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Negative Recruiting/PSU chatter (LJ Sr. Thread split)

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Ohio State has a four-coach bridge back to the 1950s that consists of Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, John Cooper, and Jim Tressel, all Hall of Fame coaches, and all fired for offenses that could be categorized as lack of personal responsibility or integrity. Somehow we've all moved on.

Larry Johnson can hold a Black Panther rally in Mirror Lake for all I care as long as he wins recruiting, wins on the field, and represents the University with dignity and grace.
 
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Dryden said:
Ohio State has a four-coach bridge back to the 1950s that consists of Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, John Cooper, and Jim Tressel, all Hall of Fame coaches, and all fired for offenses that could be categorized as lack of personal responsibility or integrity. Somehow we've all moved on.

Larry Johnson can hold a Black Panther rally in Mirror Lake for all I care as long as he wins recruiting, wins on the field, and represents the University with dignity and grace.
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I will not "move on" until we have all the FAX and EVIDENTS!!!
 
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Muck said:
I give a sh1t. To me integrity is more important than winning football games.
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Ever since JT got canned, I've given approximately zero fucks about integrity. Watching other fan bases around the B1G act like Ohio State was some rogue program and Tressel some ruthless con man who only gave a damn about winning pissed me off to no end. Urban Meyer is basically the boogie man everyone else around the B1G feared JT to be and I love it. Urban gives no fucks about recruiting a prospect that's already committed, he gives zero fucks about running up the score, and he gives -393645 fucks about stealing other players coaches.

Urban's going have fan bases around the B1G longing for the days when Ohio State would "only" beat their teams by 2 or 3TDs. 24-2 was just the beginning.
 
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I completely understand not caring about integrity of coaches for the most part. I often don't really give a shit about what coaches do if it's in their personal time and not related to what they do while on the clock. This was on the clock. And I also tend to take exception to instigating racial tensions with 17 year old kids when they are making a life-changing decision. I just think there is no room in college sports for that.

Frankly, I would just as rather have Lane Kiffin fill this position if he coached the defensive line.
 
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RB07OSU said:
And I also tend to take exception to instigating racial tensions with 17 year old kids when they are making a life-changing decision.
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I think you're being overly dramatic on this point- particularly because I am assuming you don't have specific knowledge of exactly what was said between Johnson and the players in question.

Given the "Youngstown Boys" documentary that was just released, would it be reasonable to believe that the Clarett situation is an example that Johnson used of Ohio State "not taking care of its black athletes" or whatever the specific allegation of what was said is?

We also know that Paterno funneled kids to branch campuses for years and had absolutely no academic or any other oversight of the football program from the University. We know that Paterno leaned on teachers regarding grades and got people fired when they tried to increase the University's oversight of the things he was doing.

In the twisted world of the Penn State cult, isn't that "taking care" of players at a level that other schools just couldn't offer?

Right or wrong, it seems reasonable to me to think that Johnson was playing the hand he was dealt to the best of his ability. The circumstances he was working with are undoubtedly tainted by the disgusting cult atmosphere Paterno cultivated and I think that will be what I am most looking forward to Johnson separating himself from, but once again, unless you can come up with a detailed script of what he was telling these players, I think you are being extremely over the top with this criticism.
 
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To add, I also find the idea that telling an African American teenager that they might be treated differently at different Universities would somehow surprise them and "instigate racial tensions" to be humorous.

Are we living in a Fox News world where racism doesn't exist and talking about it is the biggest sin?

I'm fairly confident that they were already aware of the challenges they face as an African American in the United States- heaven forbid that Larry Johnson Sr. bond with them over those challenges and offer to be their mentor through the process.

Regarding the idea that Ohio State doesn't treat their athletes fairly, I obviously disagree strongly with that, but the Clarett situation would have given him plenty of ammo at the time.

Bringing race as a motivating factor into the Clarett discussion in the first place is unwarranted and untrue, but that seems like worst case scenario to me.

To reiterate, without specific knowledge of exactly what he told the kids, isn't him telling players that he personally would be a better mentor to them than any other school could offer, or anyone else on the Penn State staff would be (which is another allegation I've seen on this board) because of the unique challenges they face as African Americans and his extensive experience as a mentor a more reasonable conclusion to reach than he was instigating race riots?

Does Ted Ginn Sr "instigate racial tension" if he tells a kid that he'd be better off at Glenville under his guidance than at St. Eds or St. Ignatius?
 
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How much "integrity" do you have when you lie to kids about race issues at a university? When you participate in the enabling of a molester for over a decade? All "justified" in the name of winning.
Our team will be a better team because of him and coach Ash. But every time I hear his name or see his face on tv, my stomach will turn. I will be reminded of his actions or inactions at his last stop for over a decade.
 
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MD Buckeye said:
Then it's nothing but negative recruiting....which every program in the country uses at some point in time. His comments obviously didn't kill Ohio State's recruiting.
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THIS!!! I can't believe how naive some are on this board. As if our coaches are always perfect with regards to ethics in recruiting. Give me a break! The problem is that some people work themselves into hating coaches from other programs for various reasons (all the while thinking their own coaches are saints) and then it comes back to bite them when those coaches come on board the team they follow. Same thing happens in pro sports when your hated rival is traded to the team you love.

This is why I try not to get emotionally wrapped up in being a hater. Sports today at the college and pro level are too fluid for that and besides its much easier to assume a little bit of guilt in everyone with regards to things like recruiting. It's a dog fight out there for the top recruits and anyone that thinks you survive/thrive with a Mr. Rogers approach is fooling themselves.

Whether its sharing a "dream" you had with a recruit or playing the race card, it happens. I bet most on this board would be happy to tell Deshaun Watson all about how their pancakes at Denny's this morning looked just like his face if it would have helped bring him aboard. And if it meant a promotion up the coaching ladder? I bet those damned pancakes were singing too.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
To add, I also find the idea that telling an African American teenager that they might be treated differently at different Universities would somehow surprise them and "instigate racial tensions" to be humorous.

Are we living in a Fox News world where racism doesn't exist and talking about it is the biggest sin?

I'm fairly confident that they were already aware of the challenges they face as an African American in the United States- heaven forbid that Larry Johnson Sr. bond with them over those challenges and offer to be their mentor through the process.

Regarding the idea that Ohio State doesn't treat their athletes fairly, I obviously disagree strongly with that, but the Clarett situation would have given him plenty of ammo at the time.

Bringing race as a motivating factor into the Clarett discussion in the first place is unwarranted and untrue, but that seems like worst case scenario to me.

To reiterate, without specific knowledge of exactly what he told the kids, isn't him telling players that he personally would be a better mentor to them than any other school could offer, or anyone else on the Penn State staff would be (which is another allegation I've seen on this board) because of the unique challenges they face as African Americans and his extensive experience as a mentor a more reasonable conclusion to reach than he was instigating race riots?

Does Ted Ginn Sr "instigate racial tension" if he tells a kid that he'd be better off at Glenville under his guidance than at St. Eds or St. Ignatius?
Click to expand...
 
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Taosman said:
How much "integrity" do you have when you lie to kids about race issues at a university?
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How much "integrity" do you have when you get fired from a job because you lied to the NCAA over infractions you knew to have happened under your watch?

If this kind of stuff gets your stomach turning you are probably not going to enjoy football very much as more and more things of this nature come to light.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
To add, I also find the idea that telling an African American teenager that they might be treated differently at different Universities would somehow surprise them and "instigate racial tensions" to be humorous.

Are we living in a Fox News world where racism doesn't exist and talking about it is the biggest sin?

I'm fairly confident that they were already aware of the challenges they face as an African American in the United States- heaven forbid that Larry Johnson Sr. bond with them over those challenges and offer to be their mentor through the process.

Regarding the idea that Ohio State doesn't treat their athletes fairly, I obviously disagree strongly with that, but the Clarett situation would have given him plenty of ammo at the time.

Bringing race as a motivating factor into the Clarett discussion in the first place is unwarranted and untrue, but that seems like worst case scenario to me.

To reiterate, without specific knowledge of exactly what he told the kids, isn't him telling players that he personally would be a better mentor to them than any other school could offer, or anyone else on the Penn State staff would be (which is another allegation I've seen on this board) because of the unique challenges they face as African Americans and his extensive experience as a mentor a more reasonable conclusion to reach than he was instigating race riots?

Does Ted Ginn Sr "instigate racial tension" if he tells a kid that he'd be better off at Glenville under his guidance than at St. Eds or St. Ignatius?
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Outstanding post.

Some of these people on here really surprised me with this moral high horse crap. Do you not realize that this is big boy football and things like this happen, image what they say to the kids down in the $EC. I think its incredibly weak to try to single out this man for something he may or may not have done when this goes on all over country and is way more vicious.

Plus if this was such an issue, don't you think the PSU elite would have objected to those tactics?

Furthermore, if you guys are so concerned about integrity, go watch IVY League football.

You guys need to let that stuff go
 
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Jaxbuck said:
If this kind of stuff gets your stomach turning you are probably not going to enjoy football very much as more and more things of this nature come to light.
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Truth be told, I don't enjoy college football as much as I used to (lost interest in the NFL long ago). It's still my favorite sport, though. Maybe the reason I rebounded almost instantly from our last two losses was because the annual, incessant influx of toxic NCAA news has blunted my emotional attachment to the sport. I still find the drama that unfolds on-field each season to be compelling. I just don't let the outcomes break my heart.

Personally, I don't care what LJ said on the recruiting trail. Guess I accept that that's a down and dirty, eye-gouging, back-stabbing, may the best man win, no rules street fight. I will, however, personally never be 100% with bringing anyone on board who was satisfied to spend years paddling around in that cesspit in PA. That's just me. But, the deal is done, and it's not the first time I've disagreed with the decision of the Bucks' HC.

I'll still be watching when they run on the field next season. Will I love every member of the team & staff equally? Never have before. Why start now?
 
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