ND at MSU, Time for the BIG to get Serious

[Buckeye86]

Sad when this is the game that can "rescue" the conference in terms of national respect.

Does anyone truly believe that Michigan State winning this game is going to make even the tiniest dent in the "Big Ten stinks" national narrative?

The Big Ten's "national respect" has gone down the drain ever since Jim Delany told ESPN to pound sand when he started the Big Ten Network.

Granted, the on field product has given the talking heads plenty of ammunition, but Big Ten football is not nearly as bad as the national perception currently makes it out to be.

All victories will be marginalized and all defeats will be amplified in accordance with the already established narrative driven by ESPNs agenda.

For example: Will Northwestern defeating Vanderbilt by a larger margin than top ten South Carolina did the previous week be talked about more or less than top ten Arkansas losing to LA Monroe?

Trick question, neither topic of discussion will be brought up.

 

[ochre]

I can't lie that the way ND handled some things was innapropriate to say the least but I just don't want anyone's death to be a punch line. They're human beings.

The tale allegation thing is what has me speechless. We never really heard any updates on that and it something that needs to be accounted for.

it's not a punchline. It's a statement about the integrity a particular football coach has shown. Personally, I don't find it a bit funny. Pathetic (said coach's integrity) is more the word I'd use.

 

[Mike80]

Does anyone truly believe that Michigan State winning this game is going to make even the tiniest dent in the "Big Ten stinks" national narrative?

The Big Ten's "national respect" has gone down the drain ever since Jim Delany told ESPN to pound sand when he started the Big Ten Network.

Granted, the on field product has given the talking heads plenty of ammunition, but Big Ten football is not nearly as bad as the national perception currently makes it out to be.

All victories will be marginalized and all defeats will be amplified in accordance with the already established narrative driven by ESPNs agenda.

For example: Will Northwestern defeating Vanderbilt by a larger margin than top ten South Carolina did the previous week be talked about more or less than top ten Arkansas losing to LA Monroe?

Trick question, neither topic of discussion will be brought up.

Emphasis on the bolded - it doesn't matter what the Big Ten does or does not do right now, the teams just need to go out and take care of business.

Espin drives the perceptions for the FANS. The voters aren't swayed so easily. Even the espin AP voters don't necessarily toe the line that is spouted by such idiots as MarkMayblew5dudesatPitt and the rest of the morons.

 

[BUCKYLE]

You guys really need to stop making scissor lift jokes. For the love of Hod, a person died and people poke in at it. His name is Declan Sullivan and some people use his death as a punch line. I have no problem if you don't like Brian Kelly. In fact, I don't even like the guy that much. I don't even care that you hate Notre Dame. But please stop making jokes about a kid who is no longer with us. He has parents. How would you feel if you lost a kid and saw people using his death as a cheap joke? I could care less about the Notre Dams hatred. I even understand some of it. But show some respect.

Your coach killed that kid. Where's your outrage about that?

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

You know a MAC school that will jump 10 spots in the rankings with two wins at the beginning of the season? You know a MAC school that can beat Purdue and make the cover of SI? When you walk around in NYC, Boston, DC, San Francisco, LA, Denver, Chicago, Miami, Phoneix, New Orleans, Honolulu do you see fifty folks wearing Toledo/Central Michigan/et al hats?

My point exactly.

fify

Quite a few dome-heads out here...

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Does anyone truly believe that Michigan State winning this game is going to make even the tiniest dent in the "Big Ten stinks" national narrative?

No, but losing it will add even more fire to it, particularly if ND ends up crapping the bed later in the season.

No one game--not even bama-UM--is going to turn the tide of perception. What the Big Ten needs to start doing though is at least splitting (and playing well in the losses) against elite OOC teams combined with a decent winning percentage against all BCS teams (and I'd put ND in this catagory) and very few upsets to MAC type teams over a few years.

 

[Buckeye86]

No, but losing it will add even more fire to it, particularly if ND ends up crapping the bed later in the season.

No one game--not even bama-UM--is going to turn the tide of perception. What the Big Ten needs to start doing though is at least splitting (and playing well in the losses) against elite OOC teams combined with a decent winning percentage against all BCS teams (and I'd put ND in this catagory) and very few upsets to MAC type teams over a few years.

Even then, I don't think the narrative will change from those predisposed to hate on all things Big 10. This obviously wouldn't matter if it were only a few people here and then, but when it is so abundantly clear that ESPN blatantly pushes that narrative (once again, see the Chicago Tribune article I linked above) it seems like a losing battle regardless of the on-field results.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Even then, I don't think the narrative will change from those predisposed to hate on all things Big 10. This obviously wouldn't matter if it were only a few people here and then, but when it is so abundantly clear that ESPN blatantly pushes that narrative (once again, see the Chicago Tribune article I linked above) it seems like a losing battle regardless of the on-field results.

Nothing can be done about the ESPN agenda. It is fueled entirely on conflicting business interests. It doesn't help though to make it easy for them (1-6 last week against BCS opponents).

It took time to get for things to get as bad as they have, and it'll take a couple of seasons of consistent winning to start to reverse them. That winning has to start some time.

Right now it's all an abstract argument , but just wait until Ohio State misses the NC game or playoff based on strength of schedule (i.e. perceptions of conference strength).

 

[Buckeye86]

It took time to get for things to get as bad as they have, and it'll take a couple of seasons of consistent winning to start to reverse them. That winning has to start some time.

Based on coaching moves, it seems like Ohio State and Michigan are going to carry the water for the entire conference into the foreseeable future.

I have said many times that I think Hoke can get Michigan back to Carr level success- which means consistently going 9-3 and winning a bowl game if they are lucky.

Dantonio has Michigan State heading in the right direction, but he is not getting any younger and they will almost certainly Sparty the hiring of his replacement. Nebraska doesn't look like they are going to be elite anytime soon. Can Beckman take Illinois anywhere? That seems like wishful thinking at this point.

Penn State is arguably worse than Indiana now and will be for the next decade. Bielema is a joke at Wisconsin that continuously embarrasses on the big stage- I don't see that changing anytime soon. Iowa is good once every four or five years under Ferentz- B1G COY! The Hawkeyes might upset some opponents in middle-tier bowls every once and awhile.

Northwestern will be a solid middle-of-the-pack team as long as Fitzgerald is there. Purdue will be lucky if they can consistently place in the middle of the conference. Minnesota will have to pull a miracle to get back to the level that Mason had them at. And Indiana will never, ever be good at football.

Right now it's all an abstract argument , but just wait until Ohio State misses the NC game or playoff based on strength of schedule (i.e. perceptions of conference strength).

If Ohio State goes 12-0, gets left out of the national championship equation, and wins their bowl game to go 13-0 I would be perfectly happy with that.

I don't think it's realistic to expect much from the conference unless they start spending SEC dollars on coaches.

 

[NFBuck]

It looks to me like the B1G is gonna be down for a while. tOSU will be a national power again. After that?

scUM: While better than the dickrod years, they look pretty mediocre this year with a soft defense, a confused offense, and no threats beside hairlice. Next year, they'll be rebuilding with a new QB. They have to chose between Gardner, who has given no indication he's a legit qb; Russell Bellomy, a low 3* kid with marginal talent; and Jersey Shore, who's incredibly raw. In a couple years, Fat Garbageman's recruiting will likely start to pay off. But, they look to be a couple of years from possibly being a national player.

Sparty: Probably the class of the conference this year. But, Fat Garbageman is going to dig into their recruiting base. And, lets be realistic. Even during their back-to-back 11 win seasons, have they really looked like a national player? I think they slide back to second tier status next year once Le'Veon Bell goes.

Wiscy: They look lost after so much attrition. It's looking like Chryst was the architect of their dominant offenses in '10 & '11. Biff is a mediocre coach who surrounded himself with some good coaches. Not sure he can find that again. O'Brien is clearly no Russell Wilson, or even Scott Tolzien.

Ped Aggy: They're irrelevant for the next decade.

Illinois: Jury's out on Beckman, but Zook's last 3-4 recruiting classes were pretty bad, and Beckman's recruiting thus far hasn't been any better. Besides...they're Illinois, history says best they can hope for is a bunch of middle of the pack seasons, with maybe an occasional good year every 5-7 years.

Nebraska: Tom Osborne is a distant memory. I don't think Pelini gets them over the BCS hump.

Iowa: Similar to Illinois. Good for a few middling seasons, every 5-6 years Ferentz seems to get a decent team capable of 9-10 wins.

Purdue, Northwestern, Minny, Indiana? Puuuuuhleeeeeze.


The conference is weak. It's a good thing the playoffs aren't far off.

 

[Buckeye86]

It looks to me like the B1G is gonna be down for a while. tOSU will be a national power again. After that?

scUM: While better than the dickrod years, they look pretty mediocre this year with a soft defense, a confused offense, and no threats beside hairlice. Next year, they'll be rebuilding with a new QB. They have to chose between Gardner, who has given no indication he's a legit qb; Russell Bellomy, a low 3* kid with marginal talent; and Jersey Shore, who's incredibly raw. In a couple years, Fat Garbageman's recruiting will likely start to pay off. But, they look to be a couple of years from possibly being a national player.

Sparty: Probably the class of the conference this year. But, Fat Garbageman is going to dig into their recruiting base. And, lets be realistic. Even during their back-to-back 11 win seasons, have they really looked like a national player? I think they slide back to second tier status next year once Le'Veon Bell goes.

Wiscy: They look lost after so much attrition. It's looking like Chryst was the architect of their dominant offenses in '10 & '11. Biff is a mediocre coach who surrounded himself with some good coaches. Not sure he can find that again. O'Brien is clearly no Russell Wilson, or even Scott Tolzien.

Ped Aggy: They're irrelevant for the next decade.

Illinois: Jury's out on Beckman, but Zook's last 3-4 recruiting classes were pretty bad, and Beckman's recruiting thus far hasn't been any better. Besides...they're Illinois, history says best they can hope for is a bunch of middle of the pack seasons, with maybe an occasional good year every 5-7 years.

Nebraska: Tom Osborne is a distant memory. I don't think Pelini gets them over the BCS hump.

Iowa: Similar to Illinois. Good for a few middling seasons, every 5-6 years Ferentz seems to get a decent team capable of 9-10 wins.

Purdue, Northwestern, Minny, Indiana? Puuuuuhleeeeeze.


The conference is weak. It's a good thing the playoffs aren't far off.

Great minds think alike?

 

[A Pac]

Your coach killed that kid. Where's your outrage about that?

Of course I was outraged about it. I said at the time that all legal matters should be handled fairly. At one point I called for his job and legal action against him. Nothing has changed the way I feel about him. He doesn't seem like a good person.

 

[NFBuck]

Great minds think alike?

FACTS and EVIDENTS!

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

My opinion has come around to the idea that the 10 year war was bad for the conference in the long term.

Before it, the conference was pretty balanced, somewhat similar to how the SEC is today in terms of a balance between power programs and yearly parity. Ohio State and Michigan were the two dominant powers but numerous other schools (pretty much all but IU and NW) were competitive and would rise up for 3-4 year periods and play at the level of OSU-UM and even compete for or win national championships. None of those programs other than Wiscy has every truly recovered from those 10 (really 15) years of being relegated to also ran status and getting blown out on the field consistently by the Big Two.

 

[jwinslow]

It's all Jim Tressel's fault.