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Ohio State 69 Tennessee 74 (FINAL)

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I hope the young guys learned from their lackluster 1st half in East Lansing. If they play the hole game all out like they did the last 25 minutes against MSU then tOSU has a pretty good chance here (I think) They can't play scared. This game could be just what the doctor ordered. Loss at Purdue after leading, loss at MSU but spirited comeback, a win here would springboard them for the rest of the season.

Here's hoping they can get some shots to drop and can rebound and defend aggressively. This game could help in a lot more ways than one, if they win that gives the B10 a few props in case tOSU finishes lower than we hope, maybe helps get an extra B10 team into the tourney.
 
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Best Buckeye;1067968; said:
I kind of think that having Butler doing so much slows down the progress of the others because they lean on him rather than doing their own thing as a team.
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I don't understand. The only thing that Butler does it is what all point guards are supposed to do and that is to bring the ball up court and start the offense. If the other players don't make themselves available to him what is he supposed to do? I mean if you would be scoring points we would be in deep trouble. Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand your point.
 
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LitlBuck;1068449; said:
I don't understand. The only thing that Butler does it is what all point guards are supposed to do and that is to bring the ball up court and start the offense. If the other players don't make themselves available to him what is he supposed to do? I mean if you would be scoring points we would be in deep trouble. Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand your point.
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I agree here. Butler is the logical choice to get us going when we really need a bucket. Case in point, against MSU during that nasty run of emptiness in the first half, several guys (Hunter, Turner, Koufos) tried to make something happen and stop the bleeding and they looked terrible doing it! Threw up some shots that weren't even close. Butler on the other hand looks for his shot in the flow and takes shots under control. You need your senior leader to step up when things are getting out of hand. This is a young team and when things go bad, you have to count on Butler. I'm not saying it's the best thing. Obviously we need some other guys to grow up fast if we want to be a complete ball club. But right now, Butler is doing what he needs to be doing. And for what it's worth, I think he's a VERY solid basketball player.
 
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LitlBuck;1068449; said:
I don't understand. The only thing that Butler does it is what all point guards are supposed to do and that is to bring the ball up court and start the offense. If the other players don't make themselves available to him what is he supposed to do? I mean if you would be scoring points we would be in deep trouble. Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand your point.
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I believe what me and best buckeye are thinking, that even tho he is scoring, he needs to find other ways to come along with him or we won't go anywhere as a team...

Of course he can get them the ball and get us into the offense, but part of what made Mike Conley so great was his ability to create off the dribble and make the game that much easier for guys around him, to get them easy looks, to get them in the flow of the game and to just make the whole offense flow much better...

When Butler is out dribbling and trying to come off screens, he could penetrate and find an easier look for another guy instead of a 23 foot forced 3 pointer...

It is all parts of him being the QB of the team...The team will go as far as he will take us, but it involves him bringing the other guys along with him and not trying to take down a team by himself...

Does that make sense...
 
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You've gotta have confidence in your teammates, though, and I'm not sure Butler does at this point. Lord knows I don't have a lot of it at this point. Quote from Butler after the MSU game:

"I would say not just in that situation, but I need help from the beginning of the game all the way to the end," Butler said of the scoring load. "I need somebody to go with me. That's what I'm searching for right now and hopefully I'll find it."

 
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My summary on this team is that it is a slower developing version of the '05-'06 team - in terms of readiness and execution.

We can only hope that they also have a similar happy ending to the season. Who knows, maybe this weekend will be the game that turns the tide - I just don't see that happening.


Though I would love to be pleasantly surprised.
 
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crazybuckfan40;1068471; said:
When Butler is out dribbling and trying to come off screens, he could penetrate and find an easier look for another guy instead of a 23 foot forced 3 pointer...

It is all parts of him being the QB of the team...The team will go as far as he will take us, but it involves him bringing the other guys along with him and not trying to take down a team by himself...

Does that make sense...
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Yes it makes sense,but this is where Jamar is simply limited. Most of the time he's not going to go by you off the dribble like a Conley,or Anthony Crater. We saw something interesting in East Lansing when coach Matta moved Butler off the ball in favor of energetic P.J Hill. I'd like to see more of this.
 
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Most here know that I have always defended Butler, and I am not saying that he is doing anything wrong...

I just think with the team structure that we have right now that we are having trouble putting points on the board other than Butler...I just feel that while Butler is able to score at times, and he probably feels that if he doesn't score in tight situations when the game is starting to get out of hand or the other team is on a run that the game will get out of hand...What I am seeing from an outsiders perspective and that quote kinda puts in perspective is that he doesn't have the confidence in his teammates in situations like that and has the confidence in himself, and we have all seen the last 3 seasons when he can take a backseat to others and watch them do the scoring and not need to force things...

The thing is that his he needs to keep going to them or this team isn't going to go anywhere if we don't do it scoring as a team, and what is the difference between losing with Butler scoring alot and us losing and Butler working to get other guys involved and giving up some of his shots to try and get other the confidence they are missing to try and get us somewhere as a team...

Yes there are situations like down the stretch, when I want the ball in Butler's hands and want him to take the shot, but there are other times, like 3 on 1 breaks when he pulls up for a 3 or times when he takes a forced 3 instead of working the ball a little bit to try and get someone else a open look...

With all this in mind I think that Butler is the runner up for big ten player of the year behind only Gordan, so I am not saying he is playing bad, I am just saying that some is on his shoulders in terms of being the pg and bringing this team along to where we need to be...


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Now with all that said, I came to the thread to post my thoughts on Tennessee, from what I seeing tonight we could get run out of the gym there...Especially if we don't sure up the defensive boards, and cut down on the turnovers...Tennessee has great pressure D where they force other teams to turn the ball over and they will all hit the boards on offense high flying to get the boards, especially after they launch about 30 3's a game...

If we are able to slow the game down some and take care of the ball and get good looks, which will be available if we work the ball, and pump fake, ball fake, and just play within ourselves, and shoot the ball well and UT struggles a lil bit from behind the arc we have a solid chance, but they are not playing that great tonight and while Vandy is shooting the ball very well, UT is taking them out of their game and continues to look like they are going to run them out of the gym and I am not sure we are on par with Vandy in terms of being able to play with Tenn...
 
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LitlBuck;1068449; said:
I don't understand. The only thing that Butler does it is what all point guards are supposed to do and that is to bring the ball up court and start the offense. If the other players don't make themselves available to him what is he supposed to do? I mean if you would be scoring points we would be in deep trouble. Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand your point.
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No that is not all that Butler does. Butler is the team leader, as he should be and he is the go to guy even if self proclaimed, and even as it should be. Picture a team without him and now tell me who would be the team leader.
What would happen and what would be done by the others? Would they play better as a team? Would someone else be the go to guy? would someone make the attempt to be that leader.
What I am saying is that , possibly, the new guys are depending too much on Butler and in that manner retarding their own progress at the same time especially in playing as a team. Get in trouble go to Butler whether by passing the ball to him or taking a shot or making a drive. We all know that kids learn how to play at this or any other level by testing and trial of attempting to make plays, well I am saying that , possibly, they are not making those attempts and instead are leaning on Butler.

Now I am not saying that Butler is doing anything wrong because each game has to be handled differently and he puts forth the effort in whatever manner he feels is needed to win. He is a senior and plays like one. I am just saying that as a team the progress of the new starters may be being slowed due to their using him as their bail out when they get into a position they are not familiar with and maybe get excited over that position.
Cbf 40 and I are mainly saying the same thing
 
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Best Buckeye;1068753; said:
No that is not all that Butler does. Butler is the team leader, as he should be and he is the go to guy even if self proclaimed, and even as it should be. Picture a team without him and now tell me who would be the team leader.
What would happen and what would be done by the others? Would they play better as a team? Would someone else be the go to guy? would someone make the attempt to be that leader.
What I am saying is that , possibly, the new guys are depending too much on Butler and in that manner retarding their own progress at the same time especially in playing as a team. Get in trouble go to Butler whether by passing the ball to him or taking a shot or making a drive. We all know that kids learn how to play at this or any other level by testing and trial of attempting to make plays, well I am saying that , possibly, they are not making those attempts and instead are leaning on Butler.
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And not to put words in your mouth, but to add on that is where Butler needs to force them to not lean on him...

If any of you watch the Cavs at times I would like LBJ to be more like Jamar is being and I would like Jamar to be more like LBJ where he continues to pass out of forcing a shot that he could easily make, but tries to get his teammates involved in the game because he knows the team is only as good as his teammates help him make it be...
 
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LBJ? who's that? :biggrin:
Think back to the game where Butler had a DD but scored no points. Who scored most of the points in that game? The new guys did 3 -1 over the older ones. In that game the noob's were highly involved and reacted to their roles and performed as we have hoped they would ever since the first game.
 
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Best Buckeye;1068761; said:
LBJ? who's that? :biggrin:
Think back to the game where Butler had a DD but scored no points. Who scored most of the points in that game? The new guys did 3 -1 over the older ones. In that game the noob's were highly involved and reacted to their roles and performed as we have hoped they would ever since the first game.
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Great example...Now just imagine him getting around a triple double state wise...I understand the 10 rebounds won't happen a lot for him, but he could easily go double double or close to every night with points and assists, and I would put money on us in any game that I knew that Butler was going to have a double double...
 
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