Ohio State's Freshman Class

[BayBuck]

Am I the only one that does not see this as a positive? I see Clev's list with all of those geographical locations and just see that Ohio kids are getting shut out.

Ohio is still listed 1st among states, as it surely is every single year. OSU is Ohio's flagship institution, but it's not just for Ohio residents; geographic diversity is definitely a positive.

 

[mross34]

Am I the only one that does not see this as a positive? I see Clev's list with all of those geographical locations and just see that Ohio kids are getting shut out.

Fine, the school is getting smarter. But if my Ohio kid is a B student with a 25 on the ACT he ain't getting in.

Frankly that pisses me off. There should be preference for qualified OHIO kids first, and then fill the classes with OOS students.

It's my tax $'s, and I think Ohioans should come first.

Ohio State is far more in-state than almost any top public school. When I was there, from about 2002-2007, it was about 87% in-state. By contrast, Virginia is about 67%. There are plenty of other fine academic learning institutions in Ohio, but as an alumni, I'm thrilled that my degree is getting more valuable by the year.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Ohio State is far more in-state than almost any top public school. When I was there, from about 2002-2007, it was about 87% in-state. By contrast, Virginia is about 67%. There are plenty of other fine academic learning institutions in Ohio, but as an alumni, I'm thrilled that my degree is getting more valuable by the year.

so was mine, then you got yours....

 

[Folanator]

Ohio is still listed 1st among states, as it surely is every single year. OSU is Ohio's flagship institution, but it's not just for Ohio residents; geographic diversity is definitely a positive.

Oh fack off. So what you're really sayin is that I need to breed better children.

I miss the good old days when all you needed was a check and a pulse.

 

[redbenn]

Well, apparently grades and test scores no longer matter , because they look for "Miami Men & Women." There's also a lot of angst and hand wringing at the beginning of the thread over someone with a 27 ACT who wanted to go to Ohio State (wait...she wanted to go to some place called A&M) but had to settle on Miami as her safety school.

MiamiHawkTalk.com :: View topic - Ohio St. vs. Miami admissions again

Later in the thread, they turn on one of their own, telling him to transfer, for daring to say that Ohio State's campus is not a ghetto.

Miami Men & Women?

And let's not lose sight of this complete tool! MiamiHawkTalk.com ::

I hope the precious little prick manages to let his future professors know that he considers the institution where they teach to be, "Cow College A&M."

But enough of that overgrown boarding school in Oxford. This thread is to celebrate Ohio State's achievement not the school that is being left in a cloud of Buckeye dust.

my roommate here is from cinci (was one of my roommate's at osu), he told me that his neighbor was instructed by his guidance counselor "that he better apply to miami, because there is no way he is getting into osu"

also another roommate's sister got into miami and not osu... times are a changin

 

[CleveBucks]

Am I the only one that does not see this as a positive? I see Clev's list with all of those geographical locations and just see that Ohio kids are getting shut out.

Fine, the school is getting smarter. But if my Ohio kid is a B student with a 25 on the ACT he ain't getting in.

Frankly that pisses me off. There should be preference for qualified OHIO kids first, and then fill the classes with OOS students.

It's my tax $'s, and I think Ohioans should come first.

It's still around 85% from Ohio.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Am I the only one that does not see this as a positive? I see Clev's list with all of those geographical locations and just see that Ohio kids are getting shut out.

Fine, the school is getting smarter. But if my Ohio kid is a B student with a 25 on the ACT he ain't getting in.

Frankly that [censored]es me off. There should be preference for qualified OHIO kids first, and then fill the classes with OOS students.

It's my tax $'s, and I think Ohioans should come first.

A few thoughts

1. Ohio State has a relatively low OOS component compared to other Big Ten schools--about 15-18% in recent classes. Illinois has the lowest at 11% but that's only because of the ridiculous amount of political pressure that the Chicago suburbs exert every time they try to raise it.
2. Your tax $, pay for less than 20% of Ohio State's operating expenses.
3. Given the state of Ohio's historically weak support for higher education and ridiculous funding model for the last 40 years of treating all schools the same, keep in mind that those OOS students' higher tuition helps subsidize the cost of Ohio State for Ohio kids. Lower the percentage of OOS students and you raise the tuition burden on in-state students. More OOS students = lower tuition for in-state students.
4. Ohio State is a national research university, as such geographic diversity is a good and necessary thing. I don't think they should go overboard and have a 40% OOS enrollment like another state school in Ohio, but 20-25 percent is a realistic number.
5. As for that B student with the 25 ACT, too bad. The Rhodes era gave a lot of Ohioans an unrealistic notion of what was required to attend a states' flagship university. The fact that 1987, OSU began repositioning itself in a manner that the other Big Ten schools did in the 60s is a good, necessary and long overdue policy. There are plenty of options for them to get into Ohio State such as branch campuses or attending another school for a year or two, proving themselves and transferring.
6. The experience at Ohio State in from 62-85, along with numerous studies across the country have always shown that letting students into an institution that is above their heads (and one whose faculty believes that they shouldn't be there) does nothing good for the student in question. In the 70s, Ohio State used to flunk out a quarter of their freshman classes to bring the student body in line with other Big Ten schools. Do you think admitting kids who couldn't compete was a good thing for them? Sure, they got to sit in Ohio Stadium for a season, then it was back to the fucking farm. Had Ohio had a rational, hierarchical public university system like California, those kids would have been channeled into institutions more in line with their abilities and, studies show, would have been far more likely to ultimately graduate.
7. Now I'm not saying that a kid who has a solid B avarage and a 25 on the ACT isn't going to do well if he gets in, but it's a simple matter of supply and demand. If you have 24K applications for 6K spots in the freshman class, you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Folanator]

A few thoughts

1. Ohio State has a relatively low OOS component compared to other Big Ten schools--about 15-18% in recent classes. Illinois has the lowest at 11% but that's only because of the ridiculous amount of political pressure that the Chicago suburbs exert every time they try to raise it.
2. Your tax $, pay for less than 20% of Ohio State's operating expenses.
3. Given the state of Ohio's historically weak support for higher education and ridiculous funding model for the last 40 years of treating all schools the same, keep in mind that those OOS students' higher tuition helps subsidize the cost of Ohio State for Ohio kids. Lower the percentage of OOS students and you raise the tuition burden on in-state students. More OOS students = lower tuition for in-state students.
4. Ohio State is a national research university, as such geographic diversity is a good and necessary thing. I don't think they should go overboard and have a 40% OOS enrollment like another state school in Ohio, but 20-25 percent is a realistic number.
5. As for that B student with the 25 ACT, too bad. The Rhodes era gave a lot of Ohioans an unrealistic notion of what was required to attend a states' flagship university. The fact that 1987, OSU began repositioning itself in a manner that the other Big Ten schools did in the 60s is a good, necessary and long overdue policy. There are plenty of options for them to get into Ohio State such as branch campuses or attending another school for a year or two, proving themselves and transferring.
6. The experience at Ohio State in from 62-85, along with numerous studies across the country have always shown that letting students into an institution that is above their heads (and one whose faculty believes that they shouldn't be there) does nothing good for the student in question. In the 70s, Ohio State used to flunk out a quarter of their freshman classes to bring the student body in line with other Big Ten schools. Do you think admitting kids who couldn't compete was a good thing for them? Sure, they got to sit in Ohio Stadium for a season, then it was back to the fucking farm. Had Ohio had a rational, hierarchical public university system like California, those kids would have been channeled into institutions more in line with their abilities and, studies show, would have been far more likely to ultimately graduate.
7. Now I'm not saying that a kid who has a solid B avarage and a 25 on the ACT isn't going to do well if he gets in, but it's a simple matter of supply and demand. If you have 24K applications for 6K spots in the freshman class, you have to draw the line somewhere.

Point taken.

I guess that I come from the old days where OSU was a catch all where Ohio kids could go with descent grades. There is nothing wrong with being a school for the general population, not just the elite. I guess I like OSU as a good school catering HS graduates in the middle of the bell curve. The normal kids go as far (if not further) in business after graduation anyway.
I realize that this is probably not possible. What are you going to do, hire enough bad teachers and not upgrade facilities just to me mediocre?

 

[jimotis4heisman]

A few thoughts



Now I'm not saying that a kid who has a solid B avarage and a 25 on the ACT isn't going to do well if he gets in, but it's a simple matter of supply and demand. If you have 24K applications for 6K spots in the freshman class, you have to draw the line somewhere.

my guess is with inflated grades these days most kids with 25 on their act even in "good" suburban schools are 3.6-3.8 type students. that is some peoples views that those kids should be shoe ins. personally i believe that rising tides raise all ships. the higher the standard is at osu the better off ohio u/uc etc can be. the reality is good, smart kids are flat out rejected, that sucks. but for those other institutions thats an oppurtunity. uc should be on the stick and they really could raise their standards, and actually become a "bcs" type school with not only a good football team but very good academics. i think uc is the "winner" in 20 years, just my hunch.

 

[redbenn]

my guess is with inflated grades these days most kids with 25 on their act even in "good" suburban schools are 3.6-3.8 type students. that is some peoples views that those kids should be shoe ins. personally i believe that rising tides raise all ships. the higher the standard is at osu the better off ohio u/uc etc can be. the reality is good, smart kids are flat out rejected, that sucks. but for those other institutions thats an oppurtunity. uc should be on the stick and they really could raise their standards, and actually become a "bcs" type school with not only a good football team but very good academics. i think uc is the "winner" in 20 years, just my hunch.

the schools don't look strictly at gpa, but more so at class rank; therefore 'inflated grades' are tossed out, because it is leveling the playing field for the way high schools hand out grades.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

There is nothing wrong with being a school for the general population, not just the elite.

You're right. There is nothing wrong with being a school for the general population. I just don't think that a Big Ten university--one that was specifically founded to be the state's flagship campus and written into law as such in 1906--should serve that role. The notion that it was, was a perversion of its mission that flowed from Jim Rhodes' personal philosophies combined with the presidents of a couple of other state campuses who saw that as their chance to cut big brother off at the knees.

As for being a campus for the elite, my feelings vary based on what you mean. If you mean the campus in Ohio for the best students, then I have no problem with Ohio State being the campus for the elite. If, on the other hand, "elite" takes on a socio-economic basis, then I agree with you. I don't want Ohio State becoming a haven for rich preppies. The state already provides that campus.

Seriously, I think the Ohio State administration has done a great job of preventing that. Despite current admissions standards, Ohio State is enrolling a lower percentage of students from 100K families than other selective public universities (27% to 38%) and a higher percentage of first generation college students than the overall national norm (22% to 15%). Additionally, it's made lists of one of the best campuses in America for minorities. Despite being the highest ranked, most selective campus that also has the state's only nationally prominent research infrastructure, it's tuition is only 4th or 5th among Ohio public campuses. So, I don't think that high admission standards are necessarily incompatible with access.

 

[Folanator]

You're right. There is nothing wrong with being a school for the general population. I just don't think that a Big Ten university--one that was specifically founded to be the state's flagship campus and written into law as such in 1906--should serve that role. The notion that it was, was a perversion of its mission that flowed from Jim Rhodes' personal philosophies combined with the presidents of a couple of other state campuses who saw that as their chance to cut big brother off at the knees.

As for being a campus for the elite, my feelings vary based on what you mean. If you mean the campus in Ohio for the best students, then I have no problem with Ohio State being the campus for the elite. If, on the other hand, "elite" takes on a socio-economic basis, then I agree with you. I don't want Ohio State becoming a haven for rich preppies. The state already provides that campus.

Seriously, I think the Ohio State administration has done a great job of preventing that. Despite current admissions standards, Ohio State is enrolling a lower percentage of students from 100K families than other selective public universities (27% to 38%) and a higher percentage of first generation college students than the overall national norm (22% to 15%). Additionally, it's made lists of one of the best campuses in America for minorities. Despite being the highest ranked, most selective campus that also has the state's only nationally prominent research infrastructure, it's tuition is only 4th or 5th among Ohio public campuses. So, I don't think that high admission standards are necessarily incompatible with access.

Great post. You sold me. Never mind my original rant.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

uc should be on the stick and they really could raise their standards, and actually become a "bcs" type school with not only a good football team but very good academics. i think uc is the "winner" in 20 years, just my hunch.

I agree with you and have stated that UC should have an elevated role in the system above that of an OU, Akron or Bowling Green. I don't think that they should be allowed to freely "compete" with Ohio State or challenge the throne. Ohio went down that path before with disastrous results not only for Ohio State but the reputation of the state's higher education system in general. I do, however, think that they should be the secondary research university in the system--the Va Tech to our UVA.

NE Ohio already has a private research infrastructure in Case and Cleveland Clinic. If SW Ohio is to have one, it will need to be UC that drives it.

As far as admissions go, they've already passed OU by at the upper end but their overall averages are still dragged down below OU. I'd look for overall admissions to UC to pass OU within 5 years.

 

[Folanator]

I agree with you and have stated that UC should have an elevated role in the system above that of an OU, Akron or Bowling Green. I don't think that they should be allowed to freely "compete" with Ohio State or challenge the throne. Ohio went down that path before with disastrous results not only for Ohio State but the reputation of the state's higher education system in general. I do, however, think that they should be the secondary research university in the system--the Va Tech to our UVA.

NE Ohio already has a private research infrastructure in Case and Cleveland Clinic. If SW Ohio is to have one, it will need to be UC that drives it.

As far as admissions go, they've already passed OU by at the upper end but their overall averages are still dragged down below OU. I'd look for overall admissions to UC to pass OU within 5 years.

Some of that is infrastucture. UC had done a nice job of upgrading campus along Vine and MLK much in the way that OSU did on High Street. UC was an absolute dump and was dangerous. Not so much any more. It will take a few years, but it will pay off.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I agree with you and have stated that UC should have an elevated role in the system above that of an OU, Akron or Bowling Green. I don't think that they should be allowed to freely "compete" with Ohio State or challenge the throne. Ohio went down that path before with disastrous results not only for Ohio State but the reputation of the state's higher education system in general. I do, however, think that they should be the secondary research university in the system--the Va Tech to our UVA.

NE Ohio already has a private research infrastructure in Case and Cleveland Clinic. If SW Ohio is to have one, it will need to be UC that drives it.

As far as admissions go, they've already passed OU by at the upper end but their overall averages are still dragged down below OU. I'd look for overall admissions to UC to pass OU within 5 years.

yup, though i think it could be ou with the businesses, tech, med etc of sw ohio and cincy that provides the best oppurtunity. not saying a rural school cant do it but if a good president got his hands on uc it could be a pretty dynamic school. i agree with your concept though that it shouldnt directly compete but at the sametime no reason they shouldnt have a top 100 type school with some programs. business could feed off of that (pg, 5/3rd, cincy insurance etc)