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OL Justin Boren (Official Thread)

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BB73;1127959; said:
It seems to me there's a silly argument going on since HTM basically stated that Boren wuold have to (re-)earn his starting job like everybody else at TSUN, and folks are trying to say that's the same as him saying that Boren wouldn't start.

To me, "might" and "would" are two different words.

And it's the same with "shouldn't be surprised if he" and "believe" that he'll lose the job.

In both cases, he's stating the possibility but not stating that he believes it will occur.
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Every team has the policy that all starting positions are up for grabs, not just in spring practice, but throughout the season. So sure, it's theoretically possible that Boren was going to lose his starting job next season, just as it's theoretically possible that Alex Boone is going to lose his starting job next season. But while both are theoretically possible, neither is a plausible outcome, nor is Boren being relegated to backup a plausible explanation for why Boren defected, despite HTM's attempt to make it so when he described it as something that "should have come as no surprise". And I think it's fair for people here to assume that Boren's possibly losing his starting job only became plausible in HTM's mind after Boren announced his intention to leave, and that that belief serves the purpose of deflecting any blame for the situation away from the new coaching staff.

And as far as the claims that HTM is politicking this one, I think his pronouncements are a little bit akin to Howard Dean saying, "I'm not claiming the U.S. government was behind 9/11, but it's a possibility worth considering." Throw the absurd suggestion out there, but don't totally endorse it.
 
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zincfinger;1128160; said:
Every team has the policy that all starting positions are up for grabs, not just in spring practice, but throughout the season. So sure, it's theoretically possible that Boren was going to lose his starting job next season, just as it's theoretically possible that Alex Boone is going to lose his starting job next season. But while both are theoretically possible, neither is a plausible outcome, nor is Boren being relegated to backup a plausible explanation for why Boren defected, despite HTM's attempt to make it so when he described it as something that "should have come as no surprise". And I think it's fair for people here to assume that Boren's possibly losing his starting job only became plausible in HTM's mind after Boren announced his intention to leave, and that that belief serves the purpose of deflecting any blame for the situation away from the new coaching staff.

And as far as the claims that HTM is politicking this one, I think his pronouncements are a little bit akin to Howard Dean saying, "I'm not claiming the U.S. government was behind 9/11, but it's a possibility worth considering." Throw the absurd suggestion out there, but don't totally endorse it.
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Except that Howard Dean is a governmental insider who is in a position to know or hear directly from the horse's mouth what went on, whereas I'm just a dude, who hasn't even been to Ann Arbor in 2 and a half years, opinionating on a message board. Howard Dean essentially has his finger on the pulse of what's going on. (Or he better, considering what position he holds.) I do not.

But whatever. Dissect my words all you want for hidden meanings, you know best. I know what I meant, I've explained it, and I know who took my meaning and who didn't.
 
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sorry to oversimplify this, but this whole scenario is cut and dry.

Boren didn't like Rodriguez, Boren decided to leave the program. It's been rumored for months. Mario Manningham stated as such as the combine.

What's so hard about this?
 
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HailToMichigan;1128317; said:
Except that Howard Dean is a governmental insider who is in a position to know or hear directly from the horse's mouth what went on, whereas I'm just a dude, who hasn't even been to Ann Arbor in 2 and a half years, opinionating on a message board. Howard Dean essentially has his finger on the pulse of what's going on. (Or he better, considering what position he holds.) I do not.

But whatever. Dissect my words all you want for hidden meanings, you know best. I know what I meant, I've explained it, and I know who took my meaning and who didn't.
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There's no point in debating Howard Dean's reliability in suggesting federal complicity in 9/11. That was merely an analogy, and an aside. The point is, you're promoting as plausible, something which is pretty implausible, precisely because it impugns the motives of the former player and therefore protects the motives of the current coach. That's not a hidden meaning, it's a fairly obvious impetus for your politicking. And for what it's worth, I'm not particularly anti-Rodriguez on this, in part because I really don't know what happened. But you're clearly giving undue credence to the implausible (and totally unsupported) because it fits the conclusion you want to reach.
 
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For any and all Boren doubters.

Boren was the fourth Freshman OL to win a starting job in the history of UM football. The fourth.

Read that again - slowly.


He is not soft.

He was not going to lose his job - under any coach or any offensive scheme.
 
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zincfinger;1128160; said:
Every team has the policy that all starting positions are up for grabs, not just in spring practice, but throughout the season. So sure, it's theoretically possible that Boren was going to lose his starting job next season, just as it's theoretically possible that Alex Boone is going to lose his starting job next season. But while both are theoretically possible, neither is a plausible outcome, nor is Boren being relegated to backup a plausible explanation for why Boren defected, despite HTM's attempt to make it so when he described it as something that "should have come as no surprise". And I think it's fair for people here to assume that Boren's possibly losing his starting job only became plausible in HTM's mind after Boren announced his intention to leave, and that that belief serves the purpose of deflecting any blame for the situation away from the new coaching staff.

And as far as the claims that HTM is politicking this one, I think his pronouncements are a little bit akin to Howard Dean saying, "I'm not claiming the U.S. government was behind 9/11, but it's a possibility worth considering." Throw the absurd suggestion out there, but don't totally endorse it.
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Big difference in using Boone, who is returning to a team with the system and coaching staff in place, to compare to Boren, who does not have either of those things.

I see the point you were trying to make and all, but the comparison was a bit weak IMO.
 
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OSUBuckeye4Life;1128333; said:
Big difference in using Boone, who is returning to a team with the system and coaching staff in place, to compare to Boren, who does not have either of those things.

I see the point you were trying to make and all, but the comparison was a bit weak IMO.
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Obviously, no two situations are exactly the same. True, Boren had a new coach/system coming in. Also true, he had no remotely experienced competition whatsoever. Hell, throw out "experienced"; unlike Boone, he had virtually no raw-but-talented competition, or any meaningful competition of any sort. The real question, as far as this comparison goes, is do you think Boren was significantly more likely to lose his starting position, had he stuck with the team, than Boone is? In other words, was there any remotely realistic chance that Boren wasn't starting next year? I don't think so.
 
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NFBuck;1128364; said:
It doesn't fit the scUM fanbase's "pussy" argument...that's what.
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"pussy" or not, he was one of the only freshman to ever start on the offensive line at UM. What does that say about their program then?

I just don't get it. UM looks bad any way you slice it, and another program is getting a great prospect.

Plus Boren has just increased his NFL chances infinitely. The Rodriguez system does nothing to get you to the next level.
 
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"pussy" or not, he was one of the only freshman to ever start on the offensive line at UM. What does that say about their program then?
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Those days are long behind them now is the mindset.

I'm sure once he lands at a program and continues to excel, he will have "matured" and gained a better attitude towards hard work :roll2:
 
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zincfinger;1128363; said:
The real question, as far as this comparison goes, is do you think Boren was significantly more likely to lose his starting position, had he stuck with the team, than Boone is?
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Yes, to be honest. I think Boone was in no danger what-so-ever given his experience, no turnover on the coaching staff, etc. etc. I think Boren had a much tougher hill to climb in that regard.

With that said, I dont think Boren was going to lose his job.
 
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Where is the most likely place for boren to land. Some have said OSU which is a possibility. He considered them comming out of high school and not to mention he's from columbus. However ive heard that his dad wants both of his sons to play at the same school. Zach Boren is a D-1 level player but im not quite sure he is OSU caliber. Just what i've heard any thoughts? I do think our system fits him much more than richrod's spread offense.:oh::io:
 
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I posted this before...and discussed it in PMs. When we talk about cursing, we aren't talking minor stuff. Rich flips out...most of his assistants follow suit.

I laughed the first few times...then it became kind of annoying...then I thought it was tactless.

You can coach hard without humiliating people openly like that.
 
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