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Next Year

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"Who at the time, and even at Bama was a one trick pony of just running deep."

No he wasn't.
Again he was the 10th pick in the draft with a torn ACL that would keep him out basically all of his rookie season.

Look at 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Something changed.
The 4th wr was no longer used. Despite being absurdly talented albeit young.

Certainly you not saying a guy like Marvin Harrison wasn't ready in 2021.
Starting in 2020 we started using 3 or 2 WR's almost exclusively in non-mop up.

The stats to posted from earlier actually show way less talented 4th and 5th WR's playing.

It's almost like a decision was made that if the starting wr's are elite they are not coming off the field ever as long as they can breathe.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
yeah but we can also agree our pass defense was something worse than fucking awful so...
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Little did we know that can you run with man down field in man to man was a question we needed to ask. Getting lost in a zone in a new D I get. But man just run with your man was never something I was concerned about till the last 2 years.
 
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dragurd said:
Little did we know that can you run with man down field in man to man was a question we needed to ask. Getting lost in a zone in a new D I get. But man just run with your man was never something I was concerned about till the last 2 years.
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I looked it up, it isn’t against the rules to do so.
 
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pnuts34 said:
The reason Jamo barely played is because of the men, and none of them are named Brian Hartline- Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson and JSN. Who would you replace for Jamo? Who at the time, and even at Bama was a one trick pony of just running deep. Jamo got snaps, but was severely limited in his WR skills. Bama tried to utilize Burton in the same way in 2022, and he couldn't do the same things Jamo could do, because he didn't have that speed

2018 receiving stats
Parris Campbell 90 1063 12
K.J. Hill 70 885 6
Johnnie Dixon 42 669 8
Terry McLaurin 35 701 11
Austin Mack 26 331 1
Binjimen Victor 21 354 4

2019 receiving stats
Chris Olave 48 840 12
K.J. Hill 57 636 10
Binjimen Victor 35 573 6
Garrett Wilson 30 432 5
Austin Mack 27 361 3

This is the WR stats of the top WRs under Hartline's 1st 2 years on the job. If a player is ready, he has had no problem playing them
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Notice how in 2018 it was mainly 6, 2019 it went to 5, in 2020-2022 its been mainly 3.

Little by little his rotation has gotten smaller every year. Again, why recruit 4 WRs a year if we're not going to use them.

I also don't buy "not ready". Yeah they aren't ready for Penn State but let's be real they're more than ready for Arkansas State.
 
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cdiddy70 said:
"Who at the time, and even at Bama was a one trick pony of just running deep."

No he wasn't.
Again he was the 10th pick in the draft with a torn ACL that would keep him out basically all of his rookie season.

Look at 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Something changed.
The 4th wr was no longer used. Despite being absurdly talented albeit young.

Certainly you not saying a guy like Marvin Harrison wasn't ready in 2021.
Starting in 2020 we started using 3 or 2 WR's almost exclusively in non-mop up.

The stats to posted from earlier actually show way less talented 4th and 5th WR's playing.

It's almost like a decision was made that if the starting wr's are elite they are not coming off the field ever as long as they can breathe.
Click to expand...

I don't want to derail this thread to being about a player who left the program. But I'll say that if you look at all of his NFL draft profiles, he's compared to Desean Jackson. Another player with little route running skills, but could always find an NFL job due to speed and being able to take the top off a defense. Williams was very similar to Devin Smith, experts in fly and post routes, but little else.

2020 was a year I don't think any of us want to go back to, and a year that shouldn't be used for any type of comparison. Especially with the conferences being so uneven in their rules on playing games due to Covid.
But it is weird to recruit so many WRs, only to play the starters all year

Captain Buckeye said:
Notice how in 2018 it was mainly 6, 2019 it went to 5, in 2020-2022 its been mainly 3.

Little by little his rotation has gotten smaller every year. Again, why recruit 4 WRs a year if we're not going to use them.

I also don't buy "not ready". Yeah they aren't ready for Penn State but let's be real they're more than ready for Arkansas State.
Click to expand...
I hear you and @cdiddy70 there, not sure why Hartline is holding back some of the younger WRs. In the current Portal climate, you can't keep guys on the roster like that. OSU will be fine next year if they lose a few because of the exceptional frosh '23 class. But not sure how that is sustainable
 
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cdiddy70 said:
Look at 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Something changed.
The 4th wr was no longer used. Despite being absurdly talented albeit young.

Certainly you not saying a guy like Marvin Harrison wasn't ready in 2021.
Click to expand...

By the end of the season he was, but even the best WRs take time to develop. JSN didn't play significantly in 2020 either. Even with super talented guys, there's a big drop-off between starting juniors ready to play in the NFL and them as 18-19 year olds.

Plus, I think it's only fair to consider the limited playing time and very limited practice time these guys saw in 2020. Probably added to the issues with depth for a lot of teams.


pnuts34 said:
I don't want to derail this thread to being about a player who left the program. But I'll say that if you look at all of his NFL draft profiles, he's compared to Desean Jackson. Another player with little route running skills, but could always find an NFL job due to speed and being able to take the top off a defense. Williams was very similar to Devin Smith, experts in fly and post routes, but little else.

2020 was a year I don't think any of us want to go back to, and a year that shouldn't be used for any type of comparison. Especially with the conferences being so uneven in their rules on playing games due to Covid.
But it is weird to recruit so many WRs, only to play the starters all year


I hear you and @cdiddy70 there, not sure why Hartline is holding back some of the younger WRs. In the current Portal climate, you can't keep guys on the roster like that. OSU will be fine next year if they lose a few because of the exceptional frosh '23 class. But not sure how that is sustainable
Click to expand...

No way to know for sure, but it's hard to justify taking 3 first round picks off the field for an athletic, but raw Fleming and 3 freshman. MHJr. looked human against Nebraska last year. I agree there could've been a bit more rotation, but last year it was hard to do it when it felt like they needed 45 in any meaningful game.

This year it was more a matter of not having the experienced depth like '18 & '19, because to be fair, the really stacked WR classes just started with EE and MHJr and they're both starting now. IMO, once in a while you're going to have guys (Inniss maybe) who are ready to play significant snaps as freshman, but it's usually going to take talented guys a year or two to be as precise and reliable as needed in OSU's offense. Give it another season or 2 and while you'll still see some transfers, you'll also see a lot more rotation once these classes all get on campus.
 
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pnuts34 said:
I don't want to derail this thread to being about a player who left the program. But I'll say that if you look at all of his NFL draft profiles, he's compared to Desean Jackson. Another player with little route running skills, but could always find an NFL job due to speed and being able to take the top off a defense. Williams was very similar to Devin Smith, experts in fly and post routes, but little else.

2020 was a year I don't think any of us want to go back to, and a year that shouldn't be used for any type of comparison. Especially with the conferences being so uneven in their rules on playing games due to Covid.
But it is weird to recruit so many WRs, only to play the starters all year


I hear you and @cdiddy70 there, not sure why Hartline is holding back some of the younger WRs. In the current Portal climate, you can't keep guys on the roster like that. OSU will be fine next year if they lose a few because of the exceptional frosh '23 class. But not sure how that is sustainable
Click to expand...
I think Hartline is not playing freshman because they aren't as good as Egbuka and Harrison. So I mean who could blame him for that. However eventually he's not going to have those 2 and it'd be nice to have more depth.

The majority of the reps vs overmatched teams shouldn't go to Marvin or Emeka. Those games should go to the younger guys because we should want a fresh starting group vs ND, vs Penn State or vs Michigan.

It was said that Egbula barely was holding on by the end of the year. Then these guys get a few weeks off and they look like different players.

I love Hartline and yeah I know he's forgot more about football than I know but I 100% believe he's wrong for how he manages the rotation in games vs lesser opponents. I also agree that be probably could've held onto Jamo had he prioritized him even a little bit while he was here. I get we had Olave and Wilson but Jamo proved he can do the same things given the opportunity. Sometimes that's all these kids need is an opportunity.
 
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"I think Hartline is not playing freshman because they aren't as good as Egbuka and Harrison. So I mean who could blame him for that. However eventually he's not going to have those 2 and it'd be nice to have more depth."

Completely miss the point.
Nobody is saying they other WR's should play as much as Marv or EE, or even more then 10 snaps.
The point is that no WR's on the planet NCAA or NFL play 100% of snaps.
Not because they aren't better then the back ups but they need to take at least a handful of plays off every game.
You can't run a post expect to then run a post on the next play or even be engaged in blocking on a run play.
I forget there was a game this year where Marv was completely gassed and on the next play the announcer made a point of saying Marv wasn't going to be involved in the next play. Sure enough he went 1/2 speed on his route.
And spare my the gibberish about "not being ready". If you can't get a one freaking wr out of handful of highly regarded players behind the top 3(the easiest position in the sport to be ready quickly and early in your career) to run a handful of plays a game then your approach is flawed.

I posit we played more WR under Urban because he truly meant you weren't playing if you don't block.
He was a former WR coach and a son of a bitch.
As Hartline & Day move away from Urban's shadow the mantra about WR blocking is mainly lip service.
It maybe why we can't execute a bubble screen.
 
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