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Next Year

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Neither could Ozzie Newsome.
My point is he could have been used situationally to match up v a LB on passing downs.
Let’s face it for a good chunk of the year because of his injuries Stover was a liability blocking.
Especially on those bubble screens.
Gee may have been better executing this blocks.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Neither could Ozzie Newsome.
My point is he could have been used situationally to match up v a LB on passing downs.
Let’s face it for a good chunk of the year because of his injuries Stover was a liability blocking.
Especially on those bubble screens.
Gee may have been better executing this blocks.
Click to expand...

But Gee was never anything close to a receiving threat and not for a lack of opportunity. He saw the field a lot.

If you can't/won't block then you pretty much have to be Ozzy Newsome.

Gee was neither. His biggest career moment was the headbutt.
 
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Jax - did he really have much of an opportunity? Not doubting you just don’t recall it other than mop up duty.

My point is that in this free love transfer portal era it would behoove us to show more players a path to a meaningful role.

With our talent level we are ripe to lose good players who could help us especially in the future but will move on because they have no role and limited prospects.

It also would benefit us in the current tense.
There is no logical reason that Marv and EE should play 100% of the snaps. They and the team would be better if they were fresher.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Jax - did he really have much of an opportunity? Not doubting you just don’t recall it other than mop up duty.

My point is that in this free love transfer portal era it would behoove us to show more players a path to a meaningful role.

With our talent level we are ripe to lose good players who could help us especially in the future but will move on because they have no role and limited prospects.

It also would benefit us in the current tense.
There is no logical reason that Marv and EE should play 100% of the snaps. They and the team would be better if they were fresher.
Click to expand...

Have to look at snap counts I guess but I remember seeing him a lot.

Agree on developing depth 100%
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Jax - did he really have much of an opportunity? Not doubting you just don’t recall it other than mop up duty.

My point is that in this free love transfer portal era it would behoove us to show more players a path to a meaningful role.

With our talent level we are ripe to lose good players who could help us especially in the future but will move on because they have no role and limited prospects.

It also would benefit us in the current tense.
There is no logical reason that Marv and EE should play 100% of the snaps. They and the team would be better if they were fresher.
Click to expand...
It doesn't look like he played a whole lot, but like has been stated, you're not going to play TE at OSU if you can't block. And if you can't block at TE, you better be next coming of Newsome/Winslow/Sharpe, and Scott Jr. ain't that. The switch in positions seems to have set him back, and I remember when he initially made the move, even his dad said that this switch would take years to learn. He's been a primary WR his whole career, used to getting the ball thrown his way and being the focal point of the offense. To now he needs to learn to be a role player that blocks players almost 20-30lbs heavier than him. That's a lot for a player who I'm sure has never had to hold a solid block his whole life. If TEs are all healthy, Scott may be 3rd at best(behind Stover and Royer) next year, and may seriously fall lower if some of the big younger TEs like Christian and Hart(both 6'5' 245lbs) get their catching on par with their blocking.

If the young WRs aren't ready, they're not ready. Should Hartline just play guys to keep them happy, even if he doesn't think that they're ready to play? If that causes someone to leave, then so be it
 
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"If the young WRs aren't ready, they're not ready. Should Hartline just play guys to keep them happy, even if he doesn't think that they're ready to play? If that causes someone to leave, then so be it"

If he can't get one of a handful of highly rated young wr's ready then there is something wrong with his evaluation or coaching. It's his job to get them ready. Frankly getting a young WR "ready" should be the easiest position on the field to do so. When I say ready I mean for a handful of snaps.
There isn't an NFL team or NCAA team that plays WR's literally 100% of the snaps until the game is out of hand.
Your missing the point it would be good for the starters, the team, and the morale of the younger players.
You think Marv and EE are selling out blocking in the 4th quarter after they played every snap and just run a post?
You don't think they would be even more effective if they could catch a few plays of rest.
You don't think it should be a reasonable expectation that hartline should have a 4th wr "ready" to spot spell starters for 5 snaps a game.
Hartline is going to have a real issue going forward if he persists and only playing 3.
With the portal if you aren't in the top 3 or don't see being in the top 3 then the portal becomes attractive.

And on Scott I wasn't suggesting he should be an every down TE.
Just have some packages for him in passing situations.
We proved all year there were only 3 WR's capable of seeing the field.
There were certainly situations where a pass catching TE could be deployed.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
"If the young WRs aren't ready, they're not ready. Should Hartline just play guys to keep them happy, even if he doesn't think that they're ready to play? If that causes someone to leave, then so be it"

If he can't get one of a handful of highly rated young wr's ready then there is something wrong with his evaluation or coaching. It's his job to get them ready. Frankly getting a young WR "ready" should be the easiest position on the field to do so. When I say ready I mean for a handful of snaps.
There isn't an NFL team or NCAA team that plays WR's literally 100% of the snaps until the game is out of hand.
Your missing the point it would be good for the starters, the team, and the morale of the younger players.
You think Marv and EE are selling out blocking in the 4th quarter after they played every snap and just run a post?
You don't think they would be even more effective if they could catch a few plays of rest.
You don't think it should be a reasonable expectation that hartline should have a 4th wr "ready" to spot spell starters for 5 snaps a game.
Hartline is going to have a real issue going forward if he persists and only playing 3.
With the portal if you aren't in the top 3 or don't see being in the top 3 then the portal becomes attractive.

And on Scott I wasn't suggesting he should be an every down TE.
Just have some packages for him in passing situations.
We proved all year there were only 3 WR's capable of seeing the field.
There were certainly situations where a pass catching TE could be deployed.
Click to expand...

I'm in agreement with you, on that the young WRs should've been ready. But there's only so much Hartline can do. It's up to the player to put in extra work, its up to the player to have his grades in order, etc. There's a reason why they didn't play. And at the start of the season, OSU planned on JSN being a major part of the WR rotation. A starting trio of MHjr, JSN and EE was the dream, with Fleming mixed in to give them 4 WRs being "ready". When JSN went down, that threw a monkey wrench in the plan, but still, Hartline found X Johnson to be the 4th WR, and even used Ballard as a 5th WR at times. So OSU did play 5 WRs this season, it's just that they didn't play any of the freshman WRs.

And using Scott on solely passing downs, takes away any anonymity that the offense has in what it wants to run. The defense would then know, when Scott enters the game its going to be a pass. Not a very smart move. Tbh, the first 8gms of the season, Stover looked amazing, but he clearly was injured towards the end of the season. Stover was the pass catching TE all season, and Rossi was used as the blocking TE. When healthy, Scott wouldn't beat either out. Stover was a competent enough blocker to go with catching, and Scott only had one of those traits.
Maybe next year things change. I'm all for Scott getting more PT, when he made the position change I was excited at what he could possibly do. But in the back of my mind I was always worried about his ability(more his willingness) to block. That's the #1 trait of an OSU TE, like it or not.
 
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The more I think of it the more I believe we need injury management to be one of our focal points.

The schedule next season is very difficult and we can't afford to play ND without our best players.

That means getting our starters out as early as possible. That means sitting starters vs the Youngstown States and Indianas and that means backing off in practice some. I know we focused on toughness this past off season but this is football all these kids are tough. Running into each other full speed all off season isn't going to help create toughness IMO.

In 2021, it wasn't toughness that lost us that game vs ttun it was scheme and player availability (Stover was moved to LB). Same thing for 2022, we lost that game because we blew assignments 5x but it wasn't because we werent tough.

Bottom line, I hope consider the following.

1. Limit the players contact in practice (particularly kids who have played a lot).

2. Get the starters out of the game as early as possible. Against YSU, is there really a need to play Marvin at all nevermind when it's 28-0 in the 1st? Even when it's 35-14 against teams like Sparty early in the 3rd I wish we'd situationally substitute our best players. There's no need for Miyan or Henderson when we have Dallan for another example.

3. Consider sitting kids completely for games if they're iffy. Shit, just dress kids and have a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of situation. Did we really need to play Jaxon vs Toledo or even Iowa for example? No. They should've dressed him and kept him on the sidelines in case things got hairy. Did Trey even need to play vs Toledo? Did Miyan even need to play for Indiana?


I get kids want to play, get stats, etc... but there should be some risk management here that we just completely failed to do this season. IMO, this is what cost us our season. We would've walked to a Natty this year with 11/18/2/32/3/8 all healthy when it mattered. There's just no point to play anyone vs the Toledos or the YSUs of the schedule.
 
Upvote 0
cdiddy70 said:
"If the young WRs aren't ready, they're not ready. Should Hartline just play guys to keep them happy, even if he doesn't think that they're ready to play? If that causes someone to leave, then so be it"

If he can't get one of a handful of highly rated young wr's ready then there is something wrong with his evaluation or coaching. It's his job to get them ready. Frankly getting a young WR "ready" should be the easiest position on the field to do so. When I say ready I mean for a handful of snaps.
There isn't an NFL team or NCAA team that plays WR's literally 100% of the snaps until the game is out of hand.
Your missing the point it would be good for the starters, the team, and the morale of the younger players.
You think Marv and EE are selling out blocking in the 4th quarter after they played every snap and just run a post?
You don't think they would be even more effective if they could catch a few plays of rest.
You don't think it should be a reasonable expectation that hartline should have a 4th wr "ready" to spot spell starters for 5 snaps a game.
Hartline is going to have a real issue going forward if he persists and only playing 3.
With the portal if you aren't in the top 3 or don't see being in the top 3 then the portal becomes attractive.

And on Scott I wasn't suggesting he should be an every down TE.
Just have some packages for him in passing situations.
We proved all year there were only 3 WR's capable of seeing the field.
There were certainly situations where a pass catching TE could be deployed.
Click to expand...
Right on point about the WRs, you can play four WRs ..you can have 4 wide outs on the field over a te that struggles getting open.
 
Upvote 0
Captain Buckeye said:
The more I think of it the more I believe we need injury management to be one of our focal points.

The schedule next season is very difficult and we can't afford to play ND without our best players.

That means getting our starters out as early as possible. That means sitting starters vs the Youngstown States and Indianas and that means backing off in practice some. I know we focused on toughness this past off season but this is football all these kids are tough. Running into each other full speed all off season isn't going to help create toughness IMO.

In 2021, it wasn't toughness that lost us that game vs ttun it was scheme and player availability (Stover was moved to LB). Same thing for 2022, we lost that game because we blew assignments 5x but it wasn't because we werent tough.

Bottom line, I hope consider the following.

1. Limit the players contact in practice (particularly kids who have played a lot).

2. Get the starters out of the game as early as possible. Against YSU, is there really a need to play Marvin at all nevermind when it's 28-0 in the 1st? Even when it's 35-14 against teams like Sparty early in the 3rd I wish we'd situationally substitute our best players. There's no need for Miyan or Henderson when we have Dallan for another example.

3. Consider sitting kids completely for games if they're iffy. Shit, just dress kids and have a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of situation. Did we really need to play Jaxon vs Toledo or even Iowa for example? No. They should've dressed him and kept him on the sidelines in case things got hairy. Did Trey even need to play vs Toledo? Did Miyan even need to play for Indiana?


I get kids want to play, get stats, etc... but there should be some risk management here that we just completely failed to do this season. IMO, this is what cost us our season. We would've walked to a Natty this year with 11/18/2/32/3/8 all healthy when it mattered. There's just no point to play anyone vs the Toledos or the YSUs of the schedule.
Click to expand...

2021 was a toughness issue, IMO. For as good as the offense was, they resembled a Big 12 team. If you took scarlet and gray off the jerseys, I thought I was watching fakeOK St or Texas Tech playing with the reliance on passing, and inability to run the ball. Yes, assignments were blown, but the team was soft. And 2022 Day at least made an attempt to make the team tougher. And the run game did improve, and the team did look tougher.
2022 was a freak year for injuries for OSU. It happens in football. I don't know how much load management would help with some of the freak injuries that wouldn't go away for guys like JSN, Henderson, Williams, Royer(injuries and family/mental issues), Burke, and Hall.
I like limiting players who've played a lot, didn't Urban call the experienced guys some club?
I put my trust in the coaches, but I too wonder why starters are needed for most of the game, let alone until the half. I would've much preferred seeing McCord throwing to Ballard and some of the freshman, and handing off to Hayden. With the inexperienced OL getting needed reps.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Just a side note:
Not sure where it belongs.
File it under Hartline needs to play more WR’s.
I’m not buying “they aren’t ready”.

Jamo had 9 catches his 2nd year.
1 year later he is the best player on Bama and the 10th pick in the draft with a torn ACL.
Click to expand...
Jamo played a lot of snaps though. So that was more of them not designing plays for him. Fields not throwing him the ball or the Olave/Wilson just being open before they got to him on the progression.
 
Upvote 0
cdiddy70 said:
Just a side note:
Not sure where it belongs.
File it under Hartline needs to play more WR’s.
I’m not buying “they aren’t ready”.

Jamo had 9 catches his 2nd year.
1 year later he is the best player on Bama and the 10th pick in the draft with a torn ACL.
Click to expand...

The reason Jamo barely played is because of the men, and none of them are named Brian Hartline- Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson and JSN. Who would you replace for Jamo? Who at the time, and even at Bama was a one trick pony of just running deep. Jamo got snaps, but was severely limited in his WR skills. Bama tried to utilize Burton in the same way in 2022, and he couldn't do the same things Jamo could do, because he didn't have that speed

2018 receiving stats
Parris Campbell 90 1063 12
K.J. Hill 70 885 6
Johnnie Dixon 42 669 8
Terry McLaurin 35 701 11
Austin Mack 26 331 1
Binjimen Victor 21 354 4

2019 receiving stats
Chris Olave 48 840 12
K.J. Hill 57 636 10
Binjimen Victor 35 573 6
Garrett Wilson 30 432 5
Austin Mack 27 361 3

This is the WR stats of the top WRs under Hartline's 1st 2 years on the job. If a player is ready, he has had no problem playing them
 
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