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Notre Dame 0, Michigan 38 (Final)

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Jax, you should root for a sloppy, humor filled game like I do. A game where it's clear each team is trying its hardest to ensure the other team wins. Blown coverages... stupid coaching decisions.... fumbles... picks.... people running the wrong direction.... poor play calling... You'd be surprised at how often these criteria become met.
 
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ESPN - Hooley: Carr's loyalty the hallmark of his career - College Football

Carr handling Michigan's stuggles in stride

By Bruce Hooley
Special to ESPN.com






Updated: September 13, 2007, 1:51 AM ET




The chorus of critics has been so busy blaming him and beating the pulpit for his resignation that it hasn't bothered to notice that the guy it wants out as Michigan's football coach already appears to be gone.
AP Photo/Tony Ding
Lloyd Carr has become the comeback king in the wake of Michigan's struggles on the field.



Oh, Lloyd Carr will still be on the sidelines Saturday in Ann Arbor when the Wolverines play host to Notre Dame on Saturday (ABC, 3:30 p.m. ET) in a matchup of proud and storied programs, which are both 0-2 simultaneously for the first time in history.
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Tell that to the folks who are pulling for Notre Dame this week. Without Michigan's record there is no "tradition" or "The Game." You could end up with the "Old Oaken Bucket," and I've no doubt as to how hard that game is contested, but few outside of Hoosierland know anything about it.

It does take TWO good dancers to tango.
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I pulled this from the BTN thread as I don't want to sidetrack the discussion there.

I still don't understand this reasoning by some fans. How does scUM losing to ND this year affect the "tradition" or "The Game"? Again we are only talking one year here and ultimately, we all know scUM will be back.

As for this year, I could care less what the records are going into the third week of November, it will still be THE GAME and I will get as much satisfaction beating the weasels irregardless. Even if scUM entered the game at 0-11 this year and we hammered them by a 50 point beat down, I will get just as much satisfaction with the win as I did with last year's (proabably more). As for what others outside the rivalry think, who cares??? The opinion of outsides has nothing to do with why I hate scUM and why I want to see Ohio State humiliate them ever year.

Sometimes I wonder about the people who worry about the status of the rivalry. It is almost as if you are a bigger fan of it than you are Ohio State...or maybe better put, you hate scUM because of the rivalry, rather than seeing scUM as the rival because you hate them. Seriously, say Tressel continues his dominance against scUM and we go on a 10 game win streak against them. Would you want scUM to win one simply because such dominance by us would jeapordize and detract from the rivalry?
 
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Beating a good UM team, especially when dashing the b10/NC hopes at the same time, is much more satisfying than beating one of the most embarrassing UM teams in half a century (assuming they lose to ND, which was the hypothetical you were discussing). Sure a win is a win, but I imagine that UM fans enjoyed ruining OSU's title hopes in the mid90's more than beating down a reeling cooper program in the late 90's.
 
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jwinslow;928242; said:
Beating a good UM team, especially when dashing the b10/NC hopes at the same time, is much more satisfying than beating one of the most embarrassing UM teams in half a century (assuming they lose to ND, which was the hypothetical you were discussing). Sure a win is a win, but I imagine that UM fans enjoyed ruining OSU's title hopes in the mid90's more than beating down a reeling cooper program in the late 90's.
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Maybe I take too large of perspective on things, but I will only care about that until we are equal or surpass scUM in our head-to-head record and on the all-time wins list. Until then, a win against scUM is a win against scUM in my book.
 
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this is a fun debate and quite a few great posts along the way (Cinci, grad, dryden).
It's tough to choose when the two most hated rivals play each other.

Here's my take:
I actually respect the scUM football program. That doesn't mean that I don't hate to lose to them more than any other team. But I sure don't respect their fans - especially the bandwagon fans who reside in Ohio (and there are plenty in SW Ohio too, not just central and northern Ohio). It's alos satisfying for scUM to have a really bad season every four years or so, but I wouldn't want them to make a habit of it, for the same reasons as Cincibuck.

Notre Dame, because of their uber-arrogant fans (who can only be occassionally topped by scUM or PSU fans) and the brownnosed media, gets no respect from me whatsoever.

Therefore I always root for them to lose, no matter who they are playing (except maybe Miami, FL).

If you're wishing for another scUM meltdown, you may be in for a dissappointment. You can never underestimate the ability of a CW-led ND team to make the opposition look good.
Hell, you might even be reading on the scUM boards on Saturday night how Mallett should be given the starting job over Henne, no matter what Henne's injury status - simply because ND will make him look like he's playing against a HS team again.

So I say I would much rather see ND start 1-7 than scUM. Even at the risk of scUM getting thier act together enough to be a serious threat for the B10 title and the 3rd Sat in Nov. (which I expect will happen, too).

I also feel confident that this will be LLLLLoyd's last year, and hopefully English goes with him. Not that English can coach worth a damn, but he's a great recruiter. ND will have to live with ol' Charlie for a while, because of the stupid contract extension they gave him. Look for years of no defense and sporadic offense from the Domers - and no loss of arrogance from their football intellectually-challenged fans. Maybe they should all watch some episodes of "My Name's Earl". Karma can be a bitch.
 
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Think bragging rights here, the more games scUM loses, the closer the Bucks get to #1 in the all-time wins. Plus, you can still call it a successful season if you trample them in a season, no? :wink2:

As far as the game itself, if ND's O-line falls in line and they don't commit the turnovers they had last year, I think the offense will actually produce. The O-line was a big problem in the game last year, and it led to poor protection all season and no running game. The ND/UM game has gone almost exactly 50/50 over the last decade, with ND having the edge, as oppose to ND's pretty horrible record against MSU.
 
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jwinslow;928242; said:
Beating a good UM team, especially when dashing the b10/NC hopes at the same time, is much more satisfying than beating one of the most embarrassing UM teams in half a century (assuming they lose to ND, which was the hypothetical you were discussing). Sure a win is a win, but I imagine that UM fans enjoyed ruining OSU's title hopes in the mid90's more than beating down a reeling cooper program in the late 90's.
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Absolutely, and that's how it ends up most of the time. Still though, watching them stumble through a humiliating season every now and then is nice too....especially when they have an asshole RB who can't keep his mouth shut and were supposed to compete for a NC.
 
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Here is my take, fuck NoD. They are the biggest detriment to the big10 that exists, a national program in our backyard that steals money and recruits from us without sharing bowl money, TV revenue, or conference prestige.... Fuck NoD...

That said, I am well aware that who i root for has NO bearing on who actually wins a football game (despite those occasional times im screaming in the stands and im sure i made that lineman move early :wink: )

So yes, revel in michigans misery... revel in NoD's misery... i want NoD to lose, more than i want scUM to lose.. but I will take this oppurtunity to rub EVERY michigan fans nose in this mess, point, and laugh.. because talking shit to michigan and wishing them harm, doesnt change how much they still suck...

In the mean time just pull for whatever team benefits the buckeyes most... example... cal vs tennesee... Ut steals our recruits, cal steals USCs recruits... root for call (plus FUCK the sec) that is all... Jimmy Claussen is a homo.

:oh:
 
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buckeyegrad;928238; said:
I still don't understand this reasoning by some fans. How does scUM losing to ND this year affect the "tradition" or "The Game"? Again we are only talking one year here and ultimately, we all know scUM will be back.
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Exactly.

Alabama/Auburn isn't less important when they're both playing with only 14 scholarship players because they're both on probation.

Oklahoma/Nebraska isn't less important because the black shirts are on sabbatical and the game isn't televised every seventh year when Oklahoma is barred from TV broadcasts due to NCAA sanctions.

Miami, Fla./Florida St isn't less important when Larry Coker matches wits with Jeff Bowden.

Army/Navy isn't less important even though the teams haven't been simultaneously competitive since my father (RIP) was in high school.

One bad year doesn't change the best rivalry in all of sports. Was The Game any less meaningful when we went into it 6-4 in either 2001 or 2004?

Hell, no.
 
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Alabama/Auburn isn't less important when they're both playing with only 14 scholarship players because they're both on probation.

Oklahoma/Nebraska isn't less important because the black shirts are on sabbatical and the game isn't televised every seventh year when Oklahoma is barred from TV broadcasts due to NCAA sanctions.

Miami, Fla./Florida St isn't less important when Larry Coker matches wits with Jeff Bowden.

Army/Navy isn't less important even though the teams haven't been simultaneously competitive since my father (RIP) was in high school.

One bad year doesn't change the best rivalry in all of sports. Was The Game any less meaningful when we went into it 6-4 in either 2001 or 2004?

Hell, no.
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I beg to disagree. Those games ARE lessened when one team is in the crapper and a victory over a team in the crapper doesn't mean as much. Michigan's greatest win was over the 1969 Buckeyes because it was The Game and because it cost us so much.

I was so looking forward to beating Michigan in AA this year because I expected them to be making a run at the NC.

So I agree that those rivalries are huge regardless of records, but huge comes in different sizes (just ask the lady that takes out my pants).

All that said, part of the joy of beating Michigan is making them feel pain. If we can experience that joy without even playing them all the better.

On the other hand -

My favorite episode of Alfred Hitchock presents when I was a kid was about a woman who squealed on her gangster boyfriend and got him killed. The gangster's brother tracked her down and had a gun to her head. She told him to go ahead and shoot. Her life was crap and she wanted to die.

He took pity. Got her out of the gutter. Bought her nice things. Even married her.

About a year later he asks her is she is happy. She says yes. Happier than she has ever been in her life.

He says good. Pulls out his gun and shoots her.

I want Michigan at 9-2 thumping their chests and all set to print Big Ten Championship tees.
 
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