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Game Thread Ohio State 3, Southern Cal 35 (Sept. 13)

like ive stated before, JT honstly coaches without any sense of urgency. We go down 14-3 then 21-3, and as usual, theres no digging deep into the playbook, trying out giving TP a full offensive series, nothing. We just stick to the same gameplan and don't seem to make any adjustments. We had a magical national championship season with a lot of down to the wire victories back in 02, but now, we just don't seem to have any come from behind game, especially against top competition. Its kind of like when we didn't go for 2 to tie it up against Ohio U. No worries, we still have this game, no need to tie it up right now. I for one would like the coach to have the mentality of, "ok, we scored, we are a superior team so we will be going for 2 because we believe we can tie the game up right now" as opposed to ALWAYS making the most conservative decision possible, even when we are LOSING. Remember, Ohio U was down by 5 with the ball late in the game, a TD would have put them on top. Common sense tells anyone that the 2 points is a no brainer in that situation, but Tress likes to keep to his conservative roots in every single situation, and lately he is lacking the ability to think outside the box and be innovative.
 
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Whatever observations one might have about the coaching staff need to be kept in perspective. JT is going nowhere. Anyone who knows the first thing about Gordon Gee knows that--barring a string of uncontrolled off-field issues for which I think Gee would make a change--JT has earned lifetime tenure at Ohio State.

Any talk about the coaching staff should start with this realization. It'll keep people from starting discussions that are counter-productive and meaningless.
 
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Blah.

Bummer.. but, what are you gonna do. Our defense wasn't lights out. Our line lost the battle. The refs, IMO, changed momentum very early.

Blah.

Just frustrating as we all know this team is better than they played..

In any event, :oh:
 
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I think part of it is a lack of killer instinct. This team does not have the will to dominate ( maybe the talent, but talent's not why they didn't dominate the Bobcats). This team has no swagger, no dominate will, no ... something that teams like USC and Florida and LSU have. Those teams are nasty and hungry to dominate. The Buckeyes aren't. They're content to execute their assignments not beat down their opponent. Not dominate. These Buckeyes aren't nasty at all. Not on defense. Not especially on offense.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;1260468; said:
I think part of it is a lack of killer instinct. This team does not have the will to dominate ( maybe the talent, but talent's not why they didn't dominate the Bobcats). This team has no swagger, no dominate will, no ... something that teams like USC and Florida and LSU have. Those teams are nasty and hungry to dominate. The Buckeyes aren't. They're content to execute their assignments not beat down their opponent. Not dominate. These Buckeyes aren't nasty at all. Not on defense. Not especially on offense.

+1
 
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Here are my morning after thoughts...

Quarterback Play
Let's start with Todd Boeckman. I don't feel like he gets rid of the ball as quick as he should. I felt like the o line gave him plenty of time to find some receivers or check it down, he just was not getting rid of the ball. He also made several poor decisions with the football as well. He has absolutely no mobility so when the pocket does break down, he's going nowhere. I also do not understand why we call QB draws when Boeckman is in because it is obviously not effective. Boeckman does not look like the experienced, seasoned QB that he should be. He has shown me asolutely no improvement in the first three games of this season from last season and in fact has actually looked like he may have regressed a bit. I know the USC defense is probably the best in the country, but that is really no excuse for playing that poorly, especially when I felt like he had time to make throws.

Now for Pryor. This kid is going to be a star. He's an excellent athlete and he can give defenses fits with his mobility. He made all of the easy throws that the coaches gave him and opened up the offense for the other running backs when he was in the game. I wish they would have given him more snaps than what they did. Given that USC has the best defense in the country, I thought he made the most of his time in and looked even better when you consider he is just a true freshman playing his first game on the road against one of the best teams in the country. He was able to effectively keep the USC defense off balance when he was in the game. However, his performance was obviously not without faults. His lack of experience certaliny showed in some situations. His passes didn't look very crisp and he definitely missed some wide open receivers. As the story goes with most young dual threat quarterbacks, at times he didn't go through his progression and just took off. The USC defense did a fairly good job of adjusting at half time once they realized he wasn't much of a passing threat, but Pryor was still able to make plays with his feet and made good decisions to pitch the ball on option plays. He's young, but I love what I've seen from this kid so far. He's going to be a great one once he puts on a little more muscle, works on his passing game, and gets more experience. From everything I've heard and seen, this kid is a competitior and wants to learn as much as he can so he can be the best he can be.

I think the Big Ten is going to be substantially more competitive than it was last year with Penn State, Wisconsin, and Illinois all fielding very good teams and I'm not sure that we can win those games with Boeckman at the helm. He is obviously more experienced than Pryor, but you couldn't really tell that over the first three weeks of the season. Boeckman simply has not looked good. Personally I feel like Pryor gives us the best chance to win in the Big Ten this season. He needs to get as much playing time as he can to continue to improve. If the coaches are going to make the change, there is no better time than now with the two games we have coming up against Troy and Minnesota.

Other Offensive Notes
Despite what I have read on this site in many posts, I don't feel like the offensive line was that big of a problem. They gave the QBs time to throw and opened up holes for the running backs. They did make a lot of very bonehead, costly peanlities but other than that I actually thought they played a good game. Needlessly to say, Beanie being out hurt us quite a bit. With the way the team played, I don't feel like we would have won the game if he were in, but I gaurantee it would have been a hell of a lot closer. Herron looked really good starting in his place though. I think he will fill in for Beanie nicely next year assuming Beanie declares for the NFL draft. He is a good downhill runner and has some speed as well. The run on our scoring drive when he turned around pushed the pile of USC players was very impressive. Saine had a decent game with the carries given to him. When he was in with Pryor he was able to get some yardage. The receivers continue to struggle to get open. We have a bunch of #2 receivers and no true #1. Small's performance is the only one of the bunch that stood out as being good. That guy has really turned it around this season. I would like to see Posey and Zoom get some playing time. Freshman receivers can be very effective, just look at Michael Crabtree at Texas Tech last year.

Special Teams
Trapasso had a noticibly off game. His punts were not as booming as they usually are. I felt like he was off last week too. Pettery also missed what should be a chip shot for him. He had problems last week against Ohio as well. I don't know what the problem is with these two, but I think it has to be mentally because we all know that these two can play much better than they have the last two weeks.

Defense
We didn't get the pressure on Sanchez that I expected to and when we did he was able to get rid of the football very quickly. I've got to hand it to him, he is an exceptional quarterback who did not like like he was starting only his 5th college game. He looked like four year starter to me. I think he is going to be a great QB at the next level. I expected Gable, not McKnight to give us problems. McKnight had a great game and he will give defenses a lot to account for this season with Sanchez as well. Lauranitus continues to disappear at times as he did in this game. Freeman and Wilson had good games. Wilson appeared to be almost getting to Sanchez at times. As I said, Sanchez does an excellent job of getting rid of the ball quickly. I have a feeling Wilson is going to have a monster year. Other than a couple of completely blow coverages, I felt like our defensive backs had a pretty decent game with Jenkins leading the way by leading the team in tackles. Overall I didn't feel like our defense played as poorly as it might seem. They had to defend a short field and deal with several turnovers as well. With they way our offense played, this gave could have been even uglier if not for some good stops by our D.

Other thoughts
I don't think the team seemed mentally prepared to play for this game and I think that was obvious with all of the mistakes that were made. I'm pretty disappointed with the lack of intensity the returning seniors have played with so far this season. I hope that they can get focused so they can try to win the Big Ten and earn Tressel's first trip to the Rose Bowl.

Regarding USC, that is a great football team. Could be one of the best that Pete Carrol has had at USC. He had his team ready to play and they played outstanding. The defense was relentless and the offense played mostly mistake free football. I thought their inexperience at some positons on offense would show, but the whole offense looked great. That defense is probably the best in the nation. I think the Pac 10 schedule looks pretty favorable for you guys this year since you play the toughest teams in the Pac 10 at home and the easier teams on the road. If USC can avoid the mental lapse that tends to happen at least once a year under Carrol, you guys will be in the national title game for sure. I look forward to the Buckeyes trying to get revenge next year at the Horseshoe.
 
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I believe part of the passing issue isnt TB's fault. We run such vanilla routes, I think I could read and cover them. We dont throw down field enough.

Still though, I dont believe Pryor needs to start. We have a better chance of winning with him in there. Talk about opening up the passing game, they have to worry about his running ability, and that will automatically create seperation down field for our WR's.
 
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I am among the least qualified football analysts on BP, but watching the game something occurred to me that also occurred to me while watching the LSU game last year. It appears to me that the Buckeyes - in general - do not believe in themselves. It looks to me like one of the major problems with the program is team psychology. And I think this because of the experience that I've had watching the Gators and the butt sniffers from Athens.

I went to UF in the mid to late 70s. During the 70s and early 80s we played our version of The Game (The World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party) fielding some very talented teams (so talented, Coach Pell got us on probation, but I digress) that should have won a game against the Poodles. But here is the deal: No matter what the situation, no matter how much we led by or how much we were favored, we KNEW we would lose to Georgia. Not only did the fans know it, the players knew it. If we were ahead by six late in the game, everyone was thinking "God No!...we will lose by one point" instead of thinking "we will put another six on their ass." Sure enough, after a defensive stop, while watching a mutt punt we'd be praying "don't drop it, don't drop it, don't -SHIT!" as the ball was fumbled and the mangy ones went on to score the winning TD.

Now, this was not one game. Or two games. Or five. EVERY DAMN YEAR we'd lose to those assholes, and they'd bark in our faces and tell us that there was no way they would ever lose to them.

Enter Spurrier. Say what you want about him, he dominated the Mutts. We killed them. Every year. They changed coaches. Then changed again. Then again. Then yet again. They all got whipped. One got so angry after hearing a post-cocktail party SOS quote that he had to be held back from looking for him. He was quoted as wanting just five minutes alone with Steve in an alley. We loved it, of course, as the Ole Ball Coach was so in their heads that they had no response. . They were the ones who made the stupid penalties. They were the ones who ended good drives with false starts and personal fouls. I made an on-line bet with a Mutt fan in 2002 for the Cocktail Party. Georgia was undefeated and looking to a MNC berth. UF had Zook, and was not a very good second half team, being constantly shut down in the second half while giving up game winning scores in a prevent defense mindset. I was offered a bet: for a year have my on-line sig say (fill in the blank) 2002 Cocktail Party Champion in large font and the winner's team colors.
It was an SEC board, so I took the bet. I did it because I knew the poodles had not beaten us in forever, that they would play tight, that they would think in the back of their mind "we've only beaten the Gators one game in thirteen years, if we lose it will be the end of the world." And we won. Some other team went on to play Miami that year. :biggrin:

So my rambling point is this: I see the same type of doubt in the eyes of your team. I saw what appeared to me to be a "Oh no! Not again" psychology when things started going bad in New Orleans. Erin Andrews said last night that she saw the offense looking listless and beaten well before the game was over (while the defense were still jacked and pumping their teammates up) Whether this is TB's lack of leadership or what, I am abso-damn-lutely familiar with a reality that says that a psychological mindset that has a deep fear of losing can paralyze a good team into making stupid penalties and poor execution. It is insidious, it is hard to diagnose, harder to prevent and impossible to cure. Well, not impossible, but difficult. The one cure is to have a beat down of that opponent. Better to beat that ass for several years in row.

And yes, I know things go in cycles. But it is more than that. It is - sometimes - a situation where the team, for all the outward displays of bravado and confidence - does not believe in itself. When they see the other team gash your D for a long run and think "we can't stop them." When the other team's DEs are blowing around your linemen and teeing off on the quarterback for another three and out, and they go back to the bench and sit there not looking at each other or talking. And then the next series they hold and false start because they think "I can't win the one on one battle by myself because the other guy is better than me"...whether it is truth or not. I have seen that. And when it happens it can happen even when there is no clear talent differential. ( Don't get me wrong, I think USC is deeper than y'all - they are scary talented)

The worst thing is, not only does it paralyze you, but it makes the other side think that they are supermen. And so - without the doubt in their minds - they are free to react and be aggressive. In a game where the hole is open for only a half second for a back to make his cut, or for a DB to bite on a juke move on a route, it can be the difference.

I may be wrong as hell, but I got the clear impression that psychologically the Bucks were more "Shit - here it comes, another beating", than "F*** You, you got lucky, and I'm about to mess you up!"

Psychology is the difference is winning and losing, when elite athletes compete. That is why the elite athletes in every sport retain sports psychologists to give them the edge in high level competition. I may be wrong, but I think you have lost that battle. I think that the last several years of doubting - the constant ESPN "The Big-10 is no good" - is not just an annoyance, but something that has to an extent been internalized.

I may be totally full of crap. And I have to admit that losing to what may be the BCS Champion in football may not turn out to be anything but losing to three really good teams three years in a row. January 2007 to today is not that long a time, and so my UF-UGA comparison is just or more likely to be full of crap than some expert. But because of my experience watching the UF-Mutt games, and see...knowing..how psychology and psychology alone has affected the series, coupled with the way the last two Big OOC games have gone (the string of unanswered points after a lead), I have to wonder. And I hope I am wrong. I hope so because it is far easier to fix blocking schemes than to fix psyches.

So I am not trying to be insulting to the team at all, and certainly not kicking you when down. I am just putting out a possible reason for the last two losses that match what I have seen in my lifetime of watching football, where a talented team with a good coach suddenly looks like an undisciplined doppleganger for no explainable reason. I think that they may have bought into the "not good enough" myth enough so that when things go bad they try too hard, question themselves, and lose the intangibles that make up a winning program. Swagger. Confidence. Whatever. It seems like it has been lost since LSU. (Not Glendale, for that was thought to be an aberation.) I have no idea how to get it back, save some serious ass whippings on some OOC elite teams.

Tough times ahead. Just like when I sat in the stands in a 44-0 defeat of my Gators in Jacksonville yelling at game's end "It's Great - to be - a Florida Gator", I know it is still great to be a Buckeye. It games were all easy to win, winning them would not be worth much.
 
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FWBuckeye;1260483; said:
Here are my morning after thoughts...

...Despite what I have read on this site in many posts, I don't feel like the offensive line was that big of a problem. They gave the QBs time to throw and opened up holes for the running backs.
I think you are on the wrong thread. This one deals with last night's tOSU-USC game.
 
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Gatorubet;1260502; said:
I am among the least qualified football analysts on BP, but watching the game something occurred to me that also occurred to me while watching the LSU game last year. It appears to me that the Buckeyes - in general - do not believe in themselves. It looks to me like one of the major problems with the program is team psychology. And I think this because of the experience that I've had watching the Gators and the butt sniffers from Athens.

I went to UF in the mid to late 70s. During the 70s and early 80s we played our version of The Game (The World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party) fielding some very talented teams (so talented, Coach Pell got us on probation, but I digress) that should have won a game against the Poodles. But here is the deal: No matter what the situation, no matter how much we led by or how much we were favored, we KNEW we would lose to Georgia. Not only did the fans know it, the players knew it. If we were ahead by six late in the game, everyone was thinking "God No!...we will lose by one point" instead of thinking "we will put another six on their ass." Sure enough, after a defensive stop, while watching a mutt punt we'd be praying "don't drop it, don't drop it, don't -SHIT!" as the ball was fumbled and the mangy ones went on to score the winning TD.

Now, this was not one game. Or two games. Or five. EVERY DAMN YEAR we'd lose to those assholes, and they'd bark in our faces and tell us that there was no way they would ever lose to them.

Enter Spurrier. Say what you want about him, he dominated the Mutts. We killed them. Every year. They changed coaches. Then changed again. Then again. Then yet again. They all got whipped. One got so angry after hearing a post-cocktail party SOS quote that he had to be held back from looking for him. He was quoted as wanting just five minutes alone with Steve in an alley. We loved it, of course, as the Ole Ball Coach was so in their heads that they had no response. . They were the ones who made the stupid penalties. They were the ones who ended good drives with false starts and personal fouls. I made an on-line bet with a Mutt fan in 2002 for the Cocktail Party. Georgia was undefeated and looking to a MNC berth. UF had Zook, and was not a very good second half team, being constantly shut down in the second half while giving up game winning scores in a prevent defense mindset. I was offered a bet: for a year have my on-line sig say (fill in the blank) 2002 Cocktail Party Champion in large font and the winner's team colors.
It was an SEC board, so I took the bet. I did it because I knew the poodles had not beaten us in forever, that they would play tight, that they would think in the back of their mind "we've only beaten the Gators one game in thirteen years, if we lose it will be the end of the world." And we won. Some other team went on to play Miami that year. :biggrin:

So my rambling point is this: I see the same type of doubt in the eyes of your team. I saw what appeared to me to be a "Oh no! Not again" psychology when things started going bad in New Orleans. Erin Andrews said last night that she saw the offense looking listless and beaten well before the game was over (while the defense were still jacked and pumping their teammates up) Whether this is TB's lack of leadership or what, I am abso-damn-lutely familiar with a reality that says that a psychological mindset that has a deep fear of losing can paralyze a good team into making stupid penalties and poor execution. It is insidious, it is hard to diagnose, harder to prevent and impossible to cure. Well, not impossible, but difficult. The one cure is to have a beat down of that opponent. Better to beat that ass for several years in row.

And yes, I know things go in cycles. But it is more than that. It is - sometimes - a situation where the team, for all the outward displays of bravado and confidence - does not believe in itself. When they see the other team gash your D for a long run and think "we can't stop them." When the other team's DEs are blowing around your linemen and teeing off on the quarterback for another three and out, and they go back to the bench and sit there not looking at each other or talking. And then the next series they hold and false start because they think "I can't win the one on one battle by myself because the other guy is better than me"...whether it is truth or not. I have seen that. And when it happens it can happen even when there is no clear talent differential. ( Don't get me wrong, I think USC is deeper than y'all - they are scary talented)

The worst thing is, not only does it paralyze you, but it makes the other side think that they are supermen. And so - without the doubt in their minds - they are free to react and be aggressive. In a game where the hole is open for only a half second for a back to make his cut, or for a DB to bite on a juke move on a route, it can be the difference.

I may be wrong as hell, but I got the clear impression that psychologically the Bucks were more "Shit - here it comes, another beating", than "F*** You, you got lucky, and I'm about to mess you up!"

Psychology is the difference is winning and losing, when elite athletes compete. That is why the elite athletes in every sport retain sports psychologists to give them the edge in high level competition. I may be wrong, but I think you have lost that battle. I think that the last several years of doubting - the constant ESPN "The Big-10 is no good" - is not just an annoyance, but something that has to an extent been internalized.

I may be totally full of crap. And I have to admit that losing to what may be the BCS Champion in football may not turn out to be anything but losing to three really good teams three years in a row. January 2007 to today is not that long a time, and so my UF-UGA comparison is just or more likely to be full of crap than some expert. But because of my experience watching the UF-Mutt games, and see...knowing..how psychology and psychology alone has affected the series, coupled with the way the last two Big OOC games have gone (the string of unanswered points after a lead), I have to wonder. And I hope I am wrong. I hope so because it is far easier to fix blocking schemes than to fix psyches.

So I am not trying to be insulting to the team at all, and certainly not kicking you when down. I am just putting out a possible reason for the last two losses that match what I have seen in my lifetime of watching football, where a talented team with a good coach suddenly looks like an undisciplined doppleganger for no explainable reason. I think that they may have bought into the "not good enough" myth enough so that when things go bad they try too hard, question themselves, and lose the intangibles that make up a winning program. Swagger. Confidence. Whatever. It seems like it has been lost since LSU. (Not Glendale, for that was thought to be an aberation.) I have no idea how to get it back, save some serious ass whippings on some OOC elite teams.

Tough times ahead. Just like when I sat in the stands in a 44-0 defeat of my Gators in Jacksonville yelling at game's end "It's Great - to be - a Florida Gator", I know it is still great to be a Buckeye. It games were all easy to win, winning them would not be worth much.

His name was John Cooper. 2-10-1. We know plenty about that psychology.
 
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The thing that i think lead to us losing the game is our starting qb dosnt have the IT factor. To me he just seems like an average qb who can run the offence. Not someone when the going gets tough can make something happen. I say we let TP do his thang now:osu::osu::tongue2:
 
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OregonBuckeye;1260012; said:
3 but they were a top 5 team until McCoy suffered a concussion at the beginning of the KSU game. Don't piss on that win. It was a great one.

I came across this quote, and just wanted to say thank you OB. People don't realize if Colt McCoy doesn't get a concussion (and hurt his shoulder as well I believe) on a qb sneak to put UT up 7-0 on KSU, we're probably playing Texas in a rematch for the 'ship that year.
 
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Gatorubet;1260502; said:
I am among the least qualified football analysts on BP, but blah bla blah....

Sorry I didn't want to quote your entire post but I think that is a fair assesment. As I posted on another thread, when the camera showed the faces of the USC players and coaches shortly after the half, they had that warrior look that said "I'm so Pi**ed but focussed at the same time.

The look on our most of our players faces was "what the heck is going on here". Heacock looked dazed and confused at times. Maybe it was just a bad camera angle.

In contrast, during our drive in the first quater while rotating QB's and settling for 3 was just the opposite. USC was confused and our players looked confident. It amazes me how we could not continue to carry that confidence throughout the game.

It seems that the little things all added up quick and steam rolled out of control for our team. first a flag here and there, settle for 3, called back touchdown, missed fieldgoal, ... what the heck is going on here stay focused stay focused blah blah blah.

The tempo changed when the flags started flying and our confidence swayed. When was the last time this team was able to come back from being down more than 10 points?
 
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