than Flacco...but posters arguing that Flacco (he is a freaking rookie that played D-1AA ball!!) is a total wash are idiots--it was probably one of the most successful rookie years for a QB in NFL history and he was pretty darn good the second half of the season.

:crazy:

 

[3074326]

Where did I ever say I thought Troy would have done better?
The thing is, Flacco did nothing that impressive. I'm not sure you can even claim the "game manager" title (which is really just a nice way of saying he's junk)... #4 rush offense... #28 pass offense. Hmmm. Wonder who really did the managing.
If I was a Ravens fan (and you can be damn sure I never will be) I'd still be looking for a QB. Troy still deserves a chance.
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for Troy to come home to Cleveland. I doubt that'll ever happen though.



:crazy:

I wish I could do the formula for QB rating, because Flacco's was probably damn impressive in the second half of the regular season. Since week 7, he had 14 TDs 8 INTs (including playoffs, and 5 of those picks came against one of the best defenses of all time, arguably). The dude had a good season for a rookie. Give the man some credit.

I can tell you're not a Ravens fan, because I'm pretty sure that they're not looking for another QB. They're happy that their QB was good enough in his rookie year to get them to the conference championship.

Flacco is the only rookie to start at QB and win two playoff games. In that sense, he had the best season for a rookie. I don't agree with the statement, but it's worth noting. It's ridiculous to discount what Flacco has done simply because the Ravens have a good defense.

 

[23Skidoo]

I wish I could do the formula for QB rating, because Flacco's was probably damn impressive in the second half of the regular season. Since week 7, he had 14 TDs 8 INTs (including playoffs, and 5 of those picks came against one of the best defenses of all time, arguably). The dude had a good season for a rookie. Give the man some credit.

I can tell you're not a Ravens fan, because I'm pretty sure that they're not looking for another QB. They're happy that their QB was good enough in his rookie year to get them to the conference championship.

Flacco is the only rookie to start at QB and win two playoff games. In that sense, he had the best season for a rookie. I don't agree with the statement, but it's worth noting. It's ridiculous to discount what Flacco has done simply because the Ravens have a good defense.

For starters, I didn't just highlight the defense -- I've highlighted the rushing attack as well. 4th best in NFL this year. That's very good production.

The thing is, you can make a lot of those same claims about Trent Dilfer.
But it's generally accepted that he never was very good "simply because" the Ravens had a good defense and rushing attack.
Flaccos' rating was 80.3 or something like that IIRC... it was middle of the pack. Which still isn't very impressive considering Baltimores' pass offense was rated 28th.

Ravens fans are probably still on the high of getting that far. Kind of like a lot of Browns fans after that year where Anderson actually looked half decent. The fact is that Flacco is nothing special, and he probably never will be. He's met the minimum requirements... but if he signed as a FA for the Brownies as our QB of the future, I'd be moaning.

Troy on the other hand has something special. I'm not saying that something is guaranteed to materialize... but he does deserve a chance and given the choice between a QB with a low ceiling who does the bare minimum and a QB with a high ceiling... it's a no-brainer to me.

 

[jwinslow]

but he does deserve a chance and given the choice between a QB with a low ceiling who does the bare minimum and a QB with a high ceiling... it's a no-brainer to me.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bXHPqj3NcI]YouTube - Joanna Quits[/ame]

 

[23Skidoo]

hehe exactly -- Flacco is a washed up Jennifer Aniston

 

[3074326]

How can you say that he's nothing special? There's more evidence that Flacco is something special than there is that Troy is worthy of starting. The Dilfer comparison is garbage, because Flacco is a rookie, and Dilfer was at the end of his career. It was his first season in the NFL and you're comparing him to a QB who was nothing more than average his entire career. A rookie playing at the league average level is impressive in my book. If his average play continues, they'll need a new guy, but the fact that he progressed greatly in the second half of the season has shown a lot about his mindset and ability to be a QB in the NFL.

You've also compared him to Derek Anderson, a guy who fell apart when it mattered most. Hard to say that about a guy who greatly improved in the second half of the season.

You saying that Flacco has a low ceiling is more laughable than the other person saying that Flacco had the best year for a rookie QB, ever. It's beyond ignorant.

 

[23Skidoo]

How can you say that he's nothing special? There's more evidence that Flacco is something special than there is that Troy is worthy of starting. The Dilfer comparison is garbage, because Flacco is a rookie, and Dilfer was at the end of his career. It was his first season in the NFL and you're comparing him to a QB who was nothing more than average his entire career. A rookie playing at the league average level is impressive in my book. If his average play continues, they'll need a new guy, but the fact that he progressed greatly in the second half of the season has shown a lot about his mindset and ability to be a QB in the NFL.

You've also compared him to Derek Anderson, a guy who fell apart when it mattered most. Hard to say that about a guy who greatly improved in the second half of the season.

You saying that Flacco has a low ceiling is more laughable than the other person saying that Flacco had the best year for a rookie QB, ever. It's beyond ignorant.

Alright, this is the third or fourth time I've had strawmans thrown at me here. I'm going to ask that you actually read before responding.
I never said Troy should be the starter. I said he deserves a chance -- and I didn't even say he deserves a chance with the Ravens (though ostensibly that is what I'm arguing.)

I didn't compare Flacco to Anderson -- I compared Ravens fans to Cleveland fans when expectations were exceeded. That had nothing to do with Flacco or Anderson. Must I explain the simplest of comparisons to you like we're on Sesame Street?

As for the Dilfer comparison -- all your complaints are basically exactly why I did it. Dilfer was a career mediocre QB. That's what I'm saying Flacco will be. If that's all the Ravens are looking for then ducky for them. Personally, I'd expect more.

Yes, it's good he wasn't complete dross as a rookie. Kudos to him. On a team stacked with talent he managed to look mediocre. Everyone in the NFL should be begging to trade for him now.

The fact is... he's done nothing impressive. No matter how much you want to spin, when you look at the numbers and what he's actually done... nothing stands out. The RBs and OL obviously ran the offense. The Defense obviously ran the game. All Flacco had to do was not get a case of diahrhea in the middle of throwing a screen.

 

[3074326]

Alright, this is the third or fourth time I've had strawmans thrown at me here. I'm going to ask that you actually read before responding.
I never said Troy should be the starter. I said he deserves a chance -- and I didn't even say he deserves a chance with the Ravens (though ostensibly that is what I'm arguing.)

I didn't compare Flacco to Anderson -- I compared Ravens fans to Cleveland fans when expectations were exceeded. That had nothing to do with Flacco or Anderson. Must I explain the simplest of comparisons to you like we're on Sesame Street?

As for the Dilfer comparison -- all your complaints are basically exactly why I did it. Dilfer was a career mediocre QB. That's what I'm saying Flacco will be. If that's all the Ravens are looking for then ducky for them. Personally, I'd expect more.

Yes, it's good he wasn't complete dross as a rookie. Kudos to him. On a team stacked with talent he managed to look mediocre. Everyone in the NFL should be begging to trade for him now.

The fact is... he's done nothing impressive. No matter how much you want to spin, when you look at the numbers and what he's actually done... nothing stands out. The RBs and OL obviously ran the offense. The Defense obviously ran the game. All Flacco had to do was not get a case of diahrhea in the middle of throwing a screen.

If Troy gave them the best chance to win, then he'd be starting. Do you think they'd hinder the team's growth by playing the worse of the two QBs? It's not like Troy is old.

If Troy is worthy of being an NFL starter, then he will get his chance. He's an ambitious guy, and a talented guy, so I see him doing what he needs to do to give himself that chance.

It's completely irrelevant to compare fans when the QBs in question aren't in the same situation at all. Cleveland fans were hardly on a high at the end of last season, given the way Anderson collapsed. I'll pass on childish insults. It only takes away from your credibility, not mine.

On Dilfer.. you compared a rookie who has looked average, much better than what anyone expected a D1-AA QB to look as a rookie in the NFL, to a guy at the end of his career, who was average (at best) his entire career. If you don't see what the problem is with that comparison, then I'm not sure I even want to discuss this subject with you.

I didn't realize the Ravens were stacked with talent on the offensive line and WR positions. They have an aging Derek Mason as their best WR. Who else? A couple average guys (couple is stretching it - Mark Clayton and Yamon Figurs, and a Todd Heap who has struggled to stay healthy and is a shadow of his former self), but nothing worthy of a "stacked with talent" label. Their offensive line is definitely solid with run blocking, but pass blocking has been suspect for a couple years. Flacco was sacked 32 times, bad enough for 25th in the league. Blame lies both on Flacco and the offensive line, but I'm having a hard time believing that the offense is stacked with talent.

I happen to think that the second half of his regular season was impressive. If you don't think so, I can't change your mind.

EDIT: I've said all that's on my mind, so don't expect any further responses from me.

 

[jwinslow]

I happen to think that the second half of his regular season was impressive. If you don't think so, I can't change your mind

It was solid, for a rookie. Impressive is Matt Ryan.

Flacco's second half of the season:

Yards: 185, 164, 183, 280, 134, 115, 149, 297 | Playoffs: 135, 161, 141
TDs: 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0 | 0, 1, 0
INTs: 0, 2, 0, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0 | 0, 0, 3

 

[23Skidoo]

If Troy gave them the best chance to win, then he'd be starting. Do you think they'd hinder the team's growth by playing the worse of the two QBs? It's not like Troy is old.

If Troy is worthy of being an NFL starter, then he will get his chance. He's an ambitious guy, and a talented guy, so I see him doing what he needs to do to give himself that chance.

For the second time, I never said Troy should be starting. I said he deserves a chance. You know, taking snaps and starting aren't the same thing.

It's completely irrelevant to compare fans when the QBs in question aren't in the same situation at all. Cleveland fans were hardly on a high at the end of last season, given the way Anderson collapsed. I'll pass on childish insults. It only takes away from your credibility, not mine.

I already told you it had nothing to do with the QBs. The comparison was about expectations, nothing else.
But keep on harping on that no matter what. I guess you really do need everything explained to you like a child.

On Dilfer.. you compared a rookie who has looked average, much better than what anyone expected a D1-AA QB to look as a rookie in the NFL, to a guy at the end of his career, who was average (at best) his entire career. If you don't see what the problem is with that comparison, then I'm not sure I even want to discuss this subject with you.

See, here you're playing the expectations game again. The fact is... no matter how much spin you want to put on it... he's looked nothing but dreadfully mediocre. Congrats he's done better than most DIAA QBs could even hope to do... but that doesn't mean a damn thing. It doesn't mean he's the real deal.

I didn't realize the Ravens were stacked with talent on the offensive line and WR positions. They have an aging Derek Mason as their best WR. Who else? A couple average guys (couple is stretching it - Mark Clayton and Yamon Figurs, and a Todd Heap who has struggled to stay healthy and is a shadow of his former self), but nothing worthy of a "stacked with talent" label. Their offensive line is definitely solid with run blocking, but pass blocking has been suspect for a couple years. Flacco was sacked 32 times, bad enough for 25th in the league. Blame lies both on Flacco and the offensive line, but I'm having a hard time believing that the offense is stacked with talent.

Did I mention WRs? I mentioned RBs. Please, once again... actually read what's been posted before blurting out with nonsense and putting words in my mouth.

I happen to think that the second half of his regular season was impressive. If you don't think so, I can't change your mind.

Yet you've failed to actually mention anything specific that was impressive. All you can say is that he's exceeded expectations of a DIAA rookie QB and the Ravens' record is impressive -- as if that wasn't up to the rest of the team. Poppycock.
If you actually find something specific that was impressive, say it already. I've been trying to bait it out of you for the past couple of posts... giving you ample opportunity to hit back on that. But it seems you can't.

Now whether you can't because you're not bright enough to actually read what somebody else writes with a clear mind, or if you can't because there isn't anything impressive to point out... well... I guess that'll just have to be a mystery.

 

[3074326]

I was more impressed with the change we saw in Flacco than the numbers themselves. You can probably find posts that I made earlier in this thread about Troy deserving to start over Flacco because Joe was looking awful. Then he suddenly stopped being awful, and started playing above-average ball for a rookie QB.

Agree with what you said about Ryan. That dude blew me away.

 

[3074326]

You've managed to make me have more on my mind. Impressive. Responses in the quote. What's with the insults, by the way? Completely unnecessary.

For the second time, I never said Troy should be starting. I said he deserves a chance. You know, taking snaps and starting aren't the same thing.

Read again. I basically said that Troy likely had a shot, and did not succeed, because teams want to win.

I already told you it had nothing to do with the QBs. The comparison was about expectations, nothing else.
But keep on harping on that no matter what. I guess you really do need everything explained to you like a child.

Umm, I wasn't comparing QBs, I was comparing the situation with the fans like you did initially.

See, here you're playing the expectations game again. The fact is... no matter how much spin you want to put on it... he's looked nothing but dreadfully mediocre. Congrats he's done better than most DIAA QBs could even hope to do... but that doesn't mean a damn thing. It doesn't mean he's the real deal.

Stop trying to make your opinions facts. It's incredibly arrogant and insulting. I think he's looked better than dreadfully mediocre, but you know, I've watched him play a few times. The comparison between Dilfer and Flacco is not valid. There's no spin there. It's not a valid comparison. The only similarity is that they're QBs who played for the Ravens. They're different QBs, one played for the organization at the end of his career and was not looked at as a savior, the other is being looked at as a franchise QB who will lead the Ravens to success. If they wanted him to be a Trent Dilfer, they would not have drafted him that high.

Did I mention WRs? I mentioned RBs. Please, once again... actually read what's been posted before blurting out with nonsense and putting words in my mouth.

I read what was posted. You said that the team was stacked with talent. I strongly disagreed and explained why. Where did I put words in your mouth?

Yet you've failed to actually mention anything specific that was impressive. All you can say is that he's exceeded expectations of a DIAA rookie QB and the Ravens' record is impressive -- as if that wasn't up to the rest of the team. Poppycock.
If you actually find something specific that was impressive, say it already. I've been trying to bait it out of you for the past couple of posts... giving you ample opportunity to hit back on that. But it seems you can't.

Now whether you can't because you're not bright enough to actually read what somebody else writes with a clear mind, or if you can't because there isn't anything impressive to point out... well... I guess that'll just have to be a mystery.

Again, your opinion is not a fact. What I find impressive is obviously not what you find impressive. I've already posted what I thought was impressive. You failed to mention the stats that I posted that I found impressive.

 

[Colvinnl]

The fact is... he's done nothing impressive. No matter how much you want to spin, when you look at the numbers and what he's actually done... nothing stands out.

Wow---that statement, compounded by the fact that you felt the need to put it in bold and italics tells me you have no credibility---again he is a rookie QB from a D-1AA school who led his team to the Conference Championship game! Maybe we should let the Ravens be the judge of that, since Ozzie Newsome is sort of a good judge of talent.