QB Cardale '12 Gauge' Jones (B1G Champion, National Champion)

[jlb1705]

As for Cardale running the ball - you can either leave him on the sideline or keep him involved so he pushes JT in practice in some sort of competition so JT will push himself more to get better at his game. And you never, ever, limit yourself on a potential package, option, especially given Cardale's size and potential as a weapon. The hand-wringing you are doing is very unwarranted.

The Collier thing is a silly thing to think about and is getting way ahead of ourselves. The larger point about Jones remains though.

You absolutely do limit yourself on potential packages. Practice reps are limited. Roles have just changed on short notice and the offense is in the hands of young, inexperienced players. Possibilities get scaled back, not expanded in those situations. To me the most important thing is making sure the starter and the backup are prepared to the fullest extent to run the full base offense rather than platooning and instituting wrinkles.

To me that's not being conservative or passive, it's just being practical. Even if we do end up seeing Cardale used in that kind of situation I'd be surprised if we see it in non-conference play. If he were to be installed as a wrinkle it would probably be later in the season or following a bye week. I think early in the season if and when we do see him it will be for full series to get him competitive reps running the full offense - not in special packages.

 

[Mike80]

The Collier thing is a silly thing to think about and is getting way ahead of ourselves. The larger point about Jones remains though.

You absolutely do limit yourself on potential packages. Practice reps are limited. Roles have just changed on short notice and the offense is in the hands of young, inexperienced players. Possibilities get scaled back, not expanded in those situations. To me the most important thing is making sure the starter and the backup are prepared to the fullest extent to run the full base offense rather than platooning and instituting wrinkles.

To me that's not being conservative or passive, it's just being practical. Even if we do end up seeing Cardale used in that kind of situation I'd be surprised if we see it in non-conference play. If he were to be installed as a wrinkle it would probably be later in the season or following a bye week. I think early in the season if and when we do see him it will be for full series to get him competitive reps running the full offense - not in special packages.

I mean I know that, but this isn't saying Cardale will get the entire playbook or half the 1st team reps or anything like that. I am saying that I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't packages in the offense already for a guy the size of Cardale as it is. I don't think that is going to change just because he's one step closer to the 1st team role.

 

[Mike80]

So you'd be as comfortable with Stephen Collier starting rather than Braxton Miller?

This went from silly to simply absurd. When has anyone suggested this?

I hope JT has enough separation that he's the proven starter. Because the adage tends to be true, if you have 2 QBs you don't have 1...

I don't think they would have publicly put him as Braxton's direct backup if there wasn't that separation.

 

[pnuts34]

Comparing completely unproven Jameis Winston (2013) to completely unproven J.T. Barrett (2014)? Not laughable in the least.

Comparing Heisman Trophy winner, national championship QB Jameis Winston to completely unproven J.T. Barrett? That is what you are trying to do, and yes, it is quite laughable.


Barrett hasn't shown anything, because he hasn't played. Just like Winston last year.

Comparing two redshirt freshmen with zero experience is not a "far off comparison."

And as far as "calming down", you are the one who made the argument that Ohio State can't be in the national championship hunt because their starting QB has no experience. I proved you wrong. Maybe you're the one who needs to "calm down" off of your argument.

Difference is, Winston worked with starters throughout his camp and off season. Barrett did not. Winston spent more time working with his skill players than Barrett has, since the team assumed that Miller would be back. Im not arguing that we can't be in the NC hunt, just our emphasis should be more on running the ball and shorter passes, limiting JTs numbers

 

[jlb1705]

I mean I know that, but this isn't saying Cardale will get the entire playbook or half the 1st team reps or anything like that. I am saying that I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't packages in the offense already for a guy the size of Cardale as it is. I don't think that is going to change just because he's one step closer to the 1st team role.

I don't think that package *was* in there already. Up until a couple days ago if this team was running the ball with the QB it was going to be Miller, regardless of how close to the goalline they were. I mean, the option to use Jones was available last season and it wasn't used or really even talked about.

 

[Mike80]

Difference is, Winston worked with starters throughout his camp and off season. Barrett did not. Winston spent more time working with his skill players than Barrett has, since the team assumed that Miller would be back. Im not arguing that we can't be in the NC hunt, just our emphasis should be more on running the ball and shorter passes, limiting JTs numbers

 

[Mike80]

I don't think that package *was* in there already. Up until a couple days ago if this team was running the ball with the QB it was going to be Miller, regardless of how close to the goalline they were. I mean, the option to use Jones was available last season and it wasn't used or really even talked about.

I think that gets into how different the offense looked with Braxton vs. Kenny G and how it was run. Cardale is bigger than Braxton, but the same plays could be run with Braxton. While I could see the subset of plays run for Barrett, I get the feeling that Cardale will be made familiar with them if he hasn't been already. Call it a gut feeling.

Hopefully we won't need to find out if UFM has such a subset and whatever Barrett is running is effective enough to get it in the endzone without it. As Oklahoma found out with Bell for instance - the odds of scoring eventually evened out between the special packages with Bell and the more normal offense with Knight. But as we saw last year, coaching staffs sometimes outsmart themselves.

EDIT to add: maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully. It's just that we saw the coaches get cute when it came to the play calling last year with a stud like Hyde in the backfield. I just think the possibility is there that it could happen especially now that the situation is somewhat in flux.

 

[Bucklion]

So you'd be as comfortable with Stephen Collier starting rather than Braxton Miller?
I hope JT has enough separation that he's the proven starter. Because the adage tends to be true, if you have 2 QBs you don't have 1...

Yeah that's exactly what I said

 

[MaxBuck]

... you are the one who made the argument that Ohio State can't be in the national championship hunt because their starting QB has no experience.

In my view, the Buckeyes absolutely remain in the national championship hunt. But I'm a lot less optimistic that they'll actually make the playoffs (much less win them) with JTB under center than I was with Brax at QB. I think that's a reasonable assessment of things, but I'm still looking forward to this season with great anticipation. And I think the likelihood of our winning a NC with Barrett at QB in some future year is greatly enhanced by his playing this season.

Patience is a virtue, as well as a comfort.

 

[pnuts34]

In my view, the Buckeyes absolutely remain in the national championship hunt. But I'm a lot less optimistic that they'll actually make the playoffs (much less win them) with JTB under center than I was with Brax at QB. I think that's a reasonable assessment of things, but I'm still looking forward to this season with great anticipation. And I think the likelihood of our winning a NC with Barrett at QB in some future year is greatly enhanced by his playing this season.

Patience is a virtue, as well as a comfort.

Exactly!

 

[C-busBuck]

Difference is, Winston worked with starters throughout his camp and off season. Barrett did not. Winston spent more time working with his skill players than Barrett has, since the team assumed that Miller would be back. Im not arguing that we can't be in the NC hunt, just our emphasis should be more on running the ball and shorter passes, limiting JTs numbers

My understanding is that Barrett and Jones DID spend a lot of time with the starters during both spring and preseason camp. All indications are that Miller had very limited reps period during camp and that Barrett and Cardale took up a large majority of the reps with the ones. I do believe that they will run often, but I do not worry that JT can pass the ball when called upon. The timing on his throws for the most part looked good. I also think Cardale looked more comfortable passing the ball this summer as well. I'm more concerned with how well the team's problems on defense have been corrected. They should still score a decent amount of points, but they gotta do a better job of limiting the other teams points as well as time of posession.

 

[RugbyBuck]

We can't NOT use Cardale. There will be situations where having an athletic 250 lb QB will be helpful. Platooning QBs would make no sense with Braxton. It makes a ton of sense with Braxton out. Urban's going to take advantage of the horses he has.

 

[Bill Lucas]

Let the season begin. Please.

 

[Onebuckfan]

Let the season begin. Please.

Before another Injury...lets see what we have...

 

[C-busBuck]

We can't NOT use Cardale. There will be situations where having an athletic 250 lb QB will be helpful. Platooning QBs would make no sense with Braxton. It makes a ton of sense with Braxton out. Urban's going to take advantage of the horses he has.

I certainly think Cardale could be used in a Teabowesque type of role on this team. His size could certainly be an asset in short yardage as well as goaline situations